I was browsing the OP Exalted forums recently and I noticed a few threads discussing the "power" relationship between the different classes of Exalted. As is pretty typical Solars became a major topic and sore point. This thread in particular seemed relevant.,

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/861879-regarding-the-aggiecon-thread-and-solars

In summing what the problem is from some fans perspective. I wonder is there anyway to fix this issue as the setting stands, at least in a manner that doesn't leave some major portion of the fans feeling screwed over. Any thoughts?

Quote from: Nexus;890507I was browsing the OP Exalted forums recently and I noticed a few threads discussing the "power" relationship between the different classes of Exalted. As is pretty typical Solars became a major topic and sore point. This thread in particular seemed relevant.,

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/861879-regarding-the-aggiecon-thread-and-solars

In summing what the problem is from some fans perspective. I wonder is there anyway to fix this issue as the setting stands, at least in a manner that doesn't leave some major portion of the fans feeling screwed over. Any thoughts?

It's about as likely as fixing the LFQW "power relationship" in 3e, just as hard to achieve, and would actually be harmful to emulating the Exalted setting.

Quote from: Nexus;890507I wonder is there anyway to fix this issue as the setting stands, at least in a manner that doesn't leave some major portion of the fans feeling screwed over. Any thoughts?

At the table? Very easy. Ask which splat your players prefer and make that one the most powerful.

In general? Not gonna happen.

Quote from: Luca;890521At the table? Very easy. Ask which splat your players prefer and make that one the most powerful.

In general? Not gonna happen.

...Simple, easy and to the point.  What he said.

Luca nailed it.

Sure there is: just play Godbound and forget Exalted ever existed!

In all seriousness, I can't see any easy fix for the issue.  There may not be one to be frank.

Quote from: Marvelous_Metal_Man;890581Sure there is: just play Godbound and forget Exalted ever existed!

In all seriousness, I can't see any easy fix for the issue.  There may not be one to be frank.

There isn't really an issue anyway.  Not all exalts are equal.  Blam, done.

You want equality between the player options, go play 4th.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;890632There isn't really an issue anyway.  Not all exalts are equal.  Blam, done.

Yeah, this. Changing things at the table works if everyone can agree they want DBs to be as powerful as Solars, for example, but the odds of that happening aren't exactly great. I know my own group didn't have a favorite Exalted type. And trying to balance it out so everyone is the same would be a mess.

Exalted is like the World of Darkness. The playable types just aren't meant to be running around together even though a cursory glance at the character sheets makes it look like it'll be fine if you do that. But all the same, a werewolf who joins a group of mages is going to feel very unnecessary awfully fast unless the players go out of their way to keep such a character relevant.

Yeah I don't see this necessarily a splat power creep issue, where one group is most powerful simply because it's book is 2 years later.  The setting is the setting.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.  

Solars get a bad rap I think because of how the game is structured.  The default original campaign was the Dragon-Blooded run everything and the Solars are complete outcasts.  If Solars didn't have advantages, the game would be Grey Ranks: Creation version.  Also the Solar's superiority is based on the types of powers they have.  All the other crazy Exalteds that have come down the road are all tricksy with charms, abilities etc... that give them a lot of power in a specific area.  Solars don't have all those myriad interlocking thingamajigs (or at least didn't in the beginning), they're just better.  Stronger, Faster, Better-looking.

Spoiler

Kind of like the people that make fun of gamers.  That's a thread for the Pundit's Forum though.

But, they're certainly killable, and everyone hates them.

It's how the world reacts to the characters that's important.  Noldor are going to be very powerful in relation to, say Hobbits, but a Noldor isn't sneaking into Mordor.  Glitterboys are powerful on the battlefield (when they have ammo), but you can't take that armor everywhere you go.  Same via other Rift PCs.

It's not how powerful something is, it's what flaw something has, and how it can be defeated that's important.  Take any big monster anywhere in any game that can kill a PC 1-on-1.  Well, they die every day, don't they, because PCs don't fight them 1-on-1, they use tactics, spells, and each other as force multipliers.

I wouldn't take the Exalt type my players liked best and make them the more powerful ones.  I'd take the more powerful ones and keep in mind their weaknesses and make them apparent.

So much stuff gets labeled as "imbalanced" just because GMs don't properly consider and reflect weaknesses in the setting.

Quote from: Brand55;890659But all the same, a werewolf who joins a group of mages is going to feel very unnecessary awfully fast unless the players go out of their way to keep such a character relevant.

Actually that's not true.  Mages have to worry about Paradox (and actually have to have the correct powers to handle the situation), Garou can rely on the Delirium and are better equipped out of the box (physically at least) to handle things.  A pure combat monster like a Get Ahroun might have less toolkit powers to use then a  Bone-Gnawer Ragabash, but every PC is specialized to a certain degree, even Tradition Mages.

Quote from: CRKrueger;890721Actually that's not true.  Mages have to worry about Paradox (and actually have to have the correct powers to handle the situation), Garou can rely on the Delirium and are better equipped out of the box (physically at least) to handle things.  A pure combat monster like a Get Ahroun might have less toolkit powers to use then a  Bone-Gnawer Ragabash, but every PC is specialized to a certain degree, even Tradition Mages.

Ah, see we're talking about different things here. I was referring to the original New World of Darkness since it's the one I'm most familiar with. Sorry for not making that clear. Paradox really isn't that much of a hindrance to a smart mage player, and it only takes a few dozen XP before even a single mage can utterly outclass anything a werewolf can manage physically. They're also far better at dealing with the spirit world, which is supposed to be a werewolf's specialty. There really isn't anything a werewolf could bring to the table that you wouldn't be better off just adding another mage.

Werewolves are far more powerful in the OWoD from what I've read (I never played or ran it), so you're right on that.

Oh yeah.  Common story among nWoD chat players is how a group of mages went in a spirit battle.  The werewolves who were in combat longer couldn't do much.  Though they might as well sit down and eat popcorn.

Quote from: Snowman0147;890856Oh yeah.  Common story among nWoD chat players is how a group of mages went in a spirit battle.  The werewolves who were in combat longer couldn't do much.  Though they might as well sit down and eat popcorn.

I thought werewolves could sense and acfect spirits in the real world? Or do they have to cross orver to do that, and if it's the latter, wby nit do that and ambush the targets with the maves providing the distraction?

So can mages and they do it better.  Plus it is fucking hard to chip through that +5 mage armor with mundane armor to give it more armor which is legal.  Seriously a good starting level mage with a vest on would have a grand total of 5/6 armor.  That is hell on any one.  Only thing worst is a sin eater with earth shroud which is 8/9 armor.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;890900I thought werewolves could sense and acfect spirits in the real world? Or do they have to cross orver to do that, and if it's the latter, wby nit do that and ambush the targets with the maves providing the distraction?

Yeah, werewolves can sense spirits and even have specific Gifts for dealing with them, but mages are better. And it's doubly bad. Not only were mages better at putting spirits down in combat, they were better at roleplaying with spirits since spirits weren't already hardwired to dislike them.

I know helping werewolves deal with spirits was supposed to be one of the goals of WtF 2E, but the 2nd Edition rules changes were so annoying to me that I never got into it enough to see just how thorough the werewolf buffs went.