So I got a good chunk of my game group back together last weekend and rather than force a restart of the Runequest (still, we will be returning to that eventually) campaign or handing over the GM reigns to another (SAGA! or SR4!) I decided to whomp out a 'short' exalted campaign in part as an expirement.

Only one of my players has any expirence with it, and his GM was undoubtedly 'playing it wrong' as they spent most of their game unexalted farmboys.  

So far we have made characters, but not played, that's for Friday.  

Here is what I've learned:

The game is unbelievably hard to get into on the ground level. Character creation took hours mostly due to charm selection. Looking over combat examples I realized that none of my players will be able to do anything over the top, because all the OTT stuff is 'non-combat' charms. Seriously, a dice adder makes them ungodly successful in combat, but really doesn't necessarily equate earth shattering duels on willow branches or whatever. That shit requires athletics charms.

The game will be unholy difficult for me, the GM to run.  Unless I want the players to stomp all over mundane opponents and lesser threats, I have to go beyond the normal shortcuts I take in prep work. Since it isn't logical in setting to oppose other solars as a majority, I have to then read and use other books! Gah! Dragonblooded charms don't work like solar charms! Double GAH!

So, on the one hand my mad improv skills will be at home in a setting where the PC's are walking demigods able to go where they want and do what they want, on the other hand they will languish on the vine as I can't keep the prep work on fights to a nonexistant minimum.  God forbid my players decide they want to challenge something other than Dragonblooded opponents... that's a whole new book!



I have come up with a few minor glitches/proposed houserules.

First of all, I can't see how picking caste and favored charms really seems to make much sense.  Dawn caste get 'every offensive' skill as a caste abilty, which actually comes across a bit weak, as that means they likely have one thing that they will specialize in (hitting fuckers with swords, say) and four abilities they never touch, while everyone else will have five unique abilities and can still be good at 'hitting fuckers with swords' as a favored ability. Coupled with a 'special ability' that is also somewhat weak: They are intimidating against opponents that can't threaten them anyway? WOOO Impressive!

More: The limited number of charms vs. the sheer volume of charms available, and the nature of the charm trees... low level speedbump charms, for example... tends to reduce the 'spread'.  

So a quickfix: All players get, in addition to their ten starter charms, one charm from every favored ability and TWO from each caste ability.  That's a lot of charms, I know. Two for the caste abilities (one for an excellency one for an actual, you know, charm). This will up the starter power level a bit, but also put more emphasis on those starting choices.



Originally, I had thought to remove combo's entirely. Make every charm available 'on demand' more or less.  Reading the DB charms told me this was  a terrible idea.  Since DB's use more reflexive charms, they don't need combos.  this would completely screw the opposition.

This brings up another quibble I mentioned earlier: while I appreciate the effort to make each 'type' have a unique feel to it, in a game like this where it is expected that each 'type' will be appearing frequently, it is gawdawful annoying to have to keep in mind how each 'type' works, rather than keeping a more universal charmset and simply altering the type's in some other, less involved fashion.  


Hopefully, after a few sessions I will have smoothed out these rough edges a bit and will complain less about the rough work I have to put in just to create a meaningful fight once a week.  I don't have time to plan the first session, I am too busy stating up the god damn opposition! Ugh.

End analysis: Exalted would be a lot of fun to play, certainly I still feel about the same as I did when I picked it up all those years ago, but I don't think I ever will suggest RUNNING it again.

Quote from: SpikeDragonblooded charms don't work like solar charms! Double GAH!

I don't understand this, unless you're talking about them having different adder caps and being able to freely use reflexive charms. The rules the DB charms follow are the same as everyone else.

QuoteSo, on the one hand my mad improv skills will be at home in a setting where the PC's are walking demigods able to go where they want and do what they want, on the other hand they will languish on the vine as I can't keep the prep work on fights to a nonexistant minimum.  God forbid my players decide they want to challenge something other than Dragonblooded opponents... that's a whole new book!

I struggled with this too. //www.patternspider.net is a big help. Although the NPCs, creatures, etc. that people have posted there are mostly first edition, the differences in character sheets are minimal so you can mostly just port them over.

QuoteFirst of all, I can't see how picking caste and favored charms really seems to make much sense.  Dawn caste get 'every offensive' skill as a caste abilty, which actually comes across a bit weak, as that means they likely have one thing that they will specialize in (hitting fuckers with swords, say) and four abilities they never touch, while everyone else will have five unique abilities and can still be good at 'hitting fuckers with swords' as a favored ability. Coupled with a 'special ability' that is also somewhat weak: They are intimidating against opponents that can't threaten them anyway? WOOO Impressive!

One of the big times it'll start to matter is with training times. A Dawn Caste focused on hitting shit with his sword but suddenly finding himself trapped in a clinch can spend XP and instantly be better at Martial Arts. Likewise if he finds himself having to shoot someone from across the room.

QuoteSo a quickfix: All players get, in addition to their ten starter charms, one charm from every favored ability and TWO from each caste ability.  That's a lot of charms, I know. Two for the caste abilities (one for an excellency one for an actual, you know, charm). This will up the starter power level a bit, but also put more emphasis on those starting choices.

I'd recommend just giving them a crapload more XP for the first few sessions. the more stuff you hand them, the harder it'll be for them to learn the basics of the system.

QuoteHopefully, after a few sessions I will have smoothed out these rough edges a bit and will complain less about the rough work I have to put in just to create a meaningful fight once a week.  I don't have time to plan the first session, I am too busy stating up the god damn opposition! Ugh.

Make your first session be the demo adventure downloadable from white wolf's website. It's designed to teach the game in increments while ensuring that every PC has at least one chance to display his caste's uniqueness. It also touches the four corners of Creation, making for a nice whirlwind tour.

Apart from about 10 pages of rules, everything the players need is written on their 2-page character sheet.

Quote from: SpikeMore: The limited number of charms vs. the sheer volume of charms available, and the nature of the charm trees... low level speedbump charms, for example... tends to reduce the 'spread'.

Are you playing 1st edition or 2nd edition? While 1st ed had a lot of speedbump charms, 2nd ed has very few.  

QuoteSo a quickfix: All players get, in addition to their ten starter charms, one charm from every favored ability and TWO from each caste ability.

For 2E it's pretty simple to just give characters an excellency charm in each favoured or caste ability. I'd be very wary of giving the players more charms than they can reasonably learn to use at the start.

QuoteI don't have time to plan the first session, I am too busy stating up the god damn opposition! Ugh.

You know that you can cheat, right? You don't need to give DBs full stats, especially if they are jsut around for cannon fodder. Just give them an attack pool and DV together with a few basic charm effects (i.e. dice adders) and one or two individual elementally themed charms each. They probably won't last long enough to use more than that anyway.

One of the upsides about 1st Ed. is that you can pick up used books for pretty cheap now. It's kind of a drag to have to buy books for fully realized NPC opposition, and I was a little unhappy that Exalted followed in the same grand line as other WoD books, forcing me to make my own monsters every time I wanted to fight one (unless I want to fight the same Blood Ape over and over.).

If you're using 2nd Ed., 1st Ed. books might be worth buying just so you have a good idea of what Charms are supposed to look like and just port them over. Yay! It's a full additional step between coming up with your adventure and playing! But it might work ok. The NPC problem alone was one of my biggest pet peeves with Exalted. I would have liked a book that was little but crunch, filled with antagonist stat blocs.

I've been running 2e but have used a lot of 1e materials. Outside of the tick system, the two games are a lot alike, and conversion is usually pretty easy.

I actually have a good chunk of 1e books.  Its the 2e books that I have in limited supply, being only the main and the DB books.

Unlike other games I am extremely reluctant to cheat too extensively on the NPC's... in part to prevent the opposition from being 'too easy' and in part because the charms are a bit more central to how things play out than, say, feats are.

Exalted really is one of those games that lies to its readers.  No, the game is not self-contained; you need at least the Storyteller's Screen (and its overflow book) to be able to fake the other Exalt types adequately, especially with players that have experience or knowledge of the game, and you are best served by having the main book, the screen, Wonders of the First Age (even in Exalted, gear matters), the Dragonblooded book and your choice of Terrestrial Direction book (by default, Scavenger Lands).

And then, you're still likely to make the mistake of using Exalt-level opposition for anything at all challenging.  It is best to use the combat rules--Battle, Debate and War--as they are at first because this is where the game comes closest to making good gameplay also produce good drama.

Exalted is overly complicated. It's a nightmare IMO. It really suffers from this. There's also too much in it.

Exalted also fails to deliver on the CCG-like combat and the fact that flurries are the best strategy of whittling down an opponent pisses me off to no end.

don't you mean video game like?

Quote from: signoftheserpentExalted is overly complicated. It's a nightmare IMO. It really suffers from this. There's also too much in it.

Says you.

No, seriously. That's like saying GURPS is too fiddly, or D&D has too many Feats. In fact, I guess D&D is the best thing to compare it to, but my point is that while the system has its detractors, some people enjoy it. I like playing with Charms.

No. I meant CCG. I recognized from the very beginning that Exalted doesn't do CRPG combat very well (for starters, outside of Lunars, combat healing is a bitch).

Why should Exalted want to emulate a computer game?

I don't know. In a game that supposedly harkens back to such epics like the Mahabharata and Ramayama and lists video games like Final Fantasy 7 and Dynasty Warriors amongst its inspiration sources, where heroes regularly get turn into pincushions but can recover in seconds, you would expect combat to play out like a CRPG. Perish the thought.

Quote from: DeadUematsuNo. I meant CCG. I recognized from the very beginning that Exalted doesn't do CRPG combat very well (for starters, outside of Lunars, combat healing is a bitch).

I was thinking more arcade fighters, what with all the limit break stuff (from 1st ed at least).