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Exalted 3 - What the hell?

Started by DisgruntleFairy, February 24, 2014, 01:51:28 AM

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Anglachel

#615
October 29, 2014, 10:52:46 AM
Quote from: Nexus;794803Just as a suggestion: When a potential customers asks you a fairly simple question that could, could be read in a slightly negative fashion getting defensive, passive aggressive and huffy might not be the best reaction.

See, that's the problem if you have 1 dot in Charisma and Appearance and also 0 dots in Presence, Socialize and especially in PR.

.
.
.

:eek:

:D

Nexus

#616
October 29, 2014, 11:43:06 AM
Role playing games are largely about communication so its always baffles me why so many become not only involved in them but professional in the "industry" that are so fucking bad at it.

Sometimes it seems like you take random people off the street and they'd be better at PR than some of the people in the gaming community. Artistic temperament, I guess.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Nexus

#617
January 01, 2015, 11:52:38 AM
Another Exalted thread has sprung up that people following this one might find interesting


http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?745720-A-New-Year-Time-To-Give-Up-On-Exalted
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Warboss Squee

#618
January 01, 2015, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: Nexus;807227Another Exalted thread has sprung up that people following this one might find interesting


http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?745720-A-New-Year-Time-To-Give-Up-On-Exalted

*grabs marshmallows*

So, we have an anti-Exalted thread where the OP says there's some homophobia in the comic and someone else says the OP is reading to much into it?

No better way to start the new year.

Snowman0147

#619
January 01, 2015, 12:40:57 PM
"Exalted is not about shiny heroism."

WTF?!?!?  I am disagreeing with that.  If your playing solar you playing a shiny hero that is going to change the world.  Your going to be riding mechs and destroying empires with your surf board size sword.

JamesV

#620
January 01, 2015, 01:50:02 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147;807235"Exalted is not about shiny heroism."

WTF?!?!?  I am disagreeing with that.  If your playing solar you playing a shiny hero that is going to change the world.  Your going to be riding mechs and destroying empires with your surf board size sword.

Yup. A Solar-centric game is all about changing the world in the most grandiose way possible. However, I don't think I'm talking crazy that the Exalted setting as a whole reaches for the kitchen sink where the tone is concerned. Four-color fantasy supers rubs up against grimdark in plenty of places.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, as it allows different kinds of game.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

Armchair Gamer

#621
January 01, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147;807235"Exalted is not about shiny heroism."

WTF?!?!?  I am disagreeing with that.  If your playing solar you playing a shiny hero that is going to change the world.  Your going to be riding mechs and destroying empires with your surf board size sword.

  OTOH, from what I've seen over the past decade-plus, RPGNet Exalted at least is deeply cynical and deconstructionist. It's more like Watchmen than All-Star Superman, for example.

James Gillen

#622
January 01, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;807248OTOH, from what I've seen over the past decade-plus, RPGNet Exalted at least is deeply cynical and deconstructionist. It's more like Watchmen than All-Star Superman, for example.

Yeah, so like JamesV says, there should be room for both.  But again, it's a bit hard to be grim and gritty when the rules account for attuning a magic sword so that you can still wield it even though it's bigger than you are.

JG
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur

JamesV

#623
January 01, 2015, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: James Gillen;807251... it's a bit hard to be grim and gritty when the rules account for attuning a magic sword so that you can still wield it even though it's bigger than you are.

JG

From my POV, I don't see those as mutually exclusive. Current Warhammer 40k, and the manga/anime Berzerk come to mind as examples where grim and gritty tones mixes with flamboyant visuals.

But you have a good point that's important to keep in mind with Exalted's rules vs. the setting. The rules are aimed at "fantasy supers" (always been the way I can describe them anyway), but the setting is kitchen-sink, with different tones and approaches possible.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

Warboss Squee

#624
January 01, 2015, 04:13:27 PM
A quote from the esteemed Stephen Lea Sheppard on cultural appropriation in gaming.


QuoteDude, I edit Exalted. I'm not sure anyone is more unnerved than I am at the prospect that there may, in fact, be no ethical way for me to pursue my hobby.

As long as you aren't plagiarizing another game, making a game that includes people and cultures that don't line up with your own isn't appropriation, you bloody moron.

But if it really bothers you Stephen, stop working on Exalted, and write what you know. I'm sure there's an untapped market for an rpg where you play a failed child actor. Maybe you could get Macaulay Culkin to consult on it.

Ian Noble

#625
January 01, 2015, 06:24:37 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;807248OTOH, from what I've seen over the past decade-plus, RPGNet Exalted at least is deeply cynical and deconstructionist. It's more like Watchmen than All-Star Superman, for example.

This is very true. Big Purple has drifted Exalted's 'big damn heroes' 1e tone over to a LGBT Game of Thrones. Then 2e kind of cemented that and with 3e, since the patients are now running the asylum, I'm assuming there will be a strong push/continuance to anti-heroes.
My rules and comments about good GMing:
  • Improvise as much as you can
  • A character sheet is a list of items that tell you what the story should be about
  • As a GM, say "maybe" and ask your players to justify a "yes"
  • Immersion isn\'t a dirty word.  
  • Collectively, players are smarter than you and will think of things you never considered.

JamesV

#626
January 01, 2015, 08:48:41 PM
Quote from: Ian Noble;807285This is very true. Big Purple has drifted Exalted's 'big damn heroes' 1e tone over to a LGBT Game of Thrones. Then 2e kind of cemented that and with 3e, since the patients are now running the asylum, I'm assuming there will be a strong push/continuance to anti-heroes.

Is that the case? I definitely could have missed it as I am a straight-up 1e guy. I bought the core rules for 2e, but it wasn't my thing so I didn't follow it much further.

It would be a shame if they didn't keep the setting's tone more open. In the 1e grand campaign, I ran a long time ago, I was able to swing both Big Damn Heroes, and GoT when I needed to, and it didn't stick out setting-wise.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

Anglachel

#627
January 02, 2015, 07:57:53 AM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;807270A quote from the esteemed Stephen Lea Sheppard on cultural appropriation in gaming.


QuoteDude, I edit Exalted. I'm not sure anyone is more unnerved than I am at the prospect that there may, in fact, be no ethical way for me to pursue my hobby.

As long as you aren't plagiarizing another game, making a game that includes people and cultures that don't line up with your own isn't appropriation, you bloody moron.

But if it really bothers you Stephen, stop working on Exalted, and write what you know. I'm sure there's an untapped market for an rpg where you play a failed child actor. Maybe you could get Macaulay Culkin to consult on it.

Yeah, i also stumbled over that whole thread. Oh boy. I mean there are so many whiny bitches in that thread...i mean come one...we are talking about  games of make-belief.
And if someone wants to take offense with your game he/she always can. Always. So stop overthinking everything and just write the game YOU want to write and play.
Sometimes i wish i had their problems...as it seems they have no more serious problems than to think their games are that important and need to make a statement with their design/world/game.
Please!
Get a life.

:rolleyes:

Nexus

#628
January 02, 2015, 05:52:04 PM
Quote from: Stephen Lea Sheppard;18612357The concern being expressed here is that certain elements of human biology lead to semi-inevitable oppression of women on both a micro- and macro-scale unless glossed over or otherwise dealt with -- witness how, in my example above, the solution for getting out of the consequences of an unwanted school pregnancy without chemical abortifacents for a female student is "Induce abortion some other way," which is unpleasant but at least a choice the student makes for herself, while the solution for getting out of the consequences of an unwanted school pregnancy for a male student is... "Induce abortion some other way," still, possibly without the mother's consent. That is some casual violence against women right there. This extends to every other element of the setting, from the practicality of women serving in armies to the practicality of women having full autonomy w/regards to how sexually active they want to be.

Other games handwave it, which is fine, but Exalted can't get away with handwaving that because Exalted doesn't handwave economics or logistics. Instead, Ex1 introduce cheap, reliable, universally available herbal birth control, inspired by the actual silphium, which was (allegedly, depending on who you ask) a reliable herbal abortifacent available to the Romans which they made extinct through overuse.

What I see here is the beginning of the expression of fear that by removing maiden tea as a silphium-equivalent without considering the repercussions, we are adjusting the setting to be much less female-PC-friendly and otherwise much more inevitably filled with sexual violence against women, once you get into the logistics of how pregnancy works. That is, it introduces more conflict into the setting, but the conflict it introduces is not fun to engage with.

However, as I said above, "unreliable" maiden tea is unreliable on the level of conventional birth control, not on the level of a toss-up. The game mechanics for maiden tea, regardless of what variety you buy, are "One dose monthly for contraception, two doses at once during a pregnancy as an abortifacent, three doses at once at any time for sterility, four doses are fatal." The unreliability of the cheaper versions exists on a larger context of statistical measurements and economic supply and demand.

Quote from: Stephen Lea Sheppard;18612508No problem! It's something I've been thinking about since we introduced the idea of varieties of maiden tea with different levels of reliability -- "Did we screw up here?" I don't think we did.


Quote from: ADamiani;18612597To the extent that it actually functions like you describe (comparing it specifically to condoms, which have an 86% failure rate over ten years of typical use), it's a hugely problematic change that transforms Creation from a generally sex-positive place (on net) to a horror-show where dynasts are apparently worried about how they'll procure illegal abortions from providers who are afraid for their lives (per the examples above)-- with a whole chain of knock-on societal effects, for no real gain that I can discern.

.... but I don't expect it will be actually written like that, because I don't think that's what you actually intend. Word of God is a tricky thing!

This last bit seems like an over reaction to me.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Warboss Squee

#629
January 02, 2015, 06:21:27 PM
Actually, I'm glad they put so much thought concerning female reproductive rights into the Exalted setting.  It gladdens the heart to know that my Exalt doesn't have to worry about undesired children...oh wait, my Exalt is male, and he doesn't get the choice.

Although I seem to remember that ODing on maiden tea will sterilize a male as well, so at least you have that option.

With all the cultural stigma that comes with it.
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