Wow, am pleased and surprised with the number and quality of replies. Will write up a long response after work today but shorter one for now:

-Want to also incorporate "baraka" (divine grace loosely). I especially like the stories about Sufi mystics having their baraka allow them to tame animals, which is easy enough to port over to Christianity (see St. Francis). My favorite Sufi story is about a mystic being full of himself because his baraka let him ride a lion so he went to visit another Sufi and parked his cow in his host's cow pen  before spending the evening boasting about his lion while his host nodded placidly. In the morning he went out to get his lion and found a pile of bones at the feed of his host's cow.
-Another thing to incorporate would be pilgrimages. Perhaps visiting the tomb of a Saint (or grabbing his relic) who's famous for using X ability a PC can pick up that ability when they level up, a bit parallel to magic-users learning spells.
-For this sort of thing you have to walk a thin line. Don't want people to feel that their religion is being mocked but at the same time don't want people to feel like they're being strong armed into Christianity. For example I don't really want healing determined by the faith of the recipient as that kind of feels like EVERYONE is being forced into having the GM track how Christian their fighter is being rather than just the cleric.

A lot of the fiction I've been reading recently (Arthur Machen (I can't recommend "The White People" highly enough after the dry framing device the whole thing is a mad fever dream of fairy tale horror, his other work never comes close to being as good to my immense frustration), Clark Ashton Smith and Three Hearts and Three Lions) has been featuring conflict between Christianity and paganism/Satanism/witchcraft mashed together. In Smith's Averoigne stories Christianity is pretty pathetically weak in the face of witchcraft, Machen has a really interesting love/hate relationship with paganism, finding it incredibly appealing but at the same time using it for fodder for the horror stories that Lovecraft loved so much. While with Anderson Law is good and Chaos is evil, without being comic book villain evil.

Quote from: CRKrueger;789102I'm all for a good rollicking stroll down the history (both revealed and hidden) of Christianity as much as the next person, but there's a million threads on a million forums to do that, and the Pundit might like that in his forum.

Here we have a much rarer topic, Explicitly Christian Clerics in gaming, let's not derail it before it begins.

I like the idea of the Christian Cleric not having "spells" but god-granted abilities based on a mechanism of Faith.  LibraryLass lived up to her moniker by pulling The Friar out of FH&W.  If you start the Christian Cleric with something like Friar as a base, reworking the Faith system if you want, then I think you could meld some of the Paladin in there, Detect Evil, Protection from Evil, etc.

An idea you could steal from...Hackmaster I think it is, where healing spells are more effective on the faithful, you could institute either by giving a bonus to protecting, healing, inspiring Christians, or even have the power be based on the Faith of the individual.

the church knights fanbrew for oWoD is an excellent resource for defining a load of Faith based effects and what they might do in a game context.

http://vampirerpg.free.fr/Rules/CK/

Here's one from a more miniatures oriented game that I wrote that leans a bit more towards explicit Christianity.  One particular feature of this system is that many of the effects are determined by the numbers of people involved.  For instance a regiment falling to its knees in supplication is more effective than a lone holy man.

Acts of Faith
   The followers of the Supreme Architect, whatever their credo or dogma may be can at times command literally infinite power.  Acts of faith can far outstrip the capabilities of magic as they draw power from all the believers involved.  On the other hand, having an entire regiment drop to its knees before the onslaught of their enemies can be a greater trial of faith than they can bear.
   Acts of Faith are resolved by rolling the Faith skill of all those actively praying for them with a target number equal to their Will.  While actively praying a figure cannot take any other action.

Prayer
Will, Faith Skill
Full Move, Half Move
+2 Facing Demons
+1 Facing Evil Foes
-1 Shaken
-2 Routed

Defining Evil
   When dealing with the angelic agents of The Supreme Architect, the question of evil is not just a matter of philosophy.  For this purpose, the presence of demons, dragons, undead, or sorcerers who have access to Death, Darkness, or Black spells in a force automatically defines them as evil.  Forces in which the Faith skill is entirely absent are also considered evil.  Armies which have raided or destroyed settlements of any size or taken slaves get no benefit of the doubt from the hosts of heaven.  Any force or individual that qualifies as evil under these terms can expect no mercy, nor can units with the Faith skill that chose to march with such forces expect their prayers to be answered.

   If they are required to chose sides, the hosts of heaven will favour the side with the highest total Faith skill.  They are never fond of magicians, elves, goblins, or sprites so subtract two points for each of these marching with a force.

3+ Shield of the Just
   By the almighty hand of The Supreme Architect, the righteous are sheltered from the wrath of the powers of darkness.  All those involved in actively praying for this blessing receive a one point bonus to resist spells and a one point bonus to their armour against Elementals, Dream Shadows, Fiends, and Night Gaunts.

6+ Fury of the Elements
   The heavens darken though the day was fair and clear before.  Thunder roars and winds wail.  In the time frame of the average battle, the Fury of the Elements gives a two point penalty to all shooting and restricts all movement to half pace.  The storm blows in over the course of three turns.  In the first turn the sky darkens behind the enemy and the wind picks up a bit.  The second turn it covers the enemy's half of the battle field and in the third turn it covers both sides.  It takes a full hour for the full fury of the storm to come in but at this point any combat is unthinkable.  The torrent of rain, lightning, and hail that cascades down from the skies is simply impassible and the lightning simply loves to seek out those with magical protection from the weather.

9+ Legions of Heaven
   The hosts of heaven descend from above to answer the prayers of the faithful.  A regiment of Proclaimers lead by an Avenger appear on the battle field where ever the praying forces wish.  The total number of angelic beings who answer the call is equal to the number of individuals actively praying for the miracle.  It is worth noting that the hosts of heaven come of their own free will to ensure the triumph of right.  In situations where neither side is notably evil they will act as peace keepers, dividing the battle field and interposing themselves between units to prevent fighting.

12+ Resurrection
   The trumps of heaven sound across the battlefield as the untimely fall of a champion of light is set to right.  A single figure with a Faith of at least 3 is returned to life in full health and protected by the Shield of the Righteous for as long as they qualify as good individuals.

15+ Stop The Heavens
   The sun either stops in its course or rises in the dead of night.  The latter takes place over three turns.  The first, a light is seen on the horizon.  This gives a +1 to morale to the individuals who prayed.  The next turn the dawn breaks and the light level becomes twilight, this gives a -1 to everyone else's morale, even their own side.  Finally in the third turn, the sun rises to the apex of the heavens, the light level becomes day, and the praying side's -1 morale penalty is removed.

I've run plenty of CoC and in the US for PCs in the 1920s, Christianity is the order of the day. Of course, there is Pendragon with Christian knights.

For me, I can't wrap my head around Christians casting spells. For me, it would have to be more about "he's not a cleric, he's an angel" to make that work.

There is also the angle of magic actually being psionics.

Quote from: Spinachcat;789132For me, I can't wrap my head around Christians casting spells. For me, it would have to be more about "he's not a cleric, he's an angel" to make that work.

Well, it's not unusual for a saint to perform miracles. In fact, my understanding is that it's considered a necessary condition for canonization.

Quote from: Spinachcat;789132For me, I can't wrap my head around Christians casting spells. For me, it would have to be more about "he's not a cleric, he's an angel" to make that work.

Quote from: LibraryLass;789134Well, it's not unusual for a saint to perform miracles. In fact, my understanding is that it's considered a necessary condition for canonization.

Casting spells, no, but depends on how Old Testament you are.  Old Testament Yahweh can send angels to wipe out armies or entire cities.  If you're the one that called the Angel...  

Quote from: The ProphecyDid you ever notice how, in The Bible, whenever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?

Flamestrike, Sticks to Snakes, a few of the classic Cleric spells are straight out of the bible.  I agree though that the Vancian memorization mechanic applied to Clerics isn't very Christian.  The "making Faith rolls for Bonuses, Maluses, Dispels, Wards and outright Miracles" is a lot cooler I think.

IMO gaming with current religions is (or should be) taboo.

Too much strong emotion, too much bias, to make for relaxing fun among friends.

Keep religious beliefs to yourself. Best advice ever.

Quote from: Baron;789203IMO gaming with current religions is (or should be) taboo.

Too much strong emotion, too much bias, to make for relaxing fun among friends.

Keep religious beliefs to yourself. Best advice ever.

That basically takes most historical gaming off the table. I'm enough of a history geek that that's not something I'm really willing to do.

Took a look at the friar class (FH&W has a lot of great stuff going for it overall) and it certainly feels more like a Christian priest than the standard D&D cleric. The only thing is a lot of the prayer is fairly bland, but they could be tweaked to be more explicitly Christian and flavorful. I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on attaching a resource management mechanic to them ("sorry guys, I'm all out of prayers today").

QuoteRegarding Donatism — doesn't Holger loses his protection against Chaos when he sleeps around? I might be misremembering.

I think that's when he gets jealous. What I meant was that instead of having clerics/paladins "fall" and have their magic stop entirely, instead of things be more case by case. Even if you kicked puppies all morning you can still have faith in the evening if you're pursuing the right cause.

David Johansen: some good grist for the mill there, but seems a bit more flashy than what I'm looking for for the most part.

Quote from: David Johansen;789122Here's one from a more miniatures oriented game that I wrote that leans a bit more towards explicit Christianity.  One particular feature of this system is that many of the effects are determined by the numbers of people involved.  For instance a regiment falling to its knees in supplication is more effective than a lone holy man.

Acts of Faith
   The followers of the Supreme Architect, whatever their credo or dogma may be can at times command literally infinite power.  Acts of faith can far outstrip the capabilities of magic as they draw power from all the believers involved.  On the other hand, having an entire regiment drop to its knees before the onslaught of their enemies can be a greater trial of faith than they can bear.
   Acts of Faith are resolved by rolling the Faith skill of all those actively praying for them with a target number equal to their Will.  While actively praying a figure cannot take any other action.

Prayer
Will, Faith Skill
Full Move, Half Move
+2 Facing Demons
+1 Facing Evil Foes
-1 Shaken
-2 Routed

Defining Evil
   When dealing with the angelic agents of The Supreme Architect, the question of evil is not just a matter of philosophy.  For this purpose, the presence of demons, dragons, undead, or sorcerers who have access to Death, Darkness, or Black spells in a force automatically defines them as evil.  Forces in which the Faith skill is entirely absent are also considered evil.  Armies which have raided or destroyed settlements of any size or taken slaves get no benefit of the doubt from the hosts of heaven.  Any force or individual that qualifies as evil under these terms can expect no mercy, nor can units with the Faith skill that chose to march with such forces expect their prayers to be answered.

   If they are required to chose sides, the hosts of heaven will favour the side with the highest total Faith skill.  They are never fond of magicians, elves, goblins, or sprites so subtract two points for each of these marching with a force.

3+ Shield of the Just
   By the almighty hand of The Supreme Architect, the righteous are sheltered from the wrath of the powers of darkness.  All those involved in actively praying for this blessing receive a one point bonus to resist spells and a one point bonus to their armour against Elementals, Dream Shadows, Fiends, and Night Gaunts.

6+ Fury of the Elements
   The heavens darken though the day was fair and clear before.  Thunder roars and winds wail.  In the time frame of the average battle, the Fury of the Elements gives a two point penalty to all shooting and restricts all movement to half pace.  The storm blows in over the course of three turns.  In the first turn the sky darkens behind the enemy and the wind picks up a bit.  The second turn it covers the enemy's half of the battle field and in the third turn it covers both sides.  It takes a full hour for the full fury of the storm to come in but at this point any combat is unthinkable.  The torrent of rain, lightning, and hail that cascades down from the skies is simply impassible and the lightning simply loves to seek out those with magical protection from the weather.

9+ Legions of Heaven
   The hosts of heaven descend from above to answer the prayers of the faithful.  A regiment of Proclaimers lead by an Avenger appear on the battle field where ever the praying forces wish.  The total number of angelic beings who answer the call is equal to the number of individuals actively praying for the miracle.  It is worth noting that the hosts of heaven come of their own free will to ensure the triumph of right.  In situations where neither side is notably evil they will act as peace keepers, dividing the battle field and interposing themselves between units to prevent fighting.

12+ Resurrection
   The trumps of heaven sound across the battlefield as the untimely fall of a champion of light is set to right.  A single figure with a Faith of at least 3 is returned to life in full health and protected by the Shield of the Righteous for as long as they qualify as good individuals.

15+ Stop The Heavens
   The sun either stops in its course or rises in the dead of night.  The latter takes place over three turns.  The first, a light is seen on the horizon.  This gives a +1 to morale to the individuals who prayed.  The next turn the dawn breaks and the light level becomes twilight, this gives a -1 to everyone else's morale, even their own side.  Finally in the third turn, the sun rises to the apex of the heavens, the light level becomes day, and the praying side's -1 morale penalty is removed.

I advise you change the name of that skill, unless you want a visit from Games' Workshop, as it remembers it still actually produces Sisters of Battle .

A couple of points:

Quote from: Archaeopteryx;789098B) In the west at least, the major philosophical system that was prefered was Aristotle, later matured by St. Thomas Aquinas into Thomism.

  St. Thomas Aquinas is my master and area of specialty, so I feel the need to nuance this here.

  Early Christianity did draw heavily on Neoplatonic thought, although it heavily conflicted with the Neoplatonists as well. Aristotelianism doesn't move into the conversation in a major way until the 12th century, and then it was treated with suspicion, especially since it had been received through the prism of Islamic scholars who wound up turning it into something that was arguably neither properly Aristotelian nor properly Muslim. Aquinas was one of the key figures responsible for the heavy shift from the Platonic thought of the Patristic and Early Medieval eras to the Aristotelianism of the High Medieval and Early Renaissance, although in other ways, the trend of thought went in directions the Angelic Doctor would not have approved of.

Quote from: The Butcher;788997Regarding Donatism — doesn't Holger loses his protection against Chaos when he sleeps around? I might be misremembering.

   I really need to finish Three Hearts and Three Lions one of these days...

   You're making the Donatist mistake here of conflating two different things. There's the 'state of grace'--the condition of being at peace with and reconciled to God, attained by baptism, lost through grave sin, restored by confession and absolution--and then there are the special graces of the priestly character which involve sacramental actions, such as the authority to bind and loose sins (cf. Matthew 16:18, 18:18; John 20:22-23) and to offer the sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist. Donatism (and later revivals, such as Lollardy and Wycliffe's thought, IIRC) hold that you can't have the latter without the former; Catholic thought has held that since Christ is the active agent and the priest merely the instrument, a priest who intends to do what the Church intends can still celebrate the sacraments even if he's a terrible sinner. Now, in doing so, he's usually just compounding sin and is encouraged to get to confession and amend his life straightaway, but the sacraments still operate.

   D&D has traditionally associated the paladin's role with the former, and clerical abilities have gone back and forth. Personally, I think clerical powers are best understood as gratuitous grace or 'gratia gratis data', which are "free gift conferred on particular persons for the salvation of others" and so independent of moral character--and, in some cases, of priestly ordination. Making clerical talent the kind of thing that is given and can be trained but is distinct from the priesthood, IMO, solves a lot of problems both in terms of world-building and theologically. For one thing, it nicely dodges the problem of female clerics in an explicitly Medieval Catholic world.

Quote from: Rincewind1;789220I advise you change the name of that skill, unless you want a visit from Games' Workshop, as it remembers it still actually produces Sisters of Battle .

The skill is simply faith.  Most human troops get it automatically.  Acts of Faith are essentially spells that rely more on bulk unit casting than individual power.

Quote from: Daztur;789213David Johansen: some good grist for the mill there, but seems a bit more flashy than what I'm looking for for the most part.

Subtle is hard to do well in an rpg.  But I agree, which is why the article didn't wind up in the core of Dragon Shadowed Lands.

The stuff from the game formerly known as Bare Bones isn't tight enough to really run a miniatures battle.  I'd like to revisit the game at some point.

Quote from: BaronIMO gaming with current religions is (or should be) taboo. Too much strong emotion, too much bias, to make for relaxing fun among friends.Keep religious beliefs to yourself. Best advice ever.

Look away, concern troll elsewhere.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;789234Donatism (and later revivals, such as Lollardy and Wycliffe's thought, IIRC) hold that you can't have the latter without the former; Catholic thought has held that since Christ is the active agent and the priest merely the instrument, a priest who intends to do what the Church intends can still celebrate the sacraments even if he's a terrible sinner. Now, in doing so, he's usually just compounding sin and is encouraged to get to confession and amend his life straightaway, but the sacraments still operate.

Hmm, so you can split the difference and have two kinds of Priestly Blessings:
1. The Miracle based on the Priest's own "State of Grace".  These abilities stem from the Priest, who being in communion with God, has an aura of godliness about him, however, this is not finite.  It relies upon his Grace and his Faith which can be reduced or lost.  This is similar to the Paladin, only instead of being imbued with combat and protection abilities, allows a more group-oriented expression of God's will.
2. The Ritual, where the power itself comes from the almighty, and the Priest himself is the instrument.  This is more akin to "casting a spell", however, being a Christian religious ritual, may take rounds, minutes, or hours to accomplish.  The priest may lose more Grace, accumulate Sin, however you want to put it in performing the ritual when he is not in a State of Grace, but the ritual still works.

If you want to add another layer of mystery about the Greater Being, just make it so that the Lollard clerics can't cast spells if they have sinned and not confessed, while Catholics can cast the spells no matter what.

Possible explanation for bonus plot twists - Catholics get their spells not actually from God directly, but from Pope. You can add an addendum that the spells'd be weaker the more degenerated Pope sits on the Holy See.