Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;810854I'm really shocked by how damn arrogant they are. I loved the line of where Stephen says Exalted 3 wont be able to be broken. 4e was breakable and a ton mechanically tighter than Exalted 3 will ever dream of being. M&M3 is breakable if you put the time and effort into it.

  Well, to be precise, he said he was looking forward to seeing people try to break it.

  But I remember seeing a designer or developer make a similar boast many years ago--"Go ahead and min/max. The game won't break." And that was with a much cleaner base and much more extensive playtesting than Exalted seems to have received.

  The game? Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;811273Well, to be precise, he said he was looking forward to seeing people try to break it.

  But I remember seeing a designer or developer make a similar boast many years ago--"Go ahead and min/max. The game won't break." And that was with a much cleaner base and much more extensive playtesting than Exalted seems to have received.

  The game? Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition.

Hell, wasn't 4th toted as being unbreakable?

I can't say with certainty, but that didn't seem to bear out either, from what I understand.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;811318Hell, wasn't 4th toted as being unbreakable?

I can't say with certainty, but that didn't seem to bear out either, from what I understand.

Its like how every plan is foolproof until a particularly talented fool comes along.

I have a friend figure out how to get a half-orc in 4th edition to grip you to death with 11d6 out of the gate.  Just saying any system can be broke.

Though to be fair, some of the ways people have claimed to "break the game" were just players and/or GMs misreading the rules. Reading-comprehension is a skill that not many have "put points into" in RL, it seems :banghead:

Although "writing concise and non-interpretable rules" is an art not many game-designers have.

Quote from: leetsepeak;18675037So I'm a new World of Darkness player tentatively interested in Exalted, but I have a few questions. In terms of tone and relationship, does Exalted still have a connection with the Old World of Darkness? I have the essential buy in of characters are very powerful and I'm okay with that, but how gonzo does the setting go? Are players typically tackling big giant epic adventures, or is there room for actually interacting with the setting as well?

Quote from: hatewheel;186756041) Yes and no. It's not something we intend to be clear on, or to outright contradict.
2) You do get powerful enough to flip tables on the setting, but it is a bit harder to just pave over what's there in this edition.
3) You can start with EX3 and understand everything that's going on.

Here's another attitude I've seen a great deal in the Exalted community: that being powerful enough to actually effect changes with out it being the focus of an entire campaign prevents you from "interacting with the setting". I thought one of the founding points of the game was what would you do with extreme power including how you could change the world?

Really "interacting with the setting" seems to mean "getting punted around by the setting and the important folks in it".

Quote from: Nexus;811834Here's another attitude I've seen a great deal in the Exalted community: that being powerful enough to actually effect changes with out it being the focus of an entire campaign prevents you from "interacting with the setting". I thought one of the founding points of the game was what would you do with extreme power including how you could change the world?

Really "interacting with the setting" seems to mean "getting punted around by the setting and the important folks in it".

Again, that's par for the course with these guys.  "You've just been inducted into the Secret World that really runs things.  As a coffee boy."

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;812014Again, that's par for the course with these guys.  "You've just been inducted into the Secret World that really runs things.  As a coffee boy."

JG

And after a hard fought campaign full intrigue, betrayal and loss you might one day work your way up....head coffee boy. Shortly before being killed by one of your better for getting them a tall half shot mocha latte instead of a tall half shot caramel redeye.

Quote from: Nexus;812054And after a hard fought campaign full intrigue, betrayal and loss you might one day work your way up....head coffee boy. Shortly before being killed by one of your better for getting them a tall half shot mocha latte instead of a tall half shot caramel redeye.

Welcome to the World of Suckage.  Now watch us rub it in on Exalted.

Quote from: Snowman0147;812107Welcome to the World of Suckage.  Now watch us rub it in on Exalted.

I think that's where much of the "Lets Empower mortals!" thing comes from, making the sure PCs don't get to uppity or feel too empowered. But still allows for factious claims of "power"

"Hey, it takes two back alley thugs to beat you like a red haired step child now, you're twice as powerful! (Of course one still can beat you if just won't be as bad now...)."

Quote from: Warboss Squee;811318Hell, wasn't 4th toted as being unbreakable?

I can't say with certainty, but that didn't seem to bear out either, from what I understand.

I don't know if it was toted as that but the developers seemed to try hard to keep putting out bug fixes to keep exploits and things from being over powered. It was a ton of work and that was with 4e which was a much more transparent system than Exalted 3 will likely be.

Quote from: Anglachel;811476Though to be fair, some of the ways people have claimed to "break the game" were just players and/or GMs misreading the rules. Reading-comprehension is a skill that not many have "put points into" in RL, it seems :banghead:

Although "writing concise and non-interpretable rules" is an art not many game-designers have.

I had a similar problem on another board with a 5e D&D discussion. I wanted to house rule and buff something up because it looked weak to me. People told me it was fine and didn't need a house rule. I asked how... turns out they were ignoring or didn't read a significant section of the rules. So yeah writing rules clearly and concisely really is a talent. Then you have to have people read those rules.

Of course it doesn't matter if the main idea is horrible flawed.

Quote from: Kiero;810212To be honest, I think most of the GMC updates are superfluous bloat that adds little. With two exceptions: the change to the basics of the combat mechanics (something most people had been doing anyway) and to XP.

Don't forget the near-complete re-engineering of the Integrity rules.

Quote from: The Butcher;810222I think I'll cave in and get GMC and V:tR 2e. Or maybe I should wait for WoD 2e proper?

I would say get V:tR 2E if you want to run Vampire stuff with the new rules, since it's complete in one book (unlike the previous edition) so you don't need to get the GMC (or use your WoD core book with it) in order to run or play it.

As for GMC, I'd say only get it if you are particularly keen to use the God-Machine setting content (if you're interested in Demon: the Descent it's particularly useful for giving that game context) - otherwise I'd wait for WoD 2E.

The integrity rules are one of the few things I like since you get to determine your own breaking points.  Personally I would allow killing of other people in the name of self defense so that way police/military/hunter characters wouldn't get screwed over.

What I find offensive is the door system, they are going for the merit bloat again, and they are adding new bloat with condition/tilts.  If you run a cross over game with vampire you got 40 conditions and possibly over 50 merits to remember.

The sad part is we have a supplement called Mirrors with optional rules that reduces bloat.  One such set of rules allows you to have custom merits, but you only get five of them.  Not to mention there is a number of things you can do with them.  They work like FATE aspects, but only they do more things.  If you let something bad happen to you, then you gain a 1xp.  It would had been perfect for GMC and kill off the bloat.

Quote from: bartkusa;18684403This is utterly alien to me.

One of the declared goals for Ex3 was making mortals matter more, and that excited me. I want players attitudes toward mortals to change. Even the literal Best Swordsman in All Creation isn't guaranteed to exalt, because a Solar "shard" might not be available, or he might be disqualified by some defect of soul or personality. But if I'm telling his story, he probably has some unique tricks up his sleeve, and they deserve to be represented mechanically.

Hell, the real world is full of actual mortals, billions through the ages, and some of them still manage to be uniquely talented, doing what no other mortal can do.


As a GM, I felt frustrated in previous editions that I couldn't challenge my players in Exalted unless my NPCs could channel essence. It made me sad that I had to contrive characters into essence-channelers to support my stories.

This really makes no sense to me. The game isn't about the billions of mortals in Creation let alone reality. Its about the Exalted. Unless your PCs are mortals, I suppose then rules like this might be useful but the default assumption is (or was?) that the PCs would be Exalts of some sort.

If you don't need to be Exalt to challenge an Exalt (at least in their field) then what is the damn point and hype about Exalts? I mean, huzzah. You glow and if you glow certain colors you now have a big ass bulls-eye on your back. Biggest of whoops.

My god Nexus how did I miss this?

Look bartkusa here is a solution for you.  Play another game that isn't exalted.  Seriously there is tons of games that feature bad ass mortals.  Exalted is about the exalted.  It is their game and not about ordinary mortals.  If your playing a mortal in exalted your defeating the purpose of playing exalted.  It is that simple.