Quote from: Orphan81;814488From what I saw from the Playtest material, the whole idea of humans somehow having a chance against the Exalted is kinda B.S. I think they're saying it more to appease the people who want that more than any truth of the matter..

It seems like as the playtest materials were written, Exalted all get an inherent excellency with every favored ability...

Well since at least one of those is always going to be a Combat skill of some kind...it's really all you need to kill any mortal you come across. The Excellency alone will let you take down any mortal one on one... So I don't get this whole "Mortals are going to kill Exalted!" thing there saying..

Groups of Mortals might be able to, but none of them 1 on 1 will.

Its very much a numbers game from what I can tell. One on one, in a situation where you don't have to hold back. A combat focused Exalt might be able to steam roll your typical mortal, but they'll burn through resources an the hero to zero aspect of Essence is still very much in play so you'll be victorious but weakened and more vulnerable (and likely glowing) so it likely to become a case of "win the battle, lose the war". And there's still a fair chance of just getting beaten by things more than mooks.

And change the odds even to two on one and the situation and odds in the Exalts favor decline rapidly. What would be termed "persistent defenses" in 2ed are drastically cut back making defense against multiple opponents a more expensive endeavor and penalties can rack up fast. Call me a crazed power gamer but I do think being defined as the warriors of Gods and some of the most powerful beings in the setting should be able to handle more than one trained town guards without being overly pressed as it looks on paper.

But I do want to run some test fights at some point but the current Exalt vs Exalt battle is going so slowly the final pdf might actually be out by the time its over.

Quote from: Kiero;814489There's no "could" about it. They made the wrong design choice right at the start, by failing to bin the shitty Storyteller system, which doesn't scale up at all, and starting from scratch.

I really think that's the real reason (or a major one) for the power down. Storyteller doesn't handle high end games very well. That's been true of all the iterations of it I've played with Scion and Aberrant being particularly egregious examples. So much so that the fact effected the game's presentation and reception, IMO, when players and the developers struggled to get the mechanics and the fluff to match up.

Quote from: Orphan81;814488From what I saw from the Playtest material, the whole idea of humans somehow having a chance against the Exalted is kinda B.S. I think they're saying it more to appease the people who want that more than any truth of the matter..

It seems like as the playtest materials were written, Exalted all get an inherent excellency with every favored ability...

Well since at least one of those is always going to be a Combat skill of some kind...it's really all you need to kill any mortal you come across. The Excellency alone will let you take down any mortal one on one... So I don't get this whole "Mortals are going to kill Exalted!" thing there saying..

Groups of Mortals might be able to, but none of them 1 on 1 will.

"I've looked at an old pre revisions document I pirated and thus have a deep understanding of the combat system and it's capabilities. Congratulations.

QuoteThere's no "could" about it. They made the wrong design choice right at the start, by failing to bin the shitty Storyteller system, which doesn't scale up at all, and starting from scratch. Not "rebuilding from the ground up" (of which there's little evidence so far they've really done anything of the sort), but flushing the crap away and starting all over again with something actually purpose-built for the task. Doesn't matter how much glitter and polish you put on a turd, it's still a turd.

You're on the design team? Sweet.

QuoteAs for waiting and seeing, well, perhaps in 2017 you might get to do that. Or maybe 2018. Or 2025. Or never. Good luck with that.
Today 03:10 AM

Or about a month? Yeah I'm going with a month sport.

QuoteI guess this is in your totally unbiased and objective opinion, right?

Idiots sucking down their own "kool aid? Oh the irony. You're black too, Kettle. That thread on rpg.net borders on masturbatory.

Potential sport, you really need to learn to read.

QuoteDon't forget Getimanns, or however you spell it. I wasn't aware of the two Lunar "foils" until recently and judging from the reaction in the thread I wasn't alone in that. Information about the game has been incredibly spotty and, prone to change. That's one of things that pissing people off. You just don't get to hear about on rpg.net.

The Gets are the Sidereal foil, keep up sport.

QuoteThe problem with 2ed combat wasn't that it made characters "too powerful" but that it didn't work and produced dull, repetitive fights. That Exalts could power through mortals. Exalts -should- win through sheer power. That was kinda the point to being a Demigod. Not being a Conan rip off that glowed from time to time. It is, or was a game about dealing with power and its consequences.

Finish the thought sport. It produced dull combat because mote economy was a necessary outgrowth of paranoid combat which was an outgrowth of the lethality and Solars btw had the best tools for dealing with it.

So far I'm just seeing a bunch of people with their heads stuck so far up their own asses they don't even realize their confirmation bias. Good luck dwelling in this shithole corner of the internet no one cares about.

Quote from: MrMephistopheles;814543You're on the design team? Sweet.

It doesn't take being on the design team to think Storyteller sucks as a system for Exalted so using...Storyteller with a little glitter and new bits isn't a good choice.
.

QuoteThe Gets are the Sidereal foil, keep up sport.

The subject was new types of Exalted being introduced. Take your own advice.

QuoteFinish the thought sport.

Sure. 2ed combat was a dull war of attrition which 3rd seem to be as well except for having more things to track and a initiative system that doesn't require its own special tool but is just a PIA. So there's that. I guess.

What that has to with dropping the power level and scope of the game I have little idea aside from the shitty Storyteller scales high really poorly.

So far I'm just seeing a bunch of people with their heads stuck so far up their own asses they don't even realize their confirmation bias. Good luck dwelling in this shithole corner of the internet no one cares about.[/QUOTE]

Ooo, somebody is cranky...

Look I understand. You;re emotionally and perhaps financially invested in this impending sinkhole so you've got to blow off steam by showing us all how big your internet balls are by calling us scandalous names like "sport"

Nerdrage happens to us all at some point.

Or maybe you're just an asshole?

At least in this "shithole" you can do so without sucking mod dick on an increasingly irrelevant site that's becoming a joke. And I'm having a Hell of time here. Thank you! Try it for awhile you might like it. I mean, this rant of yours might have gotten you banned over the TBP. Maybe because it was directed at approved targets.

And better your head up your own ass than your nose wedged firmly between Holden and Morke's buttocks.

But since we're assigning nicknames, can I call you Bubbles?

Quote from: MrMephistopheles;814543You're on the design team? Sweet.

Right, because they're the only people with the skill and nous to recognise a turd when they see it. Never mind that a not-insignificant number of supposed "developers" of any system display little understanding of how their games actually work. Or of having done any meaningful playtesting.

But hey, keep telling yourself those gurus know exactly what they're doing and will somehow manage to contort one of the worst systems ever designed for doing scale into something salvageable. Let alone playable.

Quote from: MrMephistopheles;814543Or about a month? Yeah I'm going with a month sport.

You can dream, you're already swept up in the delusion that Ex3 will be anything but crap.

Quote from: Nexus;814549But since we're assigning nicknames, can I call you Bubbles?

I'm for calling him Bubbles... Yes Bubbles is fine with me.

Anyway I do agree with your earlier points, it really does seem like if you throw 2 competent mortals at an Exalted, they're going to be in serious trouble, after seeing what we know so far about the combat rules.

The other thing that worries me, is like you stated earlier, keeping track of all the fiddly bits in combat..

As it was, Exalted in 1st edition and gawd forbid let alone 2nd edition, was always difficult in terms of keeping every NPC straight with all of their abilities, mote pools, charms, and weapon stats..

But this one seems like it's going to be even worse...2 health tracks for every character, one of which fluctuates from action to action, regenerating essence pools...It doesn't seem like it'll be very friendly to the Storyteller..

There's a part of me that looks at the rules and says "If I were 22 years old again...and had lots of free time with my friends once more...this might be awesome.."

But at 33 and only a few hours a week (When that) to run games for my friends, I just don't think I have the time to invest in this kind of game anymore.

Quote from: Orphan81;814556Anyway I do agree with your earlier points, it really does seem like if you throw 2 competent mortals at an Exalted, they're going to be in serious trouble, after seeing what we know so far about the combat rules.

Yeah, In the end it seems to boil down to expectations. Calling the Exalted "Superheroes" just doesn't ring true to me when they have to be very concerned about fighting "mundanes" even if its not "as" concerned as another mundane. I'm used to playing characters that are simply somewhat ahead of the curve. Its not what I signed up for with Exalted.

A similar issue comes up with the "gods". Gods in Exalted would be "spirits" or just plain monsters in most other fantasy games, not what many think of when they imagine gods (or Gods). Eh, its a setting thing but seems allot like a similar bait and switch to Aberrant.

Quote from: Orphan81;814556There's a part of me that looks at the rules and says "If I were 22 years old again...and had lots of free time with my friends once more...this might be awesome.."

In fairness, that might be their target market.

One thing that would definitely help and wouldn't be hard to implement is simplifying some of the charms. Allot of them, at least in combat, are very conditional with little "gotcha" clauses that are easy to forget.

Quote from: MrMephistopheles;814543So far I'm just seeing a bunch of people with their heads stuck so far up their own asses they don't even realize their confirmation bias. Good luck dwelling in this shithole corner of the internet no one cares about.

Apparently YOU cared enough to write.

JG

Quote from: Kiero;814552You can dream, you're already swept up in the delusion that Ex3 will be anything but crap.

It might be a month. Eventually one of the proposed release dates won't be bullshit. But I wouldn't bet any money on it and feel a little sorry for those that in effect have.

*rubs face* Well a mortal can kill an Exalted but it would take suprise or a lot of them fighting as a unit with enough Magnitude to over whelm the Exalted initiative recovery. (Doable). Oooor a quick draw expert forcing a clash attack on the Exalt. But doing that will most likely kill the mortal to.

If an Exalt is built right for mass combat and dealing with surprises you'll need some magic. Either a friendly god, ghosts, or another Exalt.

I can see why a it takes the Wyld hunt using a team of DBs to force a Solar to no init leaving him/her open to killing blows. They would have enough essence to recover for a while...but eventually stunts and essence refresh won't be enough.

I can't go into specifics until the pdf drops, but I can say I love the new abstractions for combat and it flows nicely. One thing that will help is everyone having a d20  at the table to keep track of current init. Old MtG counters will be a godsend. Which is way easier than the old battle wheel.

Quote from: Mostlyjoe;814660*rubs face* Well a mortal can kill an Exalted but it would take suprise or a lot of them fighting as a unit with enough Magnitude to over whelm the Exalted initiative recovery. (Doable). Oooor a quick draw expert forcing a clash attack on the Exalt. But doing that will most likely kill the mortal to.

If an Exalt is built right for mass combat and dealing with surprises you'll need some magic. Either a friendly god, ghosts, or another Exalt.

Interesting! That seems contradictory to much of what's been gone on about in other Exalted threads. I'll have to see if play tests bear it out.

Quote from: Nexus;814662Interesting! That seems to contradictory to much of what's been gone on about in other Exalted threads. I'll have to see if play tests bear it out.

People are forgetting that init refresh has limitations  and units have options to recover magnitude. The new gambits and flurry rules work for mixing up these options.

Don't get me wrong Dawns in specific and Solars in general are beasts but foes who use good group tactics, defend each other, and buy their friends opening eventually even high  essence  Exalts will go down. But it will be costly. Which is as it should be.

Quote from: Mostlyjoe;814664People are forgetting that init refresh has limitations  and units have options to recover magnitude. The new gambits and flurry rules work for mixing up these options.

Not sure I get what you mean here?

QuoteDon't get me wrong Dawns in specific and Solars in general are beasts but foes who use good group tactics, defend each other, and buy their friends opening eventually even high  essence  Exalts will go down. But it will be costly. Which is as it should be.

I think that's matter of taste but that does seem to be the intended paradigm for the new edition. Though they have been talking it up quite differently.

I'm not under nda but I'm honoring the Devs wishes. One the pdf drops I'll drop my Exalted Combat 301 on my blog with specific examples.

There is thing like weapon tags, gambits, mixed group tactics that people are ignoring. Hell the new flurry rule applies as well.

Quote from: Mostlyjoe;814669I'm not under nda but I'm honoring the Devs wishes. One the pdf drops I'll drop my Exalted Combat 301 on my blog with specific examples.

There is thing like weapon tags, gambits, mixed group tactics that people are ignoring. Hell the new flurry rule applies as well.

Where you a play tester?

Quote from: Mostlyjoe;814664Don't get me wrong Dawns in specific and Solars in general are beasts but foes who use good group tactics, defend each other, and buy their friends opening eventually even high  essence  Exalts will go down. But it will be costly. Which is as it should be.

The Hunt should be an actual threat to PCs.  But again, it's an issue of a Storyteller (based) game promising players all sorts of supernatural power and delivering not much.

jg