Anyone still trying to plow through this beast? Frankly, I've become so burned out I largely don't care anymore.

I am waiting for the book to be released before I make any judgement on Ex3. My hopes aren't high, but I have avoided any pre-release information as it was more likely to lower those hopes than raise them.

Quote from: Skywalker;826446I am waiting for the book to be released before I make any judgement on Ex3. My hopes aren't high, but I have avoided any pre-release information as it was more likely to lower those hopes than raise them.

It certainly lowered mine which weren't high to begin with. Getting a look at what's more or less the final product beyond some polishing isn't doing much better but I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

At the moment, the thing is the rules are so damn....dense. The rule set is okay. There are some nice aspects (Sorcerous Working are neat for that they do) but not the mind blowing hot buttered awesome its being pimped as and I don't agree with some of the assumptions. Its also not "rebuilt from the ground up" at least not so you can tell.

But the rules are big and I don't see them cutting them down too much. I think they have to get it under 900 pages? For my preferences for this sort of game that's way way to much in rules department but I don't it being cut in half between now and release. Even discounting fiction and setting material.

Quote from: Nexus;826466But the rules are big and I don't see them cutting them down too much.

TBH I don't think they ever stated that cutting down the rules was ever a design goal. Looking at the Scroll of Errata, their method has consistently been to build up the rules to patch up the holes.

Quote from: Skywalker;826683TBH I don't think they ever stated that cutting down the rules was ever a design goal.

I don't recall if they said that either and I didn't say it was. but the density of the rules was a fairly common issue and there was some hope that they'd be slimmed down (even completely rewritten) to be easier to handle. That hasn't happened, in fact the opposite has occurred. The rules are bigger, more intricate and if you felt (like I did) this was a problem before this has worsened it. Excessive rules bloat was something I was worried about given that' the nature of the "Ink Monkeys" errata but I held out some hope that could be avoided if they were indeed rebuilding the system from the ground up as the holes that needed such extensive patch work could be avoided.

And its more than just the rules. There's much more in the way of fiddly bits to deal with. Over 700 charms not counting Martial Arts (I think there's 11 styles with 9-10 charm each), spells, artifacts, etc with more to come in future books. Each of them a self contained little rules exception or subsystem.

Quote from: Nexus;826686That hasn't happened, in fact the opposite has occurred. The rules are bigger, more intricate and if you felt (like I did) this was a problem before this has worsened it.

Yeah. This was ultimate fear with Exalted 3e from everything I knew before it KSed. I expect that it will go down like D&D4e did for D&D.

The real problem with the approach is that from a purely mechanical POV it is defendable as there will be an objective improvement to the rules. But only if you also completely dismiss the greater context that makes RPGs fun to play, which many are prepared to do. I can see this fuelling the usual inane and counter-productive debates that have plagued Exalted for years to come.

Overall, I am happy that I decided to stick with Exalted 1e (admittedly using my 2e books as reference).

lol...objective improvement...there is no such thing. Sure, the fanboys will insist on it all day long...but they will also tell you that the Devs shit gold and that the sky is yellow.

I think they totally cheated us out of the promised "rebuilt from the ground up" and the "streamlined" promises. That were goals/promises they made. And all the twisting and re-defining of said words will not help them keep face in respect to that.

Will there be some players who will enjoy 3e infinitely more than 2e? Well sure. The fanbase is there, as the discussion on rpg.net shows (and on the OPP forums) ... but for all those that hoped for a new kind of Exalted experience...it will be an epic disappointment...kind of an Essence 10 elder disappointment

The good news is, that when Exalted 4e hits the shelves, US Army will never again go to war with insufficient kevlar vests, as there'll be a cheap alternative ready.

Quote from: Anglachel;826711lol...objective improvement...there is no such thing. Sure, the fanboys will insist on it all day long...but they will also tell you that the Devs shit gold and that the sky is yellow.

I think they totally cheated us out of the promised "rebuilt from the ground up" and the "streamlined" promises. That were goals/promises they made. And all the twisting and re-defining of said words will not help them keep face in respect to that.

Will there be some players who will enjoy 3e infinitely more than 2e? Well sure. The fanbase is there, as the discussion on rpg.net shows (and on the OPP forums) ... but for all those that hoped for a new kind of Exalted experience...it will be an epic disappointment...kind of an Essence 10 elder disappointment

Yeah. The setting focus has shifted pretty 180 degrees away from what brought me and my group into the game in the first place. Even better that if you say that you get treated like the game was never pushed because of those things in the first place. The system hasn't really improved that much so that's more of a lateral move and bloat. Though it does seem to be more functional now (though 2e did too until months later).

This 100-page thread will serve as an example of how theRPGsite talks about more than just old school; and furthermore, as how you can have long and successful threads about games I not only don't give a fuck about, but actively dislike.

Quote from: RPGPundit;827020This 100-page thread will serve as an example of how theRPGsite talks about more than just old school; and furthermore, as how you can have long and successful threads about games I not only don't give a fuck about, but actively dislike.

im pretty sure you said that eariler in the thread the first time it was a nice reminder of how great this place is now you just come across as look at me im so great

although the fact i could say that without any fear is itself a great example of how great this place is

I was initially optimistic with a new edition but over time I realized that a) the rule system is shit, b) the fan-base is absolutely rabid, c) I have no confidence in that the developers will be able to turn out a good setting / rule set and d) the setting doesn't do for it for me any longer. I liked the more ancient heroes and gods vibe I got from the 1st edition but the angling towards Manga / Anime does not thrill me as much. Nothing wrong with Manga / Anime it is not just something I fancy as much these days.

Quote from: Nexus;826372Anyone still trying to plow through this beast? Frankly, I've become so burned out I largely don't care anymore.

I gave up after I got halfway through the charms section.  3e just isn't worth the effort.  Sure there are some good bits like Sorcery, but on a whole, it's just a mediocre repackaging of 1e with all its faults and failings.  I say grab the handful of good concepts 3e presents and trash the rest.

Quote from: nitril;827105I was initially optimistic with a new edition but over time I realized that a) the rule system is shit, b) the fan-base is absolutely rabid, c) I have no confidence in that the developers will be able to turn out a good setting / rule set and d) the setting doesn't do for it for me any longer. I liked the more ancient heroes and gods vibe I got from the 1st edition but the angling towards Manga / Anime does not thrill me as much. Nothing wrong with Manga / Anime it is not just something I fancy as much these days.

The fanbase seems to border on the obsessive but they're also divisive as Hell. Everyone has their own personal vision of "true Exalted" and is rabid about defending it against all comers. Each edition has allowed another group to reach ascendency and becomes the Council of Truth that decides what the game is "really" about and purge the heretics. Until that vision falls fro, popularity or the rule set fails them then them the whole mess starts all over again.