I'm very interested in watching the coming tap dancing the developers are going to have to do with their particular fanbase over things like this.

It blows my mind how the "new" Exalted team is using the brand to bring in people but apparently completely expect everyone to act like the previous editions didn't happen. Because of the new design team which contains a good number of people that worked on the earlier editions.

It's like opening a restaurant in the same location producing the same food under the same name and some of the same staff as one closed for health code violations then wondering why customers are leery.

Can you show us some examples please?

Quote from: Snowman0147;792850Can you show us some examples please?

 Well, most recently, one of the development team was too happy about some of the commentary about the art teaser.

Quote from: Richt;18408408To push the point we've been pushing since announcing this, and sorry if us saying this over and over is annoying: different creative team. Different Devs, different art director. Different intentions with the business model. To compare the S&S cover to this throne room illustration, is, well, mind-boggling.

Will we pay heed to the opinions of folks here and on other forums in terms of the art? Yes, when it makes sense and works with our vision for the game. Just like the writing.

Thanks!

Someone else objects

Quote from: Fresh Ninja;18408415You can't expect to use the Exalted brand to get people to fork over money while at the same time expecting people not to remembers its history. THAT is mind-boggling.

And the defensiveness starts.

Quote from: Paradim;18408454Really not seeing how this is productive.

Quote from: MemoryBeast;18408474The fact that Rich T. took the time to read the thread and note the problems people had with the picture matters more to me than what does or does not boggle his mind.  I'm well aware that it's a completely new set of designers, and I wouldn't have contributed to the KS if I didn't trust them to learn from the mistakes of the past, and to respond to feedback from the fans.  They've demonstrated their willingness to do both many times.

And I hardly think its over.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;792523Pic here.  https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/741/933/89fd7141275a2abe7925cba46c4dce1b_large.jpg?1413332383

For the record, I think it's a woman kneeling, Ketchup is in the background, and yes, Red has a fat thigh.

Why is the D&D Tiamat in an Exalted illo?

Quote from: Planet Algol;792860Why is the D&D Tiamat in an Exalted illo?

Its the Imperial Throne. IIRC, it moves and won't anyone but her Redness sit in it including the current Regent, in place since the Empress vanished.

That's cool and all, but I guess it must be an Easter egg with the white, black, blue, green and red dragon heads.

I hadn't heard that but the resemblance is there and they do like Easter eggs

Quote from: Planet Algol;792868That's cool and all, but I guess it must be an Easter egg with the white, black, blue, green and red dragon heads.

It's got an in-setting explanation (the Five Elemental Dragons) but the choice of color is too appropriate to be a coincidence.

Kudos for the artist for the D&D shout-out. Here's looking forward to the day he or she'll learn how the hip joint works.

Quote from: Planet Algol;792868That's cool and all, but I guess it must be an Easter egg with the white, black, blue, green and red dragon heads.

Sorry if I was over explaining (mansplaining?). I didn't know if you were into Exalted at all. And I admit, I do like the Imperial Throne as far as imagery goes.

Quote from: Planet Algol;792868That's cool and all, but I guess it must be an Easter egg with the white, black, blue, green and red dragon heads.

The colours represent the five elements of the Five Element Dragons: Air - Blue, Earth - White, Fire - Red, Water - Black, Wood - Green. I am guessing its more happy coincidence than an easter egg.

This cover art for Scroll of Exalts is more the D&D easter egg you are looking for:

Quote from: Skywalker;792929The colours represent the five elements of the Five Element Dragons: Air - Blue, Earth - White, Fire - Red, Water - Black, Wood - Green. I am guessing its more happy coincidence than an easter egg.

This cover art for Scroll of Exalts is more the D&D easter egg you are looking for:

Ok, that's just cool.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;792631The Egyptians enslaving the Hebrews, the Hebrews enslaving crap tons of others, the Romans enslaving fucking everybody. Yeah, pretty sure race and religion was the basis for most of that crap, so it's hardly a New World (let's be honest and just say white) idea to separate folks along those lines.

Roman slavery had nothing to do with race or religion.  Nor did Egyptian.  The Hebrews were slaved because they were a conquered people, not because they were ethnically different.  

Primary sources bear out that "racial slavery," wherein the different ethnicities and tribal groups are grouped into "races" in order to provide a justification for a race based caste system, is fairly recent, historically speaking.  You don't see that stuff until the Spanish and Portuguese first start it in order to justify transporting African slaves to the New World because the local Indian tribes didn't work to their specifications.

QuoteEDIT: Just to throw a few more in there, the Persians, Babylonians, Greeks, Byzantines, Chinese, Mongols, etc. It usually boils down to, you are us/civilized/speak our language/couldn't fight back. Most of which is racism, except that last one, and even them, an argument can be made.

No, that's not racism at all.  Tribalism and differences in language have nothing to do with modern day conceptions of "race."  The Mongols didn't use a stratification based on modern racial groups, which is why they conquered everybody under the sun.  They had a traditional tribal viewpoint, which is "us versus everybody else," hence things like their trying to stave off cultural corruption when they were running the Yuan dynasty.  

If you're going to build a fantastic antiquity and want to make it so that women can fight just like men, you really just need to guarantee a solid source of protein to the whole populace and then create a justification where female martial virtues are going to prized.  Give it a hundred years or so, and the main limitations to female effectiveness (barring pregnancy) are going to disappear.  We have women in militaries today and we're a hundred year out from worldwide female disenfranchisement and second-class citizenship. We haven't even done any selective breeding for it.  Imagine what would happen if you did choose the muscular, tall wife over the skinny one. It's basically a matter of time, good food, and favoring women built like Gina Torres over Kate Moss.  (Which I do anyway.)

Race is even easier to ignore, because like I said, it's a product of the 15th century and the need for cheap labor because the Church said you couldn't enslave Christians.  Imagine a world like the one Julian the Apostate wrote in, where race isn't an issue, and differences in religion are basically down to marketing except for the zealots (and Zealots), and you've got it.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;792366"Don't believe what the scientists tell you" is basically just a reference to the fact that Exalted, being (at the time) the prehistory of the WoD, does not map to what scientific recorded history would have you believe.  It was meant to be something akin to the Howardian "In the days before Atlantis sank..." It's not meant to be a real admonition that science is bunk or a reflection on Grabowski's personal beliefs.

Except of course that not long before that, you had games like the oWoD Mage and Werewolf that were anti-science, anti-technology, and anti-civilization too.

So I do think that WW has a definite editorial bias in its settings; a product of having been run by a bunch of Arts majors (and would-be "artistes") that felt a serious inferiority complex toward STEM, I'd suspect.

Quote from: James Gillen;792492Hence one of the other ironies of Exalted being "taken over by the Outrage Brigade": One of the recurring premises of Fantasy is that most societies are not run as inclusive parliamentary democracies with any sensitivity to gender or ethnic minorities.  The exceptions would be mainly the kind of literature that inspired the Blue Rose RPG.

JG

No, the literature that inspired Blue Rose generally features Benign Autocracies (often Monarchies) that rule with absolute power to decide what's 'best' for the citizens, run by a group of Special People (sometimes literally, as in Magical People who are Inherently Good, but not always) who are better than other people and therefore have the right to rule.

The Outrage Brigade usually doesn't believe in democracy, because it doesn't believe that most people know what's best for running their own lives, they're too stupid or uneducated or have 'internalized patriarchy' or whatever.  They believe very strongly in the Divine Right of Kings, as long as they get to be the Kings.