Hello RPGsite! I'm Josh Bills, an independent TTRPG developer crafting a unique game set amidst the gothic landscapes of 14th-century Europe, "Grimoires of the Unseen." It's a world where historical accuracy meets the darkest European folklore.
Project Overview:
•   Setting: The eerie borderlands of France and Germany, early 14th century.
•   Theme: A rich blend of historical facts and European mystical folklore.
•   Gameplay: Players engage in supernatural investigations, artifact recovery, and foiling dark plots.
Current Progress:
•   Game mechanics, storyline, and character systems nearly finalized.
•   Actively seeking artists for immersive illustrations.
•   Organizing detailed playtesting phases.
Goals:
•   Craft a visually and narratively rich TTRPG.
•   Grow a community presence, both online and at conventions.
•   Expand with GM tools and further adventures.
Seeking Your Input:
1.   Feedback: Does "Grimoires of the Unseen" intrigue you?
2.   Collaboration: Open to connections with creatives and industry professionals.
3.   Mentorship: Looking for guidance from experienced TTRPG developers.
4.   Resources: Searching for development resources and promotional platforms.
Check out the Facebook page for a glimpse into the game's ambiance and potential.
Let's Discuss: Do you see a place for "Grimoires of the Unseen" in the TTRPG landscape?
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553328484425

Hey Josh, something that is important here is what you want to provide as a game tool.

If you want to do a ruleset, then do so.

If you want to do a setting, then do so.

But I would be wary of mixed efforts like this unless you build a fanbase before you develop this.

P.S. I am certainly interested in a world building or playable information setting book in what you are writing.

You're not giving us any real info other than you're doing this and setting it around 1400 A.D. This isn't a good advertisement.

What's the basic mechanic like? Can we get a peek at the system?

Quote from: WilliamJoel333 on November 10, 2023, 10:44:54 PM
Hello RPGsite! I'm Josh Bills, an independent TTRPG developer crafting a unique game set amidst the gothic landscapes of 14th-century Europe, "Grimoires of the Unseen." It's a world where historical accuracy meets the darkest European folklore.
Project Overview:
•   Setting: The eerie borderlands of France and Germany, early 14th century.
•   Theme: A rich blend of historical facts and European mystical folklore.
•   Gameplay: Players engage in supernatural investigations, artifact recovery, and foiling dark plots.
Current Progress:
•   Game mechanics, storyline, and character systems nearly finalized.
•   Actively seeking artists for immersive illustrations.
•   Organizing detailed playtesting phases.
Goals:
•   Craft a visually and narratively rich TTRPG.
•   Grow a community presence, both online and at conventions.
•   Expand with GM tools and further adventures.
Seeking Your Input:
1.   Feedback: Does "Grimoires of the Unseen" intrigue you?
2.   Collaboration: Open to connections with creatives and industry professionals.
3.   Mentorship: Looking for guidance from experienced TTRPG developers.
4.   Resources: Searching for development resources and promotional platforms.
Check out the Facebook page for a glimpse into the game's ambiance and potential.
Let's Discuss: Do you see a place for "Grimoires of the Unseen" in the TTRPG landscape?
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553328484425

It sounds interesting.  D6, D20, or D100?

Sounds like it could be interesting. Have you posted playtest packets anywhere? From the description it sounds like the setting is the historical world. Post the rules and ask for feedback.

Hello everyone,

Apologies if my initial post provided too little substance. Allow me to share a glimpse into the mechanics and lore of "Grimoires of the Unseen" to whet your appetite:

Basic Mechanic:
"Grimoires of the Unseen" is primarily a skill-based game that relies on a small d20 pool (more rolling, less math!).
1.   The Roll: A 20-sided die (d20) will determine your fate. Pray it's in your favor.
2.   Skill Levels: Your character's expertise—or lack thereof—will manifest in these ways:
               Unskilled: Roll 2d20, take the lowest. You're out of your depth.
               Novice: Roll 1d20. You might survive.
               Journeyman: Roll 2d20, take the higher. You've seen some things.
               Master: Roll 3d20, take the highest. Even you aren't safe.
          Advantage & Disadvantage: Sometimes, the universe conspires for or against you. The Game Master may grant Advantage or impose Disadvantage.
               Advantage: Roll an extra d20, take the highest. Don't get comfortable.
               Disadvantage: Roll at the next least favorable level. Your fate worsens.

Lore Teaser:
•   A secret war rages in the shadows of 1313 Europe, where mystical beliefs of the Middle Ages are terrifying realities.
•   Players will uncover hidden truths behind historical events, as they navigate a world where The Order of the Sacred Reliquary battles to protect mankind from a sinister cult and otherworldly horrors.

Character Creation Teaser:
•   Choose from diverse backgrounds like Noble, Clergy, Merchant, or Peasant, each with unique skills and starting assets.
•   Age affects your character's abilities; youth brings luck and resilience, while age provides wisdom and improved skills.
•   Characters are built using six primary attributes (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA), each ranging from 1-20.  Health Points (HP) are governed by a player's raw STR score and only increase when that attribute does. 
•   CON is no longer just for physical health; "In Grimoires of the Unseen," it represents a player's mental stability. Depletion leads to levels of insanity with significant roleplaying consequences. Reach five levels of insanity and your character's role shifts dramatically, possibly becoming an NPC or a villain, as guided by the Game Master.

Combat Mechanics Teaser:
•   Combat in "Grimoires of the Unseen" is both strategic and deadly and it is tailored towards the theatre of the mind, though it can also be run with minis. As "Grimoires of the Unseen" is a horror/gothic adventure game, combat and chases are equally important and the transitions between them are fluid, fast-paced, and exciting. In my playtesting, to date, some complex combats have run upwards, of two hours, but they are often much quicker.
•    To achieve this intensity, speed, and fluidity, ranges such as "Melee," "Near," "Far," and "Distant" are used in place of grid squares or hexes. Actions within combat rounds all happen simultaneously, and player turns are taken in clockwise order.
•   Additionally, "Ranged Combat Rules" offer a narrative but tactical option for closing distances, while 
"Grappling Rules" offer strategic options in close combat.

Magic System Teaser:
•   Three forms of magic—Divine, Elemental, and Dark—each with distinct advantages, drawbacks, and societal implications.
•   Casting isn't just about spells. It's about negotiation with otherworldly entities and the risks of delving into forbidden knowledge.

Chase Mechanics Teaser:
•   Fast-paced chase sequences where terrain, strategy, and luck all play a role in escaping danger or catching a quarry. Chases in "Grimoires of the Unseen" are broken into segments with possible complications between each. Chases are measured on a short track which ends in escape by the quarry. Each chase segment involves a real-time dice roll-off between the GM and a player, and each chase complication is randomly chosen from a table that is tailored to the chase location. When a chase moves from one environment to another, the GM simply begins rolling on the chase complication table tailored to the new environment.   

And a Little More:
•   "Locks & Traps" minigames that turn a simple action into a nerve-wracking skill challenge.

I hope this gives you a clearer picture of what "Grimoires of the Unseen" is about. We're crafting a game that's as much about the thrill of the chase and the clash of steel as it is about the dark corners of history and the human soul.

Looking forward to bringing you all into this world and hearing your thoughts and feedback!

Best,

Josh

While the setting is appealing, I can't help but feel that you'd be best served by making it an OSR product.

I like your basic mechanic.  Simple is good.

I dunno about the suggestion about making it OSR.  There's certainly a market there, but it's easy to get lost in the crowd, and I personally am bored with flavors of D&D.  I think either way can be viable if done well.

I'd suggest making threads about specific, narrow topics you're interested in getting input on, rather than the whole game at once.  There are quite a few professional RPG developers on the site, and I've gotten great input on specific issues I was dealing with.  (like here: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/how-to-define-fantasy-races/msg1156923/#msg1156923 )

I'm not a "norm" for here, but I personally would love to be sold on the setting rather than the mechanics. Good settings are hard to come by, but serviceable mechanics (usually by their own definition) are dime a dozen.

With the setting I can do this in my game of choice.

Quote from: WilliamJoel333 on November 11, 2023, 03:53:15 PM
Hello everyone,

Apologies if my initial post provided too little substance. Allow me to share a glimpse into the mechanics and lore of "Grimoires of the Unseen" to whet your appetite:...

With the benefit of more information, it sounds like the kind of game which is tailored to my specific preferences. I like the time period; I like folk horror; I like skills-based games, abstracted distances, etc. I also think the "competing secret societies" premise is a strong one for any kind of adventure game. Also the art you've shown on the Facebook page is pretty great. Of course implementation is everything, but on paper at least, the game gets my (totally worthless) stamp of approval.

That said, a bunch of random comments and observations, in no particular order. This is all based on my own preferences/experience, so just mentally add "in my opinion" to the start of every paragraph:

--Addressing Scholomance's comment, I partially disagree. There can be tremendous value in game rules specifically tailored to a setting and vice versa. The question I would want to ask is "how much setting information are we actually getting?". Way too many small-press games advertise themselves on their unique setting, and then you get the book and it contains a 10-page summary and an admonition to "make the setting your own". If you're going to write a ruleset which relies on its intended setting, it becomes imperative that you give the buyer all the information they need to run that setting.

--I also disagree somewhat with BadApple. There are some obvious advantages to writing your ruleset under the OSR structure. You get a built-in demographic which tends to spend a fair amount on RPGs, a degree of cross-compatibility with material from other games, and the advantage of a system which is familiar to most people in the hobby. You're also putting yourself in a pretty crowded and competitive market. There are a lot of OSR games; the big dogs in the arena are very well established, and the inherent sameness of OSR games makes it difficult to set yourself apart in the market. There's even already several well-known pseudo-historical/medieval folklore games on the scene. When a new OSR game comes out and is a big success, it's virtually always because the author is either well-connected or has an established good reputation in the community. People who really like OSR games invariably already have at least one which they've been playing for years and see no reason to replace, and if they do want to switch, they're spoiled for choice. Contrariwise, people who have a generally OSR attitude (politically incorrect, prefer rules light, etc.) but are for whatever reason dissatisfied with endless variations on Basic D&D, are a lot less well served. Based on your summary, the only games I can think of that you'd be in direct competition with rules-wise are Warlock! and possibly Shadow of the Demon Lord. Both are good games with respectable followings, but not exactly industry titans.

On the subject of the setting, I do think you might be shooting yourself in the foot a little commercially if, as the summary implies, the game presumes that all PCs are members of "The Order of the Sacred Reliquary". Designing your game for a specific setting is one thing, but prescribing what the players' role in that setting is could be perceived as limiting the game's potential for long and multiple campaigns. On top of that, there's the Christian Question. I've run two pseudo-medieval games recently, Dragon Warriors and Dolmenwood. Both games strongly presume that the majority of PCs will be members of their versions of the Catholic Church, and in both cases I found it very difficult to get even a plurality of Christian-equivalent characters in my game. In the various games I've run set in the real world, I don't think I've ever had someone voluntarily play a Christian. I can't stress enough that I would NOT suggest you change this. Both those things are features to my mind, not bugs. But it's probably worth recognizing all the same. The sad fact is that outside of this forum and a few others, roleplaying is a predominantly left-wing hobby, and the cultural stigma against the Catholic Church in general, and Crusader-like organizations in particular is probably going to limit the appeal a bit, at least among American players.

--Are you planning VTT support? Post-COVID, there's a significant number of players (myself included) who do all their roleplaying online. Having a ready-made Roll20 character sheet and/or Foundry module can make or break your game with that market, especially for a game that uses a unique dice mechanic.

--Have you considered an open license agreement? Again projecting my own situation here, but I'm probably not alone. I have neither the time nor the inclination to write my own game, but I would like to take some of my homebrewed material and turn it into modules/supplements for the games I run. Open licenses are pretty standard in the OSR, but are much rarer amongst non-OSR indie games. There's probably no better way to build a community around a small game than to give people an opportunity to create for it.

--Out of curiosity, why did you pick 1313? Kind of a weird transitional period in medieval history; post Crusades, pre Hundred Years war. Outside of the Scottish Wars of Independence (thank you, Braveheart), not a period that's hugely impressed itself on the popular mindset. The only relevant thing I could come up with is that it's one year after the Knights Templar were formally dissolved.

--It's hard to say much rules-wise, even with the information given, but a couple things jump out:

Simultaneous Turns: Would be very curious to see how you swing this. I've tried a number of methods over the years, and I've never seen it work.

Grappling: Again, would love to see what you've come up with. It's a system which most roleplaying games are sadly lacking in (especially if you include disarms, trips etc under "grappling"), but that's because most grappling systems over the years have been either utterly borked, or just objectively less effective than doing a standard attack every round.

Starting Backgrounds: sound a little too generic for my taste. It looks like you have them mapped to the traditional three orders of medieval society (https://www.medievalists.net/2023/11/three-orders-medieval-society/) plus merchants. It depends on how important backgrounds are, but if they're a big deal you might look a bit more at profession-based games like Warhammer Fantasy and Warlock! There's a ton of medieval occupations and social classes beyond what you listed there, and I think specifying them a bit more would help bring over the setting flavor. Other options might include things like "burgher", "yeoman", "friar", "university student/professor" "guildsman", "man-at-arms" etc.

Magic: The "negotiating with otherworldly entities" idea for magic has appeared in other games, and it is a refreshing change of pace from more traditional RPG magic. However, I find it works much better if you've avoided having a dedicated "spell-caster" character type. It sounds like what you're alluding to is a system akin to "ritual magic" in other games, generally something to be done outside of combat for roleplay or utility purposes. That's great. I love it. But I'd want to make sure that choosing to play a magic user isn't crippling the PC during the action scenes.

Stat Balance: Again I'm making a lot of presumptions here, but I'd wonder if pinning HP to strength runs the risk of turning it into a super-stat, especially if strength is still the most common attacking stat, as it is in a lot of games.

General Balance: With any skill-based game, I consider it important to examine whether the system is geared to reward generalization or specialization. This comes down to a lot of factors, but I find one of the bigger ones is how check difficulty is modified. I'm not a math guy, so I might be talking out of my ass here, but my sense of it is that games where a harder check requires multiple successes create an exponential difficulty curve, and I find tend to reward min-maxing, where as games where the harder check imposes a +/- penalty create a linear one, and tend to reward generalization a bit more. I believe the "advantage/disadvantage but still requiring only a single success" works more like a linear bonus/penalty.  Largely a preference-based thing. Personally I think generally competent characters create more interesting roleplay, and detest games that encourage min-maxing.


Anyway, like I said, random grab-bag of thoughts. Read or discard at your leisure.

ForgottenF, Thanks for the lengthy response and the meaningful insights! I'm hoping to find more people that share your gaming interests. In the right forum/format, I'd love to get into the weeds more regarding the mechanics and lore. I'm currently playtesting a bunch, so I'm trying to work through all of the kinks.

If anyone on the forum is interested in doing some playtesting, feel free to hit me up directly!

Quote from: ForgottenF on November 11, 2023, 10:02:30 PM
Addressing Scholomance's comment, I partially disagree. There can be tremendous value in game rules specifically tailored to a setting and vice versa.

There's a reason that the game Earthdawn is often described as "D&D done right".

Quote from: WilliamJoel333 on November 11, 2023, 03:53:15 PM

Basic Mechanic:
"Grimoires of the Unseen" is primarily a skill-based game that relies on a small d20 pool (more rolling, less math!).
1.   The Roll: A 20-sided die (d20) will determine your fate. Pray it's in your favor.
2.   Skill Levels: Your character's expertise—or lack thereof—will manifest in these ways:
               Unskilled: Roll 2d20, take the lowest. You're out of your depth.
               Novice: Roll 1d20. You might survive.
               Journeyman: Roll 2d20, take the higher. You've seen some things.
               Master: Roll 3d20, take the highest. Even you aren't safe.
          Advantage & Disadvantage: Sometimes, the universe conspires for or against you. The Game Master may grant Advantage or impose Disadvantage.
               Advantage: Roll an extra d20, take the highest. Don't get comfortable.
               Disadvantage: Roll at the next least favorable level. Your fate worsens.

There is an issue with this system:  As written here, an Unskilled person with Advantage will have a better chance of success than a Novice with Advantage (or the same chance of success as Journeyman with Advantage).  You could make it work by having the Unskilled character roll 2d20 and take the lowest as usual, and only then apply the higher of that result or the advantage die.  That might not have exactly the same probabilities that you're looking for, but it's probably closer to what you intend.

Quote from: Scholarch on November 11, 2023, 04:06:20 AM
Hey Josh, something that is important here is what you want to provide as a game tool.

If you want to do a ruleset, then do so.

If you want to do a setting, then do so.

But I would be wary of mixed efforts like this unless you build a fanbase before you develop this.

P.S. I am certainly interested in a world building or playable information setting book in what you are writing.

This was called out by someone else, but I'm going to throw in my two bits.   I strongly disagree with this advice.  In a good game the rules support the specific setting.  There's no such thing as a system without a setting - the setting is implied by the rules. 

Quote from: Mishihari on November 11, 2023, 11:56:51 PM

Quote from: Scholarch on November 11, 2023, 04:06:20 AM
Hey Josh, something that is important here is what you want to provide as a game tool.

If you want to do a ruleset, then do so.

If you want to do a setting, then do so.

But I would be wary of mixed efforts like this unless you build a fanbase before you develop this.

P.S. I am certainly interested in a world building or playable information setting book in what you are writing.

This was called out by someone else, but I'm going to throw in my two bits.   I strongly disagree with this advice.  In a good game the rules support the specific setting.  There's no such thing as a system without a setting - the setting is implied by the rules.

Sure, in an ideal world. But developing a setting and ruleset together narrows down your potential userbase considerably, unless he has personal fans to back it up.

Quote from: ForgottenF on November 11, 2023, 10:02:30 PM
--Addressing Scholomance's comment, I partially disagree. There can be tremendous value in game rules specifically tailored to a setting and vice versa. The question I would want to ask is "how much setting information are we actually getting?". Way too many small-press games advertise themselves on their unique setting, and then you get the book and it contains a 10-page summary and an admonition to "make the setting your own". If you're going to write a ruleset which relies on its intended setting, it becomes imperative that you give the buyer all the information they need to run that setting.

There is also this, where the success of Dolmenwood is down to it being tied to OSE (originally) and then having been moved on to its own (basically OSE) system later on.

The initial thrust of the product was solely the setting.