Quote from: AsenRG;905694Charms just change your difficulties numbers.

I'm done.  This statement alone tells me, and likely everyone, that you've not even read that section of the rules.  Because if you did, you'd know that there's waaaay too many caveats with this overly simplistic view of them.

They do change target numbers, but in context of a specific action you wish to do, which may be countered by another rules packet that actively resists that previous action.

But...  No.  I can't.  Done.  I am out.

You win, Asen, you've beaten me senseless with your lack of knowledge of the system you claim is perfectly fine.  I've lost.  I admit defeat.

Quote from: Luca;905356I think you're being a bit excessive. God knows I don't exactly like Exalted (at least since Game of Divinity) or its current developers, but there's a market, however small it might be, for very crunchy games.
And also, the fact people like the crunch doesn't automatically translate as "they want to use every single rule in a huge-ass book".

What is pissing people off isn't crunchy games. Nobody's shitting on GURPS or HERO or such. They're shitting on Ex3 because it was promised/pushed/sold/etc. to be a streamlined rule set built from the ground up. This is completely not the case. Add in the fuck-ton of dickery from OPP and the small group of fans who will swallow any shit-covered treat Rich Thomas pushes in their mouths, and it all becomes too much.

I agree that not every rule needs to be used in a game, however when you have so many uber-crunchy, high-bookkeeping, counterintuitive rules covering core concepts, it's bullshit. Take older cyberpunk games and hacking; many people had to either not play a hacker, ignore the rules or have the trudge of a separate game when hacking occurred. That shouldn't be the case, especially when hacking's so integral to cyberpunk. This is the same in Ex3 but with more sections. So, you either handwave shit, ignore it (and cut out swaths of the setting) or take the pain.

Quote from: AsenRG;905358So..."if you make your own opponents, you're not using the system"?
Do you also object to third-party supplements:p?
That's...stupid beyond belief. NPC stats are a series of target numbers you need to hit or exceed, a series of resistances, and a series of tricks they can pull from their sleeves. That's all. The idea that if I don't use The Officially (R) Approved Numbers (TM)...
Why, it reminds me of TSR and Kevin Simbieda - except you don't have his style:D!

Oh, and for the record, I always have Excel spreadsheats with NPCs:). I don't need the sheets because of the rules info, they just contain the GM-only info. You know the stuff, I would hope (though with you, I'm done assuming that you know anything). Who they know, what they know, what relationships they have to whom, what they own, what they look like, where they are at the moment.
That's orders of fucking magnitude more important than their stupid stats!

And that's, in all likelihood, the last time I address your posts.


Fine. Show me a more optimal system for doing the Exalted setting, and one that I have obviously missed:).

Also, the hurricane around here started with "Ex3 is not serviceable" and other exaggerated claims. I objected to that and pointed that no, it can be used and is fun.
Now that you are back to "there's better ways", my answer is much simpler. No, I'm not claiming Ex3 is necessarily the best Exalted system for every group. That would be stupid. Different groups have different needs.
There are probably systems that would do Exalted better for you, too. I've houseruled other systems to run Exalted already, myself, between the KS being announced and receiving the official book - and it's arguable whether my systems didn't have at least some advantages over the current edition. (Scratch that, at least some of them did have some advantages - but the current edition also has its own advantages, too).
Either way, now I just want to try the third edition. After that? I might use Godbound, or whatever other system strikes my fancy. In all likelihood, it would be Mythras Exalted:D!

You're not going to win this, dude. OPP stepped on their dicks FAR too often with this game and it's suffered for it. The game is so far fucking away from anything even close to what they promised and that's why people are pissed. If they'd said, "Hey! We're making a third edition of Exalted and we're going to use the base ST System and make a very high-crunch game with a TON of new stuff, both crunch and fluff, stuffed in!", people wouldn't be pissed; they knew what to expect. That's not what they did and a few serviceable or cool bits doesn't make it run well. It's like having sweet rims on a total piece of shit breadvan, then expecting to pick up hot chicks. Ain't gonna happen.

The thing is, the Exalted setting isn't so awesome that people are willing to swallow the giant turd of rules again, not when they have Godbound, Gods of the Fall, Part-Time Gods and a bunch of other great stuff they actually like playing.

It doesn't help that the developers are a bit nuts on keeping mechanics and narrative separate, to the point that even things with clear in-universe meaning are explicitly stated to have no in-universe existence. Solar Charms do not exist in-setting. Essence does not exist in-universe. Withering vs. decisive attacks do not exist. Even though all of these do have meaningful in-setting reality. Solar Exalted can feel their Essence, this is directly stated. Sorcerors gather motes, this is clearly stated. Initiative represents, we are explicitly told, the ebb and flow of combat. Anyone with any training at all in any kind of fighting knows that most fighting isn't about hurting the opponent: it's about getting yourself and your opponent into a position where you can actually inflict meaningful damage. That's what "withering" and "decisive" attacks mean, and what initiative represents(except with that weird "initiative charge" business in Steel Devil Style).

Quote from: Luca;905356I think you're being a bit excessive. God knows I don't exactly like Exalted (at least since Game of Divinity) or its current developers, but there's a market, however small it might be, for very crunchy games.
And also, the fact people like the crunch doesn't automatically translate as "they want to use every single rule in a huge-ass book".

It isn't about high crunch, not for me anyway. My go to system is Hero System and I like GURPS quite a bit so I'm not scared of crunch. Its crunch that feels excessive, awkward and unnecessarily byzantine. The new edition isn't streamlined as promised. Its bigger, more bloated and overburdened in a way that, IMO, isn't required or even desirable for what its trying to do; that actively gets in the way, IME. I mean if ever run Exalted in my go to system I will be doing paring it down, turning off allot of the options that add complexity. Hero System is designed to be modular in that way.

Quote from: Whitewings;905817It doesn't help that the developers are a bit nuts on keeping mechanics and narrative separate, to the point that even things with clear in-universe meaning are explicitly stated to have no in-universe existence. Solar Charms do not exist in-setting. Essence does not exist in-universe. Withering vs. decisive attacks do not exist. Even though all of these do have meaningful in-setting reality. Solar Exalted can feel their Essence, this is directly stated. Sorcerors gather motes, this is clearly stated. Initiative represents, we are explicitly told, the ebb and flow of combat. Anyone with any training at all in any kind of fighting knows that most fighting isn't about hurting the opponent: it's about getting yourself and your opponent into a position where you can actually inflict meaningful damage. That's what "withering" and "decisive" attacks mean, and what initiative represents(except with that weird "initiative charge" business in Steel Devil Style).

I don't like how the "narrative" and "mechanical" are separate until they're not much either. Charms aren't in setting things for Solars. Except for Martial Arts, except for those that clearly -have- to be distinct ability (like making objects out of thin air). Withering and Decisive attacks and Initiative aren't in character but there are options and effects that treat them as such scattered though the rules or would at least make allot of more sense of they were. Come to think of its, in Shonen anime combat the equivalent of "Withering" and "Decisive" attacks are discussed in character quite a bit. Hell, I can think of ways making them IC could add depth and flavor to combat. The Crafting rules are major example of te mechanics effecting the narratives for "reasons", too.

Sublime Transference has to be the perfect example. It's a thing-that-is-not (a Solar Charm) which allows the use of another thing-that-is-not (Essence) to change a third thing-that-is-not (Crafting experience points) to make possible a thing-that-is (a crafting project). It doesn't make any sense either in setting or out of it. Actually, most of the Craft rules are like that, especially since a great many Solar Craft Charms are designed to bypass the usual rules and restrictions.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;905800What is pissing people off isn't crunchy games. Nobody's shitting on GURPS or HERO or such. They're shitting on Ex3 because it was promised/pushed/sold/etc. to be a streamlined rule set built from the ground up. This is completely not the case.

The two systems don't have even a single setting between them that has at least one tenth of the following Exalted has. Settings are something people care about more than systems, I've found...
OK, maybe I should say "that Exalted fans care about more than systems". That might be due to the fact that anyone who cared about the system has probably left Exalted behind long ago...

QuoteAdd in the fuck-ton of dickery from OPP and the small group of fans who will swallow any shit-covered treat Rich Thomas pushes in their mouths, and it all becomes too much.

I must admit, if I was paying attention to the online presence of some developers, I'd probably have joined the rabid anti-fans. The infamous Holden BS statement about "knowing what rules the fans want better than them" would have probably sufficed.
It helps that I don't care, I think. If they ever misbehave towards me, I'll chew them just as I chew any of you. In fact, unlike many people, I keep forgetting who was working on Exalted at the moment, and who isn't.
That also helps me in another respect. If a non-developer says something smart, I'd use it. If a developer says something stupid, I'd ignore it. After all, when I run the game, it's my job to make it fun. Every other consideration can go and perform anatomically unnatural acts with itself because it's not my job to care.

QuoteI agree that not every rule needs to be used in a game,

Praised be people with common sense, for theirs is the fun;)!

Quotehowever when you have so many uber-crunchy, high-bookkeeping, counterintuitive rules covering core concepts, it's bullshit.

Well, it helps that I like crunchy games and very light games about equally. I can and do play either.
Some of my favourite systems are Artesia, GURPS, The Riddle of Steel, Traveller and Barbarians of Lemuria.

As for counter-intuitive...I know some people consider some concepts in Ex3 to be counter-intuitive, like the Initiative thing. But to me, they are highly intuitive precisely because it maps well to real-world analogies.
In fact, I explained the Ex3 combat system to my group using examples from sword practice. The ones who practice got it fast.

QuoteTake older cyberpunk games and hacking; many people had to either not play a hacker, ignore the rules or have the trudge of a separate game when hacking occurred. That shouldn't be the case, especially when hacking's so integral to cyberpunk.

You're referring to "the hacker problem"? I've never played in a game where it was an issue. Then again, it probably has something to do with the fact that we're usually willing to split up.

QuoteThis is the same in Ex3 but with more sections. So, you either handwave shit, ignore it (and cut out swaths of the setting) or take the pain.

Not quite. I don't have to cut anything out of Exalted 3, unless I want to. I did it because I'm used to doing it that way.
In fact, I started my short-lived column on TBP with explaining how to create NPCs on the fly so you can bet I've been doing it for a while now:).

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;905801You're not going to win this, dude.

"Win it"? Who says I'm trying to? I would have approached it rather differently if I was. OPP aren't paying me, alas, so I'm not:p.
I'm discussing the game I play. If I grow bored with this discussion, I'm going to stop replying, and let other people use the thread to curse OPP and congratulate themselves on having "pushed me out".

QuoteOPP stepped on their dicks FAR too often with this game and it's suffered for it.

I doubt their dicks are long enough to reach the ground, so I express doubt in your statement;).
I agree with it when taken non-literally, though.

QuoteThe game is so far fucking away from anything even close to what they promised and that's why people are pissed. If they'd said, "Hey! We're making a third edition of Exalted and we're going to use the base ST System and make a very high-crunch game with a TON of new stuff, both crunch and fluff, stuffed in!", people wouldn't be pissed; they knew what to expect.

That's why I'm not pissed. They said that, back in 2012, and I was listening. I can't blame them for them - I did know how heavy it's going to be before pledging.
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?638117-Exalted-Third-Edition
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?639128-Exalted-3rd-edition-What-do-you-absolutely-not-want-to-see

Now, what they should have done is putting those facts on the KS page...but that's on them.

QuoteThe thing is, the Exalted setting isn't so awesome that people are willing to swallow the giant turd of rules again, not when they have Godbound, Gods of the Fall, Part-Time Gods and a bunch of other great stuff they actually like playing.

Opinions on that account obviously vary;). We'll see how strongly by the viability of the line. If people keep buying it, they're probably playing it. The guys that don't play it are the exceptions.
Now, if you ask me what it says about TBP that there are so many of the exceptions there, I'd shrug and say that it probably just says that people that don't play have more time for forums.

Quote from: Whitewings;905817It doesn't help that the developers are a bit nuts on keeping mechanics and narrative separate, to the point that even things with clear in-universe meaning are explicitly stated to have no in-universe existence. Solar Charms do not exist in-setting. Essence does not exist in-universe.

Yes, that's tiring...and I'm disregarding it, because I'm still using the a mix of the settings of all three editions. 3e was outvoted.

QuoteWithering vs. decisive attacks do not exist.

Actually, they do, if you describe them like they do. It's explicitly stated in the book. I've even quoted some of the relevant passages in this thread.
The reason it's stated as not existing is, I suspect, because they didn't want fans that can't understand the concept to wail and whine that "we can't stunt in this edition".

QuoteEven though all of these do have meaningful in-setting reality. Solar Exalted can feel their Essence, this is directly stated. Sorcerors gather motes, this is clearly stated. Initiative represents, we are explicitly told, the ebb and flow of combat. Anyone with any training at all in any kind of fighting knows that most fighting isn't about hurting the opponent: it's about getting yourself and your opponent into a position where you can actually inflict meaningful damage.

Absolutely, especially the bolded part! That's exactly why the players with hand-to-hand or weapons training in my group grasped the concept faster than the rest of them!

QuoteThat's what "withering" and "decisive" attacks mean, and what initiative represents(except with that weird "initiative charge" business in Steel Devil Style).

Totally true - but "initiative charge" is just a method of describing distracting the opponent and tying him to deal with your main weapon, freeing the other hand, I believe. Admittedly, I haven't considered it, though I've got in the background a "three-way war betweeen rival schools" where people trained in the Steel Devil from the book are clashing with a variant Steel Devil using a slender sword and a dagger and a group of military guys advocating the use of the spear and sword. (Admittedly, the third school tries to stay away - the other two groups are bravos trying to prove themselves, while these guys are mostly in the military. They also happen to be the best at it, due to practical experience, and have never lost a duel so far. The experience thing is also why they're trying to stay away, and are debating whether to admit publicly that one of the other two styles was invented first, which they don't believe for a second).
And yes, the mechanics are the same, except for allowed weapons. People have been killing each other over stupider things, as we all know;).

Quote from: Nexus;905829Withering and Decisive attacks and Initiative aren't in character but there are options and effects that treat them as such scattered though the rules or would at least make allot of more sense of they were. Come to think of its, in Shonen anime combat the equivalent of "Withering" and "Decisive" attacks are discussed in character quite a bit. Hell, I can think of ways making them IC could add depth and flavor to combat. The Crafting rules are major example of te mechanics effecting the narratives for "reasons", too.

Man, just two questions.
I know you don't like the system, but if it said that withering and decisive are IC and not OOC, would it improve your opinion?
Also, if you can think of those ways, why don't you make them IC, even if you think* the rulebook disagrees?


*The rulebook actually says that making them IC is totally legit, as I quoted. But the perception among fans is that it says they're OOC. As I stated above, I suspect the ambiguity is there on purpose.

Quote from: Whitewings;905833Sublime Transference has to be the perfect example. It's a thing-that-is-not (a Solar Charm) which allows the use of another thing-that-is-not (Essence) to change a third thing-that-is-not (Crafting experience points) to make possible a thing-that-is (a crafting project). It doesn't make any sense either in setting or out of it. Actually, most of the Craft rules are like that, especially since a great many Solar Craft Charms are designed to bypass the usual rules and restrictions.

You suddenly make me glad that I have no crafters in my party!

Quote from: AsenRG;905844I know you don't like the system, but if it said that withering and decisive are IC and not OOC, would it improve your opinion?
Also, if you can think of those ways, why don't you make them IC, even if you think* the rulebook disagrees?

It would be one small improvement in a pile of garbage and another example of poor design choices that were sent through. If its that obvious to me and others that are house ruling you'd think the alleged geniuses working on it should have thought of it in three years.Even once that aspect is fixed there are other odd issues and problems (like charm effects based on the idea they're different) tied to it that still remain and entire combat system is just clunky slow and worse, dull. So why should I go out of my why to polish OP's turd for them especially if it would be only a tiny step towards making the system palatable.

(IMO, YMMV, etc etc)

And I don't "think" the rule book says they're OOC. The rule book says there is no in setting difference between a Withering ans Decisive attacks. Onlookers or the characters involved can't tell the difference between them, all attacks in combat are considered to actual attempts to hurt the target. The dice pools are calculated in a way that only makes sense if they are actual attempts to hurt the target. I've read the section. This has been confirmed by others that have read the book including the people that wrote the damn rules repeatedly. There are charm effects where treating the difference IC and making choices based on that has been called "Shenanigans".

The concession to the difference being in character is that you can stunt them as "maneuvering" or whatever if you want but even them there should be some concession to it being an attack such as a glancing  hit the bounced off armor or inflicted "minor injury" or a parried/evade strike the sets your target up or grants some advantage but the character and anyone in setting sees it as a legitimate attempt to strike the target and injure them that, successful or not, happened to grant some benefit, planned or not. That is how it will be perceived in setting by all involved parties, trained, untrained, participating or watching.  What you quoted above is a reason that they it makes sense for them to be IC not a statement that they are. That's part of the problem and makes the final choice all the more bizarre. But maybe it'll be address in 3.5 in a few years.

This isn't (curiously universal) "fan perception" but the text supports that (I guess unless you squint and read it sideways or have your special copy). The writers have confirmed it when it asked, fans that loved the system aside from that  has talked about changing it. There is no ambiguity aside from in your head and its applied Rule 0 fallacy to claim that because you can change it there isn't a problem. I know you've got a hard on for the combat system but at least admit there's some flaws.

Quote from: AsenRG;905844The two systems don't have even a single setting between them that has at least one tenth of the following Exalted has. Settings are something people care about more than systems, I've found...
OK, maybe I should say "that Exalted fans care about more than systems". That might be due to the fact that anyone who cared about the system has probably left Exalted behind long ago...


I must admit, if I was paying attention to the online presence of some developers, I'd probably have joined the rabid anti-fans. The infamous Holden BS statement about "knowing what rules the fans want better than them" would have probably sufficed.
It helps that I don't care, I think. If they ever misbehave towards me, I'll chew them just as I chew any of you. In fact, unlike many people, I keep forgetting who was working on Exalted at the moment, and who isn't.
That also helps me in another respect. If a non-developer says something smart, I'd use it. If a developer says something stupid, I'd ignore it. After all, when I run the game, it's my job to make it fun. Every other consideration can go and perform anatomically unnatural acts with itself because it's not my job to care.


Praised be people with common sense, for theirs is the fun;)!


Well, it helps that I like crunchy games and very light games about equally. I can and do play either.
Some of my favourite systems are Artesia, GURPS, The Riddle of Steel, Traveller and Barbarians of Lemuria.

As for counter-intuitive...I know some people consider some concepts in Ex3 to be counter-intuitive, like the Initiative thing. But to me, they are highly intuitive precisely because it maps well to real-world analogies.
In fact, I explained the Ex3 combat system to my group using examples from sword practice. The ones who practice got it fast.


You're referring to "the hacker problem"? I've never played in a game where it was an issue. Then again, it probably has something to do with the fact that we're usually willing to split up.


Not quite. I don't have to cut anything out of Exalted 3, unless I want to. I did it because I'm used to doing it that way.
In fact, I started my short-lived column on TBP with explaining how to create NPCs on the fly so you can bet I've been doing it for a while now:).


"Win it"? Who says I'm trying to? I would have approached it rather differently if I was. OPP aren't paying me, alas, so I'm not:p.
I'm discussing the game I play. If I grow bored with this discussion, I'm going to stop replying, and let other people use the thread to curse OPP and congratulate themselves on having "pushed me out".


I doubt their dicks are long enough to reach the ground, so I express doubt in your statement;).
I agree with it when taken non-literally, though.


That's why I'm not pissed. They said that, back in 2012, and I was listening. I can't blame them for them - I did know how heavy it's going to be before pledging.
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?638117-Exalted-Third-Edition
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?639128-Exalted-3rd-edition-What-do-you-absolutely-not-want-to-see

Now, what they should have done is putting those facts on the KS page...but that's on them.


Opinions on that account obviously vary;). We'll see how strongly by the viability of the line. If people keep buying it, they're probably playing it. The guys that don't play it are the exceptions.
Now, if you ask me what it says about TBP that there are so many of the exceptions there, I'd shrug and say that it probably just says that people that don't play have more time for forums.


Yes, that's tiring...and I'm disregarding it, because I'm still using the a mix of the settings of all three editions. 3e was outvoted.


Actually, they do, if you describe them like they do. It's explicitly stated in the book. I've even quoted some of the relevant passages in this thread.
The reason it's stated as not existing is, I suspect, because they didn't want fans that can't understand the concept to wail and whine that "we can't stunt in this edition".


Absolutely, especially the bolded part! That's exactly why the players with hand-to-hand or weapons training in my group grasped the concept faster than the rest of them!


Totally true - but "initiative charge" is just a method of describing distracting the opponent and tying him to deal with your main weapon, freeing the other hand, I believe. Admittedly, I haven't considered it, though I've got in the background a "three-way war betweeen rival schools" where people trained in the Steel Devil from the book are clashing with a variant Steel Devil using a slender sword and a dagger and a group of military guys advocating the use of the spear and sword. (Admittedly, the third school tries to stay away - the other two groups are bravos trying to prove themselves, while these guys are mostly in the military. They also happen to be the best at it, due to practical experience, and have never lost a duel so far. The experience thing is also why they're trying to stay away, and are debating whether to admit publicly that one of the other two styles was invented first, which they don't believe for a second).
And yes, the mechanics are the same, except for allowed weapons. People have been killing each other over stupider things, as we all know;).


Man, just two questions.
I know you don't like the system, but if it said that withering and decisive are IC and not OOC, would it improve your opinion?
Also, if you can think of those ways, why don't you make them IC, even if you think* the rulebook disagrees?


*The rulebook actually says that making them IC is totally legit, as I quoted. But the perception among fans is that it says they're OOC. As I stated above, I suspect the ambiguity is there on purpose.


You suddenly make me glad that I have no crafters in my party!

You lost me at...pretty much the first word. Again, you're not going to win. Stop trying. It isn't cute in a Rudy way, it's pointless.

Quote from: Nexus;905860It would be one small improvement in a pile of garbage and another example of poor design choices that were sent through. If its that obvious to me and others that are house ruling you'd think the alleged geniuses working on it should have thought of it in three years.

To be fair: I suspect they just don't want issues with, ahem, less creative players:).
Also, I wouldn't call them "geniuses", geniuses shouldn't make so many PR blunders:D.

QuoteEven once that aspect is fixed there are other odd issues and problems (like charm effects based on the idea they're different) tied to it that still remain

Ahem, if you presume they are different, those are no longer a problem, right? I'm trying to get your perspective here - purely because my perspective is close enough, and yet we end up in a different place.

Quoteand entire combat system is just clunky slow and worse, dull. So why should I go out of my why to polish OP's turd for them especially if it would be only a tiny step towards making the system palatable.

(IMO, YMMV, etc etc)

If you find it dull, there's nothing to be done. I was just wondering how much of this is due to the combat system feeling non-intuitive to you;).

QuoteAnd I don't "think" the rule book says they're OOC. The rule book says there is no in setting difference between a Withering ans Decisive attacks.

That's contradicted by "you can explain it as an esoteric kata* setting up your enemy for the kill". So what do I hear when I read them both (and they're almost literally on the same page)?
"Sure, you can just say You Hit Them With Your Axe! Play it like you always did!" (They're definitely not making Gary Gygax's mistake of "assuming their customers can shit unassisted", here - nor are they making the mistake of "upsetting their customer base by radical changes" that WotC made! In a way, that's bad game design, but a good business decision).
"You can also stunt it by describing it as you should! It's esoteric and shit!" (And flatter the guys who actually know what we mean so they don't make a ruckus! Seriously, the book has better PR than their whole KS campaign. I can only assume they used external specialists).

*'Cuz everything in Exalted is an esoteric kata, dontchaknow:D? But "setting the enemy up" is standard operating procedure in most styles I've practiced, and almost all that I've spoken with shared the same. Usually that is abstracted in the skill roll, but it doesn't have to be - and in fact it does make more sense when it isn't abstracted.

QuoteThe dice pools are calculated in a way that only makes sense if they are actual attempts to hurt the target.

Quite the opposite, in my experience. Bigger more damaging weapons set you up for that kill way faster. Now, the fact that they don't get a bonus on the Decisive...sucks, frankly. But I assume they mean it as a game balance mechanism.

QuoteI've read the section. This has been confirmed by others that have read the book including the people that wrote the damn rules repeatedly.

And those people are obviously completely honest and would never support a deliberate attempt to obfuscate, even if it makes the book more likely to be successful among a wider range of fans;)?

QuoteThe concession to the difference being in character is that you can stunt them as "maneuvering" or whatever if you want but even them there should be some concession to it being an attack such as a glancing  hit the bounced off armor or inflicted "minor injury" or a parried/evade strike the sets your target up or grants some advantage but the character and anyone in setting sees it as a legitimate attempt to strike the target and injure them that, successful or not, happened to grant some benefit, planned or not.

Ahem, how do you think normal styles set you up? These are primary ways in the ones I know (except the "bouncing off armour", which is a primary way some GMs and players use to describe non-damaging attacks).

QuoteWhat you quoted above is a reason that they it makes sense for them to be IC not a statement that they are.

My reading is different, obviously.
But I can see why we differ.

QuoteThat's part of the problem and makes the final choice all the more bizarre. But maybe it'll be address in 3.5 in a few years.

If 2.5 was any indicator, probably it wouldn't be.

QuoteThere is no ambiguity aside from in your head and its applied Rule 0 fallacy to claim that because you can change it there isn't a problem.

Again, I pointed out why I think the design choice was made...

QuoteI know you've got a hard on for the combat system but at least admit there's some flaws.

Of course there are! Like the whole of the Crafting system... And I don't like the obfuscations, either.

(Keep in mind: I never said Ex3 is perfect, much as some people would love to interpret my words that way. What I said was that the claims it's unplayable, a stinking pile of manure, or the like, are either way overblown, or stupid. Probably depends on who's making said comment - if it's someone stupid, you don't need to look further...)

But "Has problems"=/=is unplayable", and that's my main point. Well, my other point is to discuss a system I'm playing. But there's preciously few people to discuss it with, so I'm largely skipping that one.

[QUOTE="Alderaan Crumbs;905875]You lost me at...pretty much the first word.[/QUOTE]
At "the", "two" or "systems"? I would call that "not even trying to engage my argument".

QuoteAgain, you're not going to win. Stop trying. It isn't cute in a Rudy way, it's pointless.

You didn't get to the part of my post where I answered that, did you?

Tl;dr: I don't fucking care whether I "win", 'cuz OPP ain't paying me (alas...hey, OPP, I'm open to bribery;)!)

Clear?

The constant emoti nonsense makes you come across as an asshole thirteen year old.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;905932The constant emoti nonsense makes you come across as an asshole thirteen year old.

I work with texts for a living. This is a frigging forum where I have rest from work, so it stays.

Alternately, pick one.

• Always glad when I look younger than I am:D.
• It's not like I care:p.
• I like it when people who can't look behind the surface skip my posts, it improves the signal-to-noise ratio;).
• I like stupid emotes the way I like stupid games, like, oh, pretending to be an elf:cool:!
• You can go where the Pundit would send you, except the expletive "cunt", which I dislike, is replaced with more expletives from more languages:rolleyes:.

If you want to randomize it, feel free to use a d5 on it, 'cuz you have d5s, right?

Quote from: AsenRG;905937I work with texts for a living. This is a frigging forum where I have rest from work, so it stays.

Alternately, pick one.

• Always glad when I look younger than I am:D.
• It's not like I care:p.
• I like it when people who can't look behind the surface skip my posts, it improves the signal-to-noise ratio;).
• I like stupid emotes the way I like stupid games, like, oh, pretending to be an elf:cool:!
• You can go where the Pundit would send you, except the expletive "cunt", which I dislike, is replaced with more expletives from more languages:rolleyes:.

If you want to randomize it, feel free to use a d5 on it, 'cuz you have d5s, right?

Don't be hostile. This is a safe space. Use your words.

Seriously, though, it's all in fun, at least for me. It's pretty silly for anyone to take the opinions of others to seriously, but silly is fun! Exalted? Not so fun...

At least your sig is cool.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;905947Don't be hostile.

On theRPGsite:D?

QuoteThis is a safe space.

...you sure:)?

QuoteUse your words.

I'm speechless now!

QuoteSeriously, though, it's all in fun, at least for me. It's pretty silly for anyone to take the opinions of others to seriously, but silly is fun!

Yeah, that's what I was trying to explain...not much success;).

QuoteExalted? Not so fun...

I disagree. Exalted has provided me with more popcorn that any other game...

QuoteAt least your sig is cool.

Is that what they call it these days:p?

Oh, you mean the signature....never mind;)!