Quote from: The Butcher;821627It's a project led by White Wolf ex-employees and RPGnet mods that's headed for utter, dismal failure.

I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if the game was a complete dud, but I just don't see it happening. They've already raked in too much money and there are too many rabid fans who will eat anything OP puts out without complaint. The 2nd edition of the game was an utter disaster mechanically (and fluff-wise in many ways) but the thing still sold like crazy even after fans had seen years of mistake after mistake build up into a tsunami of awfulness.

Quote from: Brand55;821646I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if the game was a complete dud, but I just don't see it happening. They've already raked in too much money and there are too many rabid fans who will eat anything OP puts out without complaint. The 2nd edition of the game was an utter disaster mechanically (and fluff-wise in many ways) but the thing still sold like crazy even after fans had seen years of mistake after mistake build up into a tsunami of awfulness.

Not a monetary failure, true.

But they're *way* behind the schedule they set themselves and I'm not sure they can count on inexhaustible fan goodwill, even with the perennial, cultish Exalted thing going on over at RPGnet.

And a good chunk of the fanbase has decried the divulged system changes as immaterial in that they don't fix the Charms mess.

So, as a crowdfunded project and as a rewrite, I'd say it's shambling towards failure.

If any thing the charms had gotten worst.

I feel the reaction to the charms will play a major part in the game's reception. But seems like most of them people pushing for something simpler had moved on to other systems (or just given up) at this point, the few holds being chased out in the post 3rd announcement purge of heretics

Exalted does have an large and devoted fanbase. Like was said earlier, the idea of another edition of Exalted made a quarter of a million dollars for Kickstarter just for extras. That's got to impressive, particularly in the rpg market. I mean you have fans planning Exalted themed weddings, FFS.

At least on rpg.net it seems to have brought in a good number of new members and several that have been members for years but have single digit post counts so the their may be quite a silent mass of fans there and out in the world. As intensely as I dislik what its become I doubt it will fail any most any sense.

The current tangential debate is about the fluff changes to an antagonist. The changes are apparently to allow for more subtle, nuance and shades of Gray in the setting as part of the goal of making it more like 1e. Which makes me wonder about why they've seemingly decided to make the Usurpation against the First Age Solars black and white.

If they make the mad ghosts that serve the neverborn and the demons of yozi any where close to good guys then...  Well I can't do any thing, but this is butchering the setting.  I mean with the neverborn they want to destroy all existence and the yozi are corrupting with their madness.  

The only inhuman enemy that has any form of gray is the fae of the wyld and that is because the primordials fuck them over.  They are literally just trying to repair the damage that was done in their home.

Its another part of the setting vision for 3rd I'll have to file under "Do Not Want". It doesn't seem be hardwired into the mechancs (The GC is pretty easy to ignore) so its not a deal breaker. The choice just puzzles me.

Its weird how many posters the Exalted threads are bringing out of the woodwork. Either people that seemed to join just to post in it and have been members for years, a decade in the latest case but have post counts in the single or double digits.

Quote from: Nexus;823882Its weird how many posters the Exalted threads are bringing out of the woodwork. Either people that seemed to join just to post in it and have been members for years, a decade in the latest case but have post counts in the single or double digits.

Exalted, I feel, is one of the great unfulfilled promises of the hobby. It was released at a time when D&D was being badly mismanaged and WW was still perceived as a dynamic, edgy newcomer. It chucked zero-to-hero in favor of superheroic protagonists, ostensibly drawing from the epics of Antiquity as well as East Asian pop culture (manga and anime) which hadn't been quite as widely and exhaustively tapped by tabletop RPGs as they've been today.

2e was already a missed opportunity in that it amplified, rather than rectified 1e's mechanical shortcomings. 3e promises to escalate into undebatable clusterfuck territory.

So, speaking strictly for myself, yeah, I'm fucking bitter. You know how some of us, myself included, sometimes whine that Palladium should get their shit together and give their books an overhaul? This is several orders of magnitude worse.

Seconding the Butcher, to a large extent.  Exalted has a huge amount of promise in the backgrounds and themes, and at least claimed it was aiming for both mechanically and thematically whole games where most other options didn't really even try to avoid PunPun.

Quote from: Snowman0147;823874If they make the mad ghosts that serve the neverborn and the demons of yozi any where close to good guys then...  Well I can't do any thing, but this is butchering the setting.  I mean with the neverborn they want to destroy all existence and the yozi are corrupting with their madness.  

Eh, even in v1, the Demons were explicitly prisoners of war that were really convenient to use, if you overlook the part where you're magically binding prisoners of war, many of which didn't fight or have a choice during the war itself.  Some of them like blood apes deserved it, but Neomah were hookers with hearts of gold since day one.

Making the Mad Ghosts That Serve the Neverborn not have hilariously overblown conquer the world schemes and kitten-kicking contests is kinda disappointing, though.

Except their price for their job is to strip a piece of flesh from you which they use that flesh to create more Neomah.  Basicly doing harm to you as well as making more mad hookers.  Now given you can say no, but that still doesn't change the fact your dealing with a mad creature that spreads corruption even if they have a heart of gold.

Its amusing that you stand much less chance of getting modhammered for criticizing Onyx Path games on the Onyx Path forums than on TBP these days.

Quote from: Snowman0147;823953Except their price for their job is to strip a piece of flesh from you which they use that flesh to create more Neomah.  Basicly doing harm to you as well as making more mad hookers.  Now given you can say no, but that still doesn't change the fact your dealing with a mad creature that spreads corruption even if they have a heart of gold.

I don't think they make Neomah out of the captured flesh.  The 2E version makes humanish babies out of it and didn't really understand how to care for em.  (I think the 1E version were just implied to eat it, but I don't have 1E Rolls of Divinity anymore.)  Neither's good, obviously, but not Ultimate Evil of Evils, either.

 If you heard that there's a bordello full of Neomah in Gem, it could well be setting information or a plot lead, rather than The Big Quest for the location and every player dropping everything and burning the place down.  Not least of all cause that'd probably be the least unethical house of prostitution in several miles.

Quote from: Snowman0147;823953Except their price for their job is to strip a piece of flesh from you which they use that flesh to create more Neomah.  Basicly doing harm to you as well as making more mad hookers.  Now given you can say no, but that still doesn't change the fact your dealing with a mad creature that spreads corruption even if they have a heart of gold.

I forget which version but, AIR, Neomah demand flesh for their services and use that flesh to craft unique lifeforms and new demons. To them it is art. They're also contracted by sorcerers to create children for the infertile or for couples that can't otherwise have children like homosexual couples. They also love body arts and often have allot of piercing and tattoos on their otherwise hairless, androgynous bodies. They can shapeshift to a limited degree to meet their clients expectations. I wouldn't say they had a heart of gold exactly, they weren't overtly cruel or malicious but more business like with some artistic temperament, IIRC. Sexual favors weren't a big deal for them.

Which made the outrage over the succubi like creatures Numeara ironic...

I don't remember if they care for the children they produce. I remember Hopping Puppeteers like human children but have no clue how to care for them so tend to "cuddle" and "play" with them until they break.

Quote from: Nexus;823988Its amusing that you stand much less chance of getting modhammered for criticizing Onyx Path games on the Onyx Path forums than on TBP these days.

Modhammering is not Onyx Path's raison d'etre.

JG