So, I have only been lurking for the last few weeks (I'll get back to my Earthdawn-Greyhawk mashup, swear). But during this time I have been learning to use a very cool tool:
V.U.E - Visual Understanding Environment [ http://vue.tufts.edu ]An open source "Concept Mapping" application that allows you to visually map data. Mostly by hand, as other 'mind mapping' software does, but VUE has some really cool automated tools for importing and extracting data. So, what good is this?
Well, here are the last 10 entries from Justin Alexander's blog (the Alexandrian's RSS feed, to be precise).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wsAfJej4bjs/UAAHEBqGBnI/AAAAAAAAAjM/fCckBOgwkrs/s800/TheAlexandrianRSS_07_13_12.png)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wsAfJej4bjs/UAAHEBqGBnI/AAAAAAAAAjM/fCckBOgwkrs/s800/TheAlexandrianRSS_07_13_12.png
I've dropped all 10 "post" nodes onto the map, then the "hexcrawl" category node. Links are formed due to the meta-data. You can even double-click each node to open that post in your browser window.
[ Then I got fancy and called AlchemyAPI and OpenClais on one post, some web2.0 services, to generate new metadata nodes
based on the content of the post! As you can see by the nodes with red outlines, this isn't an exact proccess... it seems they tagged 'Hex' as from the Discworld series.. lol.. Anyway, this step isn't applicable to the use-case I'm leading up to. I just wanted a more complex map to show the relationship features possible with visual relationship mapping. ]
So, what then can we
really do with this tool?
Well, obviously we can plot "relationship maps" quickly and easily, with nodes for characters and links for one or two-way relationships.
Even better, once we have laid down nodes and links, then given them labels and keyword-metadata (examples: "NPC", "Treasure", etc), we can use the map-search feature to find unique entities quickly or to extract entities
onto a new map (say we need all the NPC's from a certain location, simply search your master NPC database-map for that location tag and generate a new map with all the NPCs tagged with that location name).
Even better (did I say that already?) we can add nodes to other nodes in a nested child/parent relationship,
and nodes can take a URI/URL reference. This last features means we can link to any file on our computer OR on the web. The child/parent relationship nesting means we can have multiple resources within a parent node to describe different aspects of it (nodes should be "one cocept" per the VUE specs). A simple doubleclick will then open, say.... the NPC's character sheet (once you've made it, save it, and linked it, of course), or a portrait or token image from your computer or the web (with the ability to preview
images in the map itself). Or a PDF file. Or an online Wiki entry...
Have I blown your mind a little yet? (Good, Eris hands out gold stars for that... -><-)
How about this: VUE is
FREE AND OPEN SOURCE (http://vue.tufts.edu).
Another one? Ok, so I had to introduce you to the tool for you to understand the next part. This is my main use case, currently:
VUE can import
spreadsheet data as CSV files (comma-separated-value text files).
So, I am current crawling through
Hommlet [T1-4] and jotting down every single NPC listed into a GoogleDocs spreadsheet according to the following Keywords. Who says Hommlet has to be boring? It's just the info-overload that kills it. There's a lot of intrigue and skulduggery in Hommlet, all buried in the Map Key... so we need some way of extracting that semantic data (meaning) behind the repetitious Key.
I've listed these Keywords at the top of my spreadsheet, VUE takes the first row as the meta-data categories for each "row-object" which defines an NPC:
Name: [for unnamed characters use Title(key##), examples: Farmer(01), Farmer's Son A(01), Farmer's Son B(01), etc... this will be our Master Key so they have to be unique]
Location: Hommlet [T1-4]
[Key]: [Location key [##] with leading zero, for sublocations use [##] ## format]
Class: [examples: commoner, Fighter, etc]
[Hit Die]: [examples:
Gear: [the npc's equipment]
Loot: [the NPC's carried valuables... NOT the location valuables]
Militia: [militia = a member of hommlet's militia, civilian = not, other = other]
Faction: [so far I have: Old Faith, New Faith, Rufus & Burne, Lareth's Camp, The Temple, Adventurers, Random Encounters ...not all may apply to hommlet]
Once I have this entered into my spreadsheet, I can drop a pic of the Hommlet map into a background layer in VUE and start laying out the NPCs. I can either auto-cluster them by Faction (If I define that relationship as the Key), or by Map Key## (ditto). I can then make a spreadsheet for the location information, import that and drop those nodes (using a different color scheme). Then, I can associate the two datasets, and auto-link NPCs to their locations.
So, is this something that you all would be interesting in seeing in action? Also, what would be some good Column Headers for my NPC roster?
Have I missed any key 0/1e "metadata" which all NPCs usually have? (Besides the 6 stats..I'm not including stats at the moment.)
Example: If I use an "Image" column, and populate it with URI/URLs from the web or my computer (and set the 'image-key' to that field when I import the dataset), VUE will then grab those images automatically! So, I've been considering that on a second pass at the NPCs. I know there are pics of Rufus and Burne floating around out there....
Hope this was useful, stay tuned to see my results. :cool:
Quote from: Telarus;559529Well, here are the last 10 entries from Justin Alexander's blog (the Alexandrian's RSS feed, to be precise).
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/9F8hvYIs6qU9neRw638ZT6GpdUR0T42LPEEb7qSJvC9t9zbxu3nmZEJdfoRhFmL3zYlLNLO-_rA)
I've dropped all 10 "post" nodes onto the map, then the "hexcrawl" category node.
I think you've posted that image in a private gmail message or something, can you rehost it on a free image sharing site? Its quite hard to understand what you mean without visual cues.
Quote from: The Traveller;559532I think you've posted that image in a private gmail message or something, can you rehost it on a free image sharing site? Its quite hard to understand what you mean without visual cues.
Definitely, sorry about that. Well, I'm just past the Welcome Wench and have over 50 characters in my roster (including all the young children).
[Edit: re-hosted out of my picasa album, and added the link..]
Ok, I've got a "first pass" done. No color coding (yet), but I have bolded the names of the militia members, and hidden young children under their mothers node (to save space).
I really like what I'm getting so far. Here's a WIP image (note that I have Elmo selected, and his metadata is in the Info window):
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tQbHcSHxmSI/UAAXBXZuAJI/AAAAAAAAAjw/Q21GO4Ff7Rg/s767/HommletNPCs_Test01.png)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tQbHcSHxmSI/UAAXBXZuAJI/AAAAAAAAAjw/Q21GO4Ff7Rg/s767/HommletNPCs_Test01.png
That should be a public image on my googleDrive. Let me know if anyone can't get to it, I can re-host a smaller image on picasa (less readable, tho).
Quote from: Telarus;559540That should be a public image on my googleDrive. Let me know if anyone can't get to it, I can re-host a smaller image on picasa (less readable, tho).
Nope, can't see it. Just bung it up on postimage.org or one of them, it won't last long but we'll see it anyway. I have to admit after looking at that I'm not much the wiser. Its a relationship map of some sort? And it goes through documents looking for related words?
Quote from: The Traveller;559542Nope, can't see it. Just bung it up on postimage.org or one of them, it won't last long but we'll see it anyway. I have to admit after looking at that I'm not much the wiser. Its a relationship map of some sort? And it goes through documents looking for related words?
Weird... but the 1st image came through when I replaced it? Ok then, Google+/Picasa it is for this forum. Fixed my previous post.
And here's a slightly bigger version via postimage.org (thanks, hadn't heard of them):
http://s9.postimage.org/bj8j5thu7/Hommlet_NPCs_Test01.png
I hope that since no-one else has replied that the images are showing up, & if I'm coming across as too confusing (hail eris?), I'm happy to field questions...
Would a visual key like this be useful to any of you (as a GM) if you re-ran this module (or one similar)?
You can move around the map, zoom in/out (and move nodes around), and run searches on the main map to generate a 'new map' with just the nodes/NPCs you want.
Personally, I find scanning for info much easier in a visual layout with relationships drawn out (and, as the VUE team says, this is based on the last 40 years of visual learning research). I'm testing out my process here, but I think this is a novel way to present adventure information (and you can always include a PDF with the "meat" of the adventure and auto-link to it in inside the map). You can also bundle up the map and all linked resources into one (\zip based) vue-package. Since VUE is free and open source the end user can grab it easily, and you can publish your map as a PDF or HTML image-map to post to people who don't have VUE.
Quote from: Telarus;559529I know there are pics of Rufus and Burne floating around out there....
They are on the back cover of the green edition of village of Hommlet.
It's interesting to pull role-play games into professional tools. I have used certain professional research techniques before, but one of the charms of such games is to remove one from work-a-day. The things I look for in tools for role-play games are ways to help the in game experience. It is useful to organize the creative process that one may perform in preparation, but I find that type of organization tends to create a type of target fixation. Lately, I have set a pretty short time limit on the pregame aspects, which helps make campaigns more lively.
If the goal is to create new publishable material, it would be different than campaign preparation, and I would certainly try such a process for a writing team that is having difficulty working together. All published adventures have a greater or lesser level of fixation upon certain goals or outcomes. So, the issue is less of an problem there.
Good work over all.
Quote from: Telarus;559540That should be a public image on my googleDrive. Let me know if anyone can't get to it, I can re-host a smaller image on picasa (less readable, tho).
FYI, I can see your images.
Quote from: Telarus;559529Well, obviously we can plot "relationship maps" quickly and easily, with nodes for characters and links for one or two-way relationships.
Does the software plot the lines between characters itself. or do you have to draw them manually?
One of the problems I've had with using software like this for relationship-map-types-stuff is that when a character has thirty or forty relationships - think Cardinal Richelieu in my
Flashing Blades campaign - then it becomes a real chore to manage. If the software automatically finds a best fit line, that would be a huge time saver.
Quote from: John Morrow;560003FYI, I can see your images.
Hi John. Thanks, good to know. :)
Quote from: Kuroth;560002[...snipped very useful feedback...]
Good work over all.
Thanks Kuroth, that was very useful commentary. I have used VUE as a "taking notes" replacement while in class, and once you get used to the interface it's as fast if not faster than hand-written notes. I wanted to experiment with this as a GM tool, and as a way to present new Adventures/Modules. I thought crunching through a complex area like Hommlet would be a good way to see if there is a benefit from using the tool.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;560008Does the software plot the lines between characters itself. or do you have to draw them manually?
One of the problems I've had with using software like this for relationship-map-types-stuff is that when a character has thirty or forty relationships - think Cardinal Richelieu in my Flashing Blades campaign - then it becomes a real chore to manage. If the software automatically finds a best fit line, that would be a huge time saver.
Hi BV. This is what I am experimenting with currently. My first data-set was basic NPC notes. My next one will be who the spies and secret agents in Hommlet report to. It will be laid out similar to the example below (and I can "associate" the two datasets via the Name field to link them, so VUE knows that those nodes are "the same").
VUE supports importing spreadsheet-style tables (in CSV format), and one of the options is called "Matrix Data". There are "Tall" and "Wide" matrices, but this just describes how you've laid out your data in the spreadsheet.
Let's take a "Tall" example. The spreadsheet would look like this (in CSV format):
Name1,relationshipTag,Name2Person1,really hates,Person2
Person1,is related to,Person3
Person2,really hates,Person1
Person2,is in love with,Person3
Person3,is related to,Person1
Person3,is in love with,Person2
Then, once you've imported it correctly, you can just drop all the nodes on your map and it will link them. I believe it will also update existing nodes if you update your CSV file and refresh the dataset window in VUE (still need to test this out). Here's a quick image of the example spreadsheet in vue. The links markd with <> are auto-generated. All I have done is 1) Dropped the nodes to the map. 2) Spread them out a little bit. 3) ran a search for "really hates" (this auto-selects the links with that tag) and changed the link color and line-weight.
(http://s19.postimage.org/fsychbi37/Relationship_Test.png)
Quote from: Telarus;560016I believe it will also update existing nodes if you update your CSV file and refresh the dataset window in VUE (still need to test this out).
Just tested this, and it seems like the links won't auto-update,
but if you delete the changed node and re-drop it, the new links show up. Not too hard, but it would be better if links could auto-update like the nodes. I'll have to check with the VUE programmers about his (although the forum hasn't been active recently). Might be easier to just change the link labels in the VUE map when the relationship changes... although I would prefer the update functionality.
Quote from: Telarus;560023Just tested this, and it seems like the links won't auto-update, but if you delete the changed node and re-drop it, the new links show up. Not too hard, but it would be better if links could auto-update like the nodes.
Yes, it would.
Thanks.
I can't understand what the point of any of this is.
RPGPundit
Hi Pundit. Let me see if I can answer that for you.
Quote from: 'T1-4 Hommlet - 15. The Moneychanger'[After specifying about 20-25K in raw coinage, jewels, and bar-metal stock.]
Be sure to keep track of all transactions made. The stock in trade must be correct, for example gems cannot be obtained when Nira has exhausted his supply. He can purchase more from merchants, at market value, every 7-12 days.
(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/roglol.gif)
Ok, ok.
So I'm running T1-4 and at the same time
converting it to Earthdawn 3rd Edition on-the-fly, which means translating D&D terms into Earthdawn terms (where all high level characters channel magic to walk their path). My rough scale right now is every 2 D&D 'levels' = +1 Earthdawn 'Circle' for an Adept (similar scale with HD and monsters). Also, I did a simple down-shift on the currency denominations to align with the Earthdawn 'silver' standard (gp becomes sp, etc..).
I ran the first few sessions on
3x5 Notecards and graph paper and dice (and a few map images for the players). Multiple delves into the Moathouse so far, and Lareth's pissed.
I have info overload, man.
And here Gary or Dave is telling me to track each individual cash-in at the moneychanger! (That fits well with the Treasure in GP -> XP idea, really...) And they had multiple adventuring parties crawling around, right?! Man, I'd need to invent my own card catalog system.
So, I found a different way to keep my campaign notes.
It's a searchable digital whiteboard. Which can import spreadsheets.
I'm really just starting to experiment with it.
So, I finished my first crawl though of the Hommlet map key. I've plucked out the details of 210 individual NPCs! (Wow Gary...) Plus the transient Hommlet population (+1d12 "laboror camp followers" i.e. women and children, and 1d6+1 travellers and merchants at the Inn of the Welcome Wench).
Hammlets total population (before the PCs show up and start upsetting the delicate balance) is roughly 213-229 individuals.
Cool! I'm going to start laying this map out and will have access to over 200 npcs' basic stats and notes on "one page", which I can modify on the fly during game.
I have all my datasets finished and error-corrected. I've worked out a basic work-flow to get multiple datasets 'playing nice' with each other. Getting some exciting results (this is just one 'style'). More later.
(http://s19.postimage.org/ow4dfn2hf/Hommlet_Factions_Basic_test01.png)
http://postimage.org/image/ux22cpp3j/ (http://postimage.org/image/ux22cpp3j/)
Quote from: RPGPundit;560471I can't understand what the point of any of this is.
RPGPundit
... and why it exists and what of information anyone could draw from this clusterfuck mess of a graphic...
I can't figure out why people are trying to piss on this. Probably jealousy. I think it's a cool idea, although obviously you're still working on it.
In general I'm a fan of this kind of relationship-mapping. Doing it on paper is a pain in the arse, but something I experiment with quite a bit. Figuring out a way to do it on computer is a bit of a holy grail, so I might download this tool and give it a look.
Telarus, keep it up, this is great stuff! :D
The relationship map in post #16 is awsome. The color-coding of the factions, especially the Old Faith-Verbobonc divide in the village. Post more of your ToEE-ED AP too. :)
In all honesty, this is more work than I would be willing to do, but I completely understand the desire and/or need for others to do something like to help them understand/remember better the subject matter. Everyone learns and retains information differently and this might just be the best route for some people.
I'm not so much trying to piss on it as I can't comprehend how it can actually be used.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;563548I'm not so much trying to piss on it as I can't comprehend how it can actually be used.
RPGPundit
Let me try. It's visually mapping out relationships in a manner where different layers of "society spheres" are shown their interconnecting paths. Sort of like a dungeon, but with cliques.
Quote from: RPGPundit;563548I'm not so much trying to piss on it as I can't comprehend how it can actually be used.
RPGPundit
You don't think having a simple way to visually represent all the relationships between NPCs in a campaign at a glance is useful? One one page? This effectively neatly summarises, in easy reference, what would take page after page of written information.
Maybe its just that I keep this information in my head, without difficulty, that makes it hard to get its usefulness. But at least the last couple of posts made it clear what its supposed to be for.
RPGPundit
Awesome sauce, color coding by alignment would include even more useful data, as well as adding an icon for class. Or viceversa.
Adding this to something like what Zak S did with the Caves of Chaos would be extra swell!
Quote from: RPGPundit;564100Maybe its just that I keep this information in my head, without difficulty, that makes it hard to get its usefulness. But at least the last couple of posts made it clear what its supposed to be for.
RPGPundit
Fair enough. It depends what kind of campaign you run. In my last CP:2020 campaign I had over 100 NPCs in the end, all with their own agendas, which was too much to really keep in my head. I was using excel files and hand-drawn relationship maps to keep track of it all, and could have used something more efficient like this.
Quote from: RPGPundit;564100Maybe its just that I keep this information in my head, without difficulty, that makes it hard to get its usefulness. But at least the last couple of posts made it clear what its supposed to be for.
Think of it like this. You have a town called Littlesford, to the east is the Dungeon o' Doom. To the north the Dark Forest, to the south the Plains of the Ten. And to the east the Duchy of Andal. Simple enough that many referee can keep this in their head and within a few sessions the players will have learned this too.
Now take Greyhawk, Harn, Forgotten Realms, Majestic Wilderlands, any homebrew setting that far larger than this. A map is an invaluable aid to the description of the geography. So significant that you can eliminate text describe where one locale is located relative to another. Thus making the text more concise and readable.
Now suppose your campaign isn't about a diversity of locales but rather a diversity of NPCs
You could take a 100 NPCs, have a dozen or so written in detail, divide the rest them into five factions, each of has three to five ranks or status levels. Simple lists and/or memorization would suffice to keep it all in your head.
But suppose you have the desire or need to have a more realistic setup for a group of NPCs? That you have written details on all the NPCs. Like geography, a map of NPCs would be invaluable for this. Like I use CorelDRAW to draw geographical maps, Vue can be used to draw relationship maps. Because of it's data management capabilities these NPCs maps can be of any arbitrary level of complexity without geometrically increasing the workload. Instead it just a matter of adding more entires to a list.
It neither better or worse than any other tool. I use Corel to draw map. Other handdraw their maps, others still just remember their maps. All work for running a campaign all have their place. The same with Vue in relation to other techniques for managing NPCs.
Yes. One page. Available while playing. One file for the 'stock' module, one for your active play notes.
Each node has "meta-data" (name, class, level, gear, loot, description, location key) that pulls up by simply clicking on the person.
A quick Notes field to track damage/status-effects/GM notes before they go into a campaign log.
VUE automatically links nodes to resources. You have documents or images on your computer or the web which describe a place or an NPC. You drag them onto the map, you can then tag these or place these into another node (as a child-node). For example, with my Hommlet map there will be links to other maps -
1) another VUE map showing a political "relationship map" similar to the faction map I sketched out above (with layers to hide the NPCs the players haven't met yet, etc).
2) another VUE map for each sublocation of Hommlet. There are some really great renderings of the Inn of the Welcome wench out there (& the Trader's Shop, among others). I can use them and link to the artist at the same time.
-------------
This project is coming along quite well, and I want to share the full map/*VUE-Package file when I have it all setup. Here's the thing with that....
As an artist (& a professional), I don't want to distribute the stock Hommlet map (which I have been using for layout and design work with the NPC and location nodes). Sure you can find it in 30 milliseconds on google, but the map from the book is some-one else's art (and unlike the Welcome Wench maps I'm using, they aren't licensed to distribute).
No problem. I'm a CG and 3d game artist. Took me a few days, but I've worked up a replacement Hommlet map of my own style.
(http://s19.postimage.org/54lylfz9t/Hommlet_Map_Color_1024_by_JF.png)
http://postimage.org/image/ep5l8bolr/
You like?
I should have work on the Node layout done later today.
I suppose that if you had a list of literally thousands of NPCs that were meant to be fully fleshed out, every one of them, this could be useful.
But that's not really the most sensible way to handle NPCs anyways.
RPGPundit
Very interesting, I see what it does now. Where do you set up the base information, an excel sheet? How would you lay that out, can you link to an example?
So that took longer than I expected. I had to figure out how to deliver the full resolution maps... Traveller, I am considering releasing the VUE maps (with the meta-data) and the google Spreadsheet I used to create them. Still working on that part, considering sublocation maps (and considering mapping the dungeoon/Moathouse).
See my Google+ post (public post) if you can't see the preview images.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/104849355407989263028/posts/27Si5ftdZaU
Background map of Hommlet 2048x2048 (save to disk and unzip): http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B52Q59_zWE3IWHhLMHhkU3JfOFk/edit
NPCs by Location map full resolution PDF (best downloaded and viewed @ 300%): http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B52Q59_zWE3IWHhLMHhkU3JfOFk/edit
NPCs by Location map (preview):
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gJBpHd-S1nI/UBT7BmZZeMI/AAAAAAAAAnw/_NhspJ8_5-8/s825/T1_Hommlet_Locations_NPCs.png
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gJBpHd-S1nI/UBT7BmZZeMI/AAAAAAAAAnw/_NhspJ8_5-8/s825/T1_Hommlet_Locations_NPCs.png)
NPCs by Faction map full: http://postimage.org/image/krk5oyrm7/full/
NPCs by Faction map (preview):
http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2IfZKzEaJ5k/UBT5hFP-keI/AAAAAAAAAnE/ceybx_LyZn4/s1024/T1_Hommlet_Factions_preview.png
(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2IfZKzEaJ5k/UBT5hFP-keI/AAAAAAAAAnE/ceybx_LyZn4/s1024/T1_Hommlet_Factions_preview.png)
Great stuff! :D
Quote from: Drohem;566029Great stuff! :D
Couldn't agree more - using technology in new and interesting ways is
always fascinating. It might not always be practical, but you never know
when you might find something _extremely useful_ when you go off
the practical path.
Quote from: Brad Elliott;568450Couldn't agree more - using technology in new and interesting ways is
always fascinating. It might not always be practical, but you never know
when you might find something _extremely useful_ when you go off
the practical path.
I totally agree.
Telarus, Vue is indeed a great piece of software.
Quote from: Telarus;565968Traveller, I am considering releasing the VUE maps (with the meta-data) and the google Spreadsheet I used to create them.
I'd greatly appreciate that, I really need to see how things come into being to be able to emulate them.
Quote from: Brad Elliott;568450Couldn't agree more - using technology in new and interesting ways is
always fascinating. It might not always be practical, but you never know
when you might find something _extremely useful_ when you go off
the practical path.
Welcome Brad, may your umbrella never wear thin in Seattle! ;)
Quote from: The Traveller;568572Welcome Brad, may your umbrella never wear thin in Seattle! ;)
Thanks, Traveller!
Just because I'm done with Eos doesn't mean I'm done with gaming... or even roleplaying game design. Yes, I'm up to something, but won't talk about it until it's considerably more done than it is. :D