Having worked briefly with both of them, Eric Minton and Robert Vance are both top-notch and tireless workers.  Line-development is a project management thing, rather than a game design thing, and Minton, at least, has always struck me as somebody who is very organized and disciplined.  They're also both very familiar with Exalted, so I trust the line has been passed on to really good hands.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;954346Having worked briefly with both of them, Eric Minton and Robert Vance are both top-notch and tireless workers.  Line-development is a project management thing, rather than a game design thing, and Minton, at least, has always struck me as somebody who is very organized and disciplined.  They're also both very familiar with Exalted, so I trust the line has been passed on to really good hands.

Are they going to hire people who have a clue about game design, though?

Quote from: Kiero;954348Are they going to hire people who have a clue about game design, though?

I'm sure they'll try. Minton and Vance both struck me as good at rules.  But Holden and John were both very, very good at game design, too.  If you buy into Exalted 3's rules, they work very well.  On the other hand, a lot of people don't want a system that complex that plays that way.  
 
I feel like Exalted 3 is based on fighting game conceits, whereas 1e was based on tabletop and CCG conceits.  If you're willing to play a game that plays like Street Fighter or something at the table, Exalted 3 is actually pretty solid.  But a lot of people don't want that --  TTRPGs are very bad at replicating stuff that computers do behind the scenes.  Same thing goes with D&D 4e -- 4e, for a good while at least, was a mechanically sound game, and for people who prize mechanical balance and soundness, that comes at a premium.  But a lot of other people were like, "A lot of the stuff that 4e gives me, I can get via an MMORPG pretty painlessly."

Sorry, I drifted there.  I suspect strongly that Minton and Vance will do their best to get people who understand rules design, but I think 3e is the engine they're saddled to, so if that doesn't work for you -- and I don't blame you if it doesn't -- then this change may be largely superficial to you.

My experiences with 3rd didn't feel like Streetfighter or other fighting games, not even close. Fight!: the Fightin game rpg captured that experience far better and with less heft, IMO. 3rd combat felt like much the same tedious slog as earlier edition but with even more to track and odd disassociated mechanical widgets.

Quote from: Nexus;954372My experiences with 3rd didn't feel like Streetfighter or other fighting games, not even close. Fight!: the Fightin game rpg captured that experience far better and with less heft, IMO. 3rd combat felt like much the same tedious slog as earlier edition but with even more to track and odd disassociated mechanical widgets.

Well, we're talking about the difference between the theory behind fighting games popped into an RPG, and an RPG meant to give you a fighting game feel in an RPG.  

To me, I see a lot of Sirlin's Playing to Win in Exalted 3.  You can persuasively argue that a TTRPG is a bad place to put a bunch of variables like essence, initiative, different types of move, a keyword system, and a bunch of different game exceptions in the form of Charms, plus multiple types of magic, multiple types of Exalt, all at once, in combat, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's designed badly.  All those parts could work splendidly together.  It's just a lot of people might think it's too much to deal with at the table and turns the game into a slog.

As an example, for me, D&D 4e ran alright -- it balanced well, all my players had something to do at low-levels in combat, etc.  On the other hand, I needed a combat assistant program to track everybody's conditions, everybody's various statuses, and a map to track how people were moving and being moved by various powers.  At the end of the day, to my mind, a videogame does that kind of technical shit better, and I don't have to be the guy dealing with it.  I think 4e was initially well-designed, but I didn't like to run it.  

I'm not saying you're wrong or anybody's wrong for disliking the game or thinking it's badly designed.  I'm just explaining where I'm coming from that a game can be well-designed, the parts can work together well, but still be something I don't particularly need to run.  It's the difference, to me, of a game being well-designed, and a game being fun.

I don't doubt that you could design a game that went into as much detail as Exalted 3rd does, did it well and was enjoyable to run at the table. I don't think Exalted 3rd succeeds at any of that. I don't mind "crunch". Hell I mostly use Hero and GURPS. But, for my tastes, Ex 3 wasn't crunch done well. More so it was crunch were it wasn't necessarily needed for the game desired. But that's me. Allot of people clearly enjoy it. It does seem to be more functional and stable platform than 2nd and hopefully will remain solid under the weight of additional bells and whistles as the line grows.

Speaking of the line, did anyone get a look at the preview of Arms of the Chosen in the last backer update? How did it look?

Quote from: Nexus;954402Speaking of the line, did anyone get a look at the preview of Arms of the Chosen in the last backer update? How did it look?

Sorry, I've decided to wait for the full book, and haven't even read the update yet.

A tumultuous thread on Deluxe Edition on OP's forum

I'm closing this thread when it hits 300 pages; but people can start a new one after that, if they want.

Well, by my count that leaves all the time in the world. Damn ten year old thread has only hit 75 pages, yo!

I really gotta copy down that Azreal (or whomever) Rant/screed. So perfectly encapsulates why I hate abstract wealth systems, if nothing else. I just know that five years from now I'm really gonna want to reference it and I won't have a damn clue where I read it.

Two more pages on my view but it might still be open before another actual release for the game hits the shelves. The Jumpstart not withstanding.

Apparently Holden and Morke aren't writing for the line at all anymore not just removed as developers. Holden reportedly phrased it as "Our services were no longer required".

And? I mean does anyone (apart from the sycophants on TBP, that is) really think it is that surprising that someone had to "stand up" for the consequences of the big clusterfuck that was Ex3e KS and everything around it? I don't. And honestly, i couldn't care less. I lost all respect for those two anyway. I'm especially glad to see Holden out of Ex .

And when we are on topic of the KS...so apparently the super deluxe book has been sold on the KS as signed and numbered collectible and now that it arrives at the doorsteps of the backers who shelled out 350$ (or something like that) for that thing it turns out...it's not signed and numbered. And some fucks on TBP think that that's ok because it would have been a lot of work and a pain in the ass to sign and number all those books....wow, just wow. If i were a backer of that Orichalcum monstrosity, i would be really really angry. On top of everything else with this KS, now they give their super super deluxe backers the finger like that?! Man!

Maybe that's one of the reasons for the firing of the lead devs...

Quote from: Anglachel;955028And? I mean does anyone (apart from the sycophants on TBP, that is) really think it is that surprising that someone had to "stand up" for the consequences of the big clusterfuck that was Ex3e KS and everything around it? I don't. And honestly, i couldn't care less. I lost all respect for those two anyway. I'm especially glad to see Holden out of Ex .

Just passing on the news. Some were wondering if they'd still be participating in the line at all. Speaking for myself I'm not sorry to see either one of them go as I think they're input did the most as far as turning me off on the game and setting goes. I don't think it will change things much at this point so I'll take the schadenfreude.

Quote from: Anglachel;955028And when we are on topic of the KS...so apparently the super deluxe book has been sold on the KS as signed and numbered collectible and now that it arrives at the doorsteps of the backers who shelled out 350$ (or something like that) for that thing it turns out...it's not signed and numbered. And some fucks on TBP think that that's ok because it would have been a lot of work and a pain in the ass to sign and number all those books....wow, just wow. If i were a backer of that Orichalcum monstrosity, i would be really really angry. On top of everything else with this KS, now they give their super super deluxe backers the finger like that?! Man!

Maybe that's one of the reasons for the firing of the lead devs...

Its like I've said before: the core fanbase of Exalted is like those fans the scramble for front row tickets for concerts of bands known for spitting and pissing into the audience. Its like the fandom expanded too much, blew off its outer layers leaving a small ultra dense  and nearly unbreakable singularity behind.

Quote from: Nexus;955030Its like I've said before: the core fanbase of Exalted is like those fans the scramble for front row tickets for bands known for spitting and pissing into the audience.

The analogy is surprisingly apt, I find:D!