What do you like about Fading Suns?
Being Dune-ish space opera with handy White Wolf-like splats is what I best love and what I hate the most about Fading Suns. But then I never got to actually play it beyond character generation.
I liked the PC strategy game.
It was insane. It was like Empire on a bunch of different planets at once.
As to the RPG, it was a neat setting, but like a lot of RPGs with neat settings, I had no idea how you were supposed to play it. Like Rifts or Vampire, I never really grokked what you were supposed to do.
The idea of mixed tech levels, noble houses in space, four armed wookies! There was a lot to love about this game, but I didn't know what to do with it, either. I also had trouble coming up with why a noble, a merchant, and a flamethrower-wielding religious zealot would EVER hang out long enough to get any adventuring done.
I've run lots of Fading Suns and look forward to more in the future. What do you want to know about the game?
BTW, if anyone is a D20 fan, the D20 Fading Suns is good, and that's coming from someone who doesn't prefer D20.
I missed out on it. It was 1996 and I went into a local shop to find a new RPG, having tried a few other games and played an endless amount of AD&D2E. I remember thumbing through the book and being interested, but something else ended up catching my eye instead.
Apparently there was a new version recently.
http://fadingsuns.fasagames.com/fsr-core-rulebooks.html
Quote from: The Butcher;735433Being Dune-ish space opera with handy White Wolf-like splats is what I best love and what I hate the most about Fading Suns. But then I never got to actually play it beyond character generation.
I like the spats in this game a lot better, because they aren't as ideological as the ones in the WoD. They all have practical goals and the relationship between them isn't as central to the game as WoD games. You can easily start a career as a smuggler for the Scrappers and not run into one of the other groups, unless the GM wants to. Or become a mercenary for the Musters, or finding relics for the Eskatonic Order, or become a spy for the Decados etc.
I also like the history of the game. If a game was something like the Age of ... or the ... War, I am usually game for it. Let me see: First Republic, Diaspora, Dark Ages, Emperor Wars, Age of Miracles, Symbiot Wars etc. Yep, I am game. I am a sucker for that stuff. This is also absent in the new WoD, which makes me very upset. :banghead:
Quote from: Patrick;735451The idea of mixed tech levels, noble houses in space, four armed wookies! There was a lot to love about this game, but I didn't know what to do with it, either. I also had trouble coming up with why a noble, a merchant, and a flamethrower-wielding religious zealot would EVER hang out long enough to get any adventuring done.
I guess you gotta have a more cohesive group. All smugglers, nobles or religious fanatics. I always have the same problem with vampire the requiem. In that game your group could exist out of a noble, a Marxist rebel, a religious zealot (burn the witch), another religious zealot (sacrifice the virgin) and an immoral scientist. Good luck with that.
I do like the splats are covering three different bases: merchants, nobles and the church. Very broad indeed.
Quote from: NathanIW;735481I missed out on it. It was 1996 and I went into a local shop to find a new RPG, having tried a few other games and played an endless amount of AD&D2E. I remember thumbing through the book and being interested, but something else ended up catching my eye instead.
Apparently there was a new version recently.
http://fadingsuns.fasagames.com/fsr-core-rulebooks.html
Cool, wasn't this intended to be the Third Edition, but something went wrong?
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735526Cool, wasn't this intended to be the Third Edition, but something went wrong?
I have no idea. Apparently this newer revised edition is 2nd edition but with errata and some planned minor changes.
Quote from: NathanIW;735552I have no idea. Apparently this newer revised edition is 2nd edition but with errata and some planned minor changes.
Correct third edition was being developed, but was canceled. So they reprinted an updated version of second edition.
I bought the D20 stuff a while back, as it looked interesting, but never really dug into it.
Am I missing much from the non-D20 books?
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735659Correct third edition was being developed, but was canceled. So they reprinted an updated version of second edition.
I find FASA a rather confusing company. Look at what happend with Blue Planet before they lost the license. FASA did three books for it and all three were available in different formats (softcover, hardcover, pdf, B&W, full color) and through different channels (DTRPG, FASA shop). Capricious Games got the license and went back to Blue Planet 2E...
You get the impression any FASA gameline or edition may be abandoned prematurely at any moment.
Quote from: kythri;735678I bought the D20 stuff a while back, as it looked interesting, but never really dug into it.
Am I missing much from the non-D20 books?
No idea, but I love your avatar. It's Y-Y-Zed!
Quote from: kythri;735678Am I missing much from the non-D20 books?
Yes and no.
Yes, if you want deeper involvement into the canon of the setting.
No, if you just want to run a D20 Fading Suns campaign for a group who doesn't need more canon than what's in a core book.
Quote from: Spinachcat;735737Yes, if you want deeper involvement into the canon of the setting.
Is the canon interesting at all?
Or is it similar enough to Dune + Stargate with the serial numbers filed off (and other similar stuff) ?
This was a blog I ran in my college years. Each player made an entry for each session: http://morningstarfs.blogspot.com/
I loved it. It is my favorite Sci-Fi RPG setting of all time. I could come back to it 10 years from now and know what I wanted to do with it.
The one downside is that it is indeed too big so you can be a bit overwhelmed with the options you have. I made up for this by having my players make characters that were very much an established crew and had very set goals in mind. We mad the game very episodic. We even had a flashback episode about how each character joined the crew. We RPed it that they were all talking in the galley at a table (just like the players are at a table) and everytime one had a turn to reminisce on how they joined the ship, we would RP that as well, but with preset goals that the characters needed to meet to remember the story right.
The setting had something to interest every player and give their unique character a place, but was consistent enough that they were not confused by what was going on. I had 7 players for this without conflict or too much time wasted. I even had a few players, on their own without provocation, end up having an in character theological debate. The setting was indepth enough that they had all the material they needed to pull this off without thinking about it, and it was interesting enough for them to actually read such material ahead of time.
You like Dune? Play Fading Suns. You like Saga of Galactic Heroes? Play Fading Suns. You like Stargate? Play Fading Suns. You like Warhammer 40k but think it a bit too over the top? Play Fading Suns. Like Firefly? Play Fading Suns. Like Cowboy Bebop? Play Fading Suns. Like cosmic Marvel comic books like Silver Surfer or Guardians of the Galaxy? Play Fading Suns. Etc. Nearly any kind of Sci-Fi genre, including the ones that feel like fantasy like Dune or Book of the New Sun, have a very definitive place in Fading Suns. I even had a session that was completely Noir with everyone wearing suit and ties, even the fire branding inquisitors and the cyborgs were wearing suits like it was a 1940s movie. My players remarked that they were imagining it in black and white that day.
I cannot recommend this setting enough. I will admit, while the system matches the themes of the setting and can capture it quite well, it is very convoluted and crunchy when it comes to combat. That is my glaring flaw with the setting: the system needs a do-over. But most of the books and materials area actually really well written and interesting fluff rather than additional rules, so you won't mind reading them even if your end up with a different rule system for your choice.
Quote from: ggroy;735739Is the canon interesting at all?
That's a hard one for me to answer. I love RPG fiction, I gobble up Warhammer novels, but I'm much less interested in reading canon from splatbooks. For me, Fading Suns canon was a bit more fun to read as some of it was woven into the continuing storyline of an adventuring group.
Quote from: ggroy;735739Or is it similar enough to Dune + Stargate with the serial numbers filed off (and other similar stuff) ?
It's got its own twists, but it doesn't stray too far from its source material. You can certainly run entire campaigns from the core book if you and your players were fine with expanding the IP via your thoughts on Dune and Stargate.
Quote from: 3rik;735679I find FASA a rather confusing company. Look at what happend with Blue Planet before they lost the license. FASA did three books for it and all three were available in different formats (softcover, hardcover, pdf, B&W, full color) and through different channels (DTRPG, FASA shop). Capricious Games got the license and went back to Blue Planet 2E...
You get the impression any FASA gameline or edition may be abandoned prematurely at any moment.
The current group of Line Devs they have for their various lines are a bunch of morons.
I love big settings. I rather have a setting in which you have to pick out what you like (a buffet) and ignore the rest. I don't like the do-it-yourself settings. So in other words I like settings who are subtractive and not additive.
I also really like the three layers in the game. Merchants, nobles and the church. I like the fact they are covering really broad archetypes, while you can still describe them in one sentence. Spanish nobles who are very militairy.
Quote from: Sommerjon;735780The current group of Line Devs they have for their various lines are a bunch of morons.
That may well be the case. I was genuinely interested in the Blue Planet Revised books they did. Had they been available in a format that was more consistent across the whole line and more easily available I might well have picked them up.
I'm hoping for Capricious Games to come up with some decent fixed-up Blue Planet 2E material in print, preferably with hardcovers of the core books.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735840I rather have a setting in which you have to pick out what you like (a buffet) and ignore the rest.
Agreed, but you need players who are cool with that. I often find canon monkeys get whiny over leaving out any bit. It's why I often go "core book only" to shut down canon monkey complaints about what's in splatbook 123.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735840I also really like the three layers in the game.
This is a big part of the fun with Fading Suns. The interaction and rivalries between forces within the layer and out of the layer can add lots to a campaign. The tension between all three layers and how zealots in all three are dangerous to the future of the whole can be lots of fun. All three layers are irredeemably corrupt, yet necessary to hold the Empire together.
Quote from: Spinachcat;735903Agreed, but you need players who are cool with that. I often find canon monkeys get whiny over leaving out any bit. It's why I often go "core book only" to shut down canon monkey complaints about what's in splatbook 123.
My players have the Nirvana mentality. "Here we are now, entertain us.". They never read anything.
Quote from: Spinachcat;735903This is a big part of the fun with Fading Suns. The interaction and rivalries between forces within the layer and out of the layer can add lots to a campaign. The tension between all three layers and how zealots in all three are dangerous to the future of the whole can be lots of fun. All three layers are irredeemably corrupt, yet necessary to hold the Empire together.
I like it, because I can ignore all the interaction between all forces much easier than WoD games. You can use the interaction, but you don't have to. It's not the primairy focus of the game, unlike Politician the Bickering.
Quote from: Spinachcat;735476BTW, if anyone is a D20 fan, the D20 Fading Suns is good, and that's coming from someone who doesn't prefer D20.
How much crucial information is in the d20 FS core book?
I have the d20 FS Character Codex and the d20 Lord Erbian's Stellar Bestiary books. (I also have the d20 Stargate SG-1 System Lords splatbook). From skimming through these books, it looks like a space opera using d20 style rules is relatively straightforward.
But offhand, the only rulesets which I don't see readily are ones related to operating a stargate/jumpgate or a spaceship.
Love the setting dearly. Looking for that right group willing to give it another go. Hard to compete with Chargen: the Min/maxing, though.
I actually find the setting's tech differentials refreshing and manageable. Smart phones can screw modern settings right quick nowadays, but Fading Suns' spacefaring feudal decay reins in many of those concerns. Rather ingenious past solution to a current challenge.
Quote from: ggroy;736308How much crucial information is in the d20 FS core book?
I've run two campaigns just with the core book, but I have FS1e and FS2e so I was familiar with the setting before the D20 book came out.
I don't know how much "crucial" setting info is only in the core vs. the other books. I suspect a Wikipedia search will fill in any holes.
Quote from: ggroy;736308But offhand, the only rulesets which I don't see readily are ones related to operating a stargate/jumpgate or a spaceship.
I don't even know if FS has rules for that. I always picture the ships as giant capital ships, even if they have minimal crew. Everything is huge and ancient ala 40k in my mind.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735912My players have the Nirvana mentality. "Here we are now, entertain us.". They never read anything.
Hey, what have you done with my players??? :)
I have accepted that non-reading gamers are a blessing and a curse and its the GM's choice which one they turn into. My chuckleheads all love "deep rich settings" and they read novels and enjoy video game canon, but oh no, the nimrods can't handle a RPG setting with more than 2 pages of intro.
I can give them one double sided sheet and that's it. Fortunately, that works for me so I can get them invested enough into wanting to play, but then introduce the setting in actual play.
And that's why going to GenCon is fun because you can advertise a Stormbringer RPG session, ask for the players to show up knowing the game and having read the novels, and out of the 50,000 people who show to GenCon, you can get 5 people who are excited to finally play with other Stormbringer fans. Then you can run a cool deep canon adventure.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735912I like it, because I can ignore all the interaction between all forces much easier than WoD games. You can use the interaction, but you don't have to. It's not the primairy focus of the game, unlike Politician the Bickering.
Very true. The setting is vast enough that you can just shove lots of interactions into the background and choose those you and your players want to be in the foreground.
Well for ship combat there is always Noble Armada for Fading Suns. Miniature war game, but hey you could always have the fight be to bring down the shields in the war game and after a successful boarding action switch to the PCs in Fading Suns rules as they fight through the enemy vessel (Similar to a lot of Earthdawn Navy and Airship fights that I had over the years, a ship combat until a boarding action occurred, but Earthdawn includes those abstracted rules in the Companions or Core over the years).
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/89621/A-Call-to-Arms-Noble-Armada
Quote from: 3rik;735888That may well be the case. I was genuinely interested in the Blue Planet Revised books they did. Had they been available in a format that was more consistent across the whole line and more easily available I might well have picked them up.
I'm hoping for Capricious Games to come up with some decent fixed-up Blue Planet 2E material in print, preferably with hardcovers of the core books.
Heh, Capricious Games just put print-on-demand versions of all three books for Blue Planet Revised back up on DTRPG. Makes one wonder if they read these forums. Only pity is the Player's Guide isn't available in color, but that's probably FASA's fault.
Anyway, back on topic.
On their Facebook page:
Capricious Games shared a link.
March 12
It's down to the last three days of the GM's Day Sale at DriveThruRPG and we've enabled the Blue Planet Revised titles, originally released through RedBrick and FASA Games. While we won't be working with this edition moving forwards, we still want to make sure that the titles are available.
I might additionally add its the last day to grab Blue Planet or Fading Suns/Noble Armada for 30% off.
A little off topic:
I once talked to a guy on a forum who tought Fading Suns was just like the new world of darkness. Now I like Fading Suns a lot and my relationship with the nWoD is one of love and hate, but I think Fading Suns is definitely more of a kitchen sink than nWoD.
Well both nWoD and Fading Suns have a potential for a lot of political intrigue which enable those kinds of LARPS which focus on backstabbing, diplomacy, and politics. The difference is of scale, where nWoD might focus on the politics of controlling a city, s Fading Suns LARP could have politics on a galactic scale.
Using Dune as an example, imagine a Landsraad style Imperium court except replace all the Dune Houses with Fading Suns equivalents. Voting, lobbying, backstabbing, scandals, and other forces like merchants trying to curry favor and gain votes in their interests. A lot of potential there for a good LARP that does not necessarily have too much combat beyond the occasional duel between nobles.
Quote from: slayride35;737032Well both nWoD and Fading Suns have a potential for a lot of political intrigue which enable those kinds of LARPS which focus on backstabbing, diplomacy, and politics. The difference is of scale, where nWoD might focus on the politics of controlling a city, s Fading Suns LARP could have politics on a galactic scale.
Using Dune as an example, imagine a Landsraad style Imperium court except replace all the Dune Houses with Fading Suns equivalents. Voting, lobbying, backstabbing, scandals, and other forces like merchants trying to curry favor and gain votes in their interests. A lot of potential there for a good LARP that does not necessarily have too much combat beyond the occasional duel between nobles.
Same could be said about the oWoD. Both are political.
I think Fading Suns has opt-in factions. Actually I am not really sure about this. Can you change alliance?
Anyway it reminds me more about the oWoD with it's detailed lore. It has a small metaplot. It has canon. It has lots of backstory. You can actually visit Stigmata and that is officially the planet on which the Eskatonic Order defeated the Symbiots for the first time. You won't find something like that in nWoD.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;737060I think Fading Suns has opt-in factions. Actually I am not really sure about this. Can you change alliance?
Sure, but its odd. Among my pregens for conventions is an ex-Priest who saw the light and truth of the Pancreator's true love of technology and became an Engineer.
Also, its possible to have a noble from one family be married into another and change their allegiance (or just appear to do so) to the new family.
As usual, how hard and fast the canon is depends on the GM.
Quote from: Spinachcat;737074Sure, but its odd. Among my pregens for conventions is an ex-Priest who saw the light and truth of the Pancreator's true love of technology and became an Engineer.
Also, its possible to have a noble from one family be married into another and change their allegiance (or just appear to do so) to the new family.
As usual, how hard and fast the canon is depends on the GM.
Well, I like it when you can pinpoint things. For some reason I like to know the fact the Universal Church has a Patriarch and it's dude with a name and such. I like some sort of established setting. Not that I use all of it, I just like the idea.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;737172For some reason I like to know the fact the Universal Church has a Patriarch and it's dude with a name and such.
I like Big NPCs to be named and lightly fleshed out. People flavor a setting tremendously so I totally support that. My problem with most splatbooks is the amount of data that I doubt reaches anyone's table.
But hey, its quite possible that stuff I don't find useful in a NPC breakdown is actually really useful to another gamer.
But since that gamer views RPGs differently that I do, I must hereby declare them heretic and swear interweb war against them for all eternity.
Burn the Heretic!!!
Quote from: Spinachcat;737179I like Big NPCs to be named and lightly fleshed out. People flavor a setting tremendously so I totally support that. My problem with most splatbooks is the amount of data that I doubt reaches anyone's table.
But hey, its quite possible that stuff I don't find useful in a NPC breakdown is actually really useful to another gamer.
But since that gamer views RPGs differently that I do, I must hereby declare them heretic and swear interweb war against them for all eternity.
Burn the Heretic!!!
I agree it shares old WoD problem of giving way and way too much info. I just prefer a fixed universe with fixed worlds and fixed regimes/factions/races on those worlds. I am the type of guy who ignores all the politics and just becomes a trader/smuggler/mercenary for the Musters/Charioteers/Scrappers of just becomes a freelancer. I like when it has an established setting so I can visit certain places that appeal to me. Btw Savage Worlds Hellfrost does this perfectly without giving too much info.
Old WoD had this too. You knew which Clan came from which part of the world. Camarilla had North America and Europe, Mexico was Sabbat, South America was Anarchs. Africa was different, Asia was very different. I like this kind of buffet lying in front of me. All I have to do is pick something out that appeals to me.
The fiefdom splats for the most part were very thin books. Li Halan, Decados, etc. were not all that heavy for the time, and at least had multiple planetary maps. But yes, TMI syndrome was huge then. It was the 90s, we were young, everyone was experimenting... ;)
The big challenge for me was always my challenge with space games: not making whole planets monolithic stereotypes. As in, "this is communist world, ruled by an alien high council of altruistic sentient plants. That one is xenophobic Prussian planet, where even the color of your eyes can get you in trouble. That over there is angst-riddled, eco-terrorists turned into shape changing monsters." Such efficient planetary homogenization is OK for general sketches, but complicating and detailing that can be a chore.
At least throw me more continental level sketches and conflicts, y'know.