RPGs are social. RPGs with GMs also tend to have a non-social part of them. How much time that particular facet of the game takes depends on the GM. Some run rully from the hilt, others create the entire world before letting the PCs step foot in it.

Quote from: blakkieFrom the lips of Catpissman himself.

Last time I checked...nope. I'm neither bearded, nor overweight, nor socially inept, nor smelly.

QuoteThe difference being that one is socially orientated and the other is not.  Not that doing things that aren't inherently social is bad. I don't drive around throwing empty beer bottles at people jogging in the park. Usually. :deflated:

You can't say that doing things that aren't inherently social is bad without context, and then give a very context specific example. There are plenty of things human beings do that aren't social that aren't bad. It's a matter of context and that seems to be what you're missing.

QuoteHowever directly linking RPGs to something that isn't social seems to undermine the thrust of RPGs being social. Which they are, right? Or am I off there? RPGs seem to be built for a group of people, and even just 2 people playing together as far as I know is not the norm (though it certainly happens!)

You don't know the context. You don't know how Zachary's creative process works, you don't know the particular dynamics of anyone's personal life, you are likely omitting important facts about your wife's relationship with her ex. You have supplied an argument (that creating content for RPGs with no intent on using it is somehow wrong) without any useful context.

Quote from: James McMurrayRPGs are social. RPGs with GMs also tend to have a non-social part of them. How much time that particular facet of the game takes depends on the GM. Some run rully from the hilt, others create the entire world before letting the PCs step foot in it.

But that, suppositly, is towards a social end. Like putting on your pants, that you do by yourself, before showing up at the game.

I don't think it is a coincidence that you often start seeing problems at the table when the GM starts to move past preparation into effectively preplaying/prescripting the game before showing up at the table?

Quote from: WilLast time I checked...nope. I'm neither bearded, nor overweight, nor socially inept, nor smelly.

Not what I mean. I mean it is an archtypical Catpissman line, not that you are one.

QuoteIt's a matter of context and that seems to be what you're missing.

Er, it's you that is trying to strip out context. Intent is the context.

Quote from: blakkieIntent is the context.

So the only intent you think is worthwhile is if you are going to use the material in-game that you are preparing in your spare time?

Just so i get this straight.

Quote from: blakkieEr, it's you that is trying to strip out context. Intent is the context.

No, the context is why the individual creates material that they do not intend to use.

 Consider this case, because it is one I find myself in often: an individual with a wife and two kids. Both parents work opposite schedules by necessity. They have only one vehicle, so when the wife is at work the husband watches the kids at home. The husband does not have a regular gaming group because time constraints and schedules do not allow it. He does not want to participate in an online game because he does not find them satisfying. He does enjoy creating characters and other material for games because it provides a creative outlet and helps pass the time when he does not have other things to do. He, however, has no intention of ever using any of this material.

That is context. Intent, alone, is only a portion of the context.

Quote from: One Horse TownSo the only intent you think is worthwhile is if you are going to use the material in-game that you are preparing in your spare time?

Just so i get this straight.

That is the watershed that I gathered. Remember, this isn't really about an entry barrier for me. Further questioning lead to to guess it is about the social/not social aspect. Because my wife was all for the social aspect of RPGs, and enjoyed playing for a number of years till kids got in the way. Even GMing at one time, which involved some prep work on a prefab module.

But she had gotten the distinct impression that RPGs had a very large non-social from her prior outsider experience I mentioned in my initial post.

Quote from: blakkieBut that, suppositly, is towards a social end. Like putting on your pants, that you do by yourself, before showing up at the game.

I don't think it is a coincidence that you often start seeing problems at the table when the GM starts to move past preparation into effectively preplaying/prescripting the game before showing up at the table?

You're reaching here.

Me, personally?  Yes, my motivation for playing an RPG is social.  But that's me.  If Hector down the road plays RPGs as a creative exercise, and can get the same satisfaction by doing the same things on his own then more power to him.

Being socially apt or inept is a completely unconnected question.  Writing up character sheets can't make you socially inept any more than not writing up character sheets can make you socially fluent.

Now it sounds like your wife is saying "You are associating with something that my ex- associated with, and therefore you must be socially inept like my ex."  That's a problem of a whole different type.  She's being unreasonable, because she has baggage.  It's not uncommon.  You enable that when you pass the blame for that stupidity on to people around you rather than dumping it right back in her lap where it belongs.

Quote from: blakkieBut she had gotten the distinct impression that RPGs had a very large non-social from her prior outsider experience I mentioned in my initial post.

But that is an individual impression from a specific set of circumstances. The fact that she generalized that impression to be representative of all gaming prep activity is a human foible and not the fault of the activity in and of itself.

Quote from: WilNo, the context is why the individual creates material that they do not intend to use.

Er, why you do something is what 'intent' is about.
EDIT:

Quote from: WilBut that is an individual impression from a specific set of circumstances. The fact that she generalized that impression to be representative of all gaming prep activity is a human foible and not the fault of the activity in and of itself.

Yes, it's just an observation about one turd.  But a turd none-the-less. That's the reason for the question mark in the topic. How far does this go? Why? What have I seen here exactly? I've seen other examples, but none quite as stark nor that I questioned the observer of the turd as much on.

Quote from: blakkieEr, why you do something is what 'intent' is about.

And intent != context.

QuoteBut that, suppositly, is towards a social end. Like putting on your pants, that you do by yourself, before showing up at the game.

True, but some folks just like to create. It's not a bad thing.

What about solo modules? Are they a nefarious force for evil that detracts from the socialization of a game?

QuoteI don't think it is a coincidence that you often start seeing problems at the table when the GM starts to move past preparation into effectively preplaying/prescripting the game before showing up at the table?

No, but what does that have to do with someone sitting in their room making up modules, NPCs, and worlds? Which front are you attacking in this thread, because they're definitely seperate issues. Perhaps there's some overlap, but there's no link for causality.

Quote from: James McMurrayNo, but what does that have to do with someone sitting in their room making up modules, NPCs, and worlds? Which front are you attacking in this thread, because they're definitely seperate issues. Perhaps there's some overlap, but there's no link for causality.

So you're saying that if 90% of all people who get in car accidents ate a banana that morning, bananas aren't a leading cause of car accidents?

My worldview has been shattered...

Quote from: TonyLBYou're reaching here.

Exploring really. Just trying to see where the string leads. The source of this image issue of RPGing that I've seen come up. One that has hit LARPing even harder and cruelly. The funny thing is that I see LARPing games being sold in stores that I'd never expect to see an RPG book.  Only they don't put LARP in big bold letters across the cover. Those murder mystery dinner games (which are a lot of fun!) I've seen people attended and even host those that would never consider joining if you invited them to play an "RPG" and may or may not know what a LARP is.

QuoteBeing socially apt or inept is a completely unconnected question.  Writing up character sheets can't make you socially inept any more than not writing up character sheets can make you socially fluent.

Er, this isn't realy about social ineptness at all. It is about the notion of what occurs at an RPG game. About what the draws are and can be.

QuoteNow it sounds like your wife is saying "You are associating with something that my ex- associated with, and therefore you must be socially inept like my ex."

Oddly that isn't an overall opinion that she has of him or his younger brother.  Now of his older brother, yes. But that is based on something entirely different.

P.S. This isn't about blame. It's not even about whose fault it is.

Quote from: WilAnd intent != context.

They are not the same words. But in this case it appears that the intent is the context that mattered.