Quote from: Christopher Brady;901671Sorry, I meant, to curtail some rebuttal (from AsenRG) about how most of them don't actually matter because that they're rerolls or some such.  All that matters is that they have about 650 more than the 1e core book (A bit hyperbolic, but there are at least 5x more.)

Closer to 3x. I just counted, the 1e book has 220 charms. Reudce that a bit if you don't count Snake Style, 'cuz back in 1e Snake Style was the entirety of the "Martial Arts" section for Solars.

And really? As excessive as I think 3e's charm section is? 1e's is nearly anemic.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;901671Sorry, I meant, to curtail some rebuttal (from AsenRG) about how most of them don't actually matter because that they're rerolls or some such.  All that matters is that they have about 650 more than the 1e core book (A bit hyperbolic, but there are at least 5x more.)

1e was about at my limit of Exception powers I wanted to juggle.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;901665No offense, Nexus, I don't actually care what they do, what I care is the sheer amount of them.  And as GM, as long as I don't want to handwave the entire system away, I have to know ALL of them???  And how they interact with each other?

I stand by my statement:  Exalted actively hates the GM.

Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

Quote from: Nexus;9017601e was about at my limit of Exception powers I wanted to juggle.

If I had to juggle the same exception-based powers as a GM, even 1e would be too much. Exalted just has too many different trees that don't follow a common model, unlike other games.

Quote from: James Gillen;901808Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

Surely you meant to say "FASERIP" or "ORE"?

Quote from: James Gillen;901808Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

GURPS too, for that matter.

Quote from: James Gillen;901808Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

And of course, Godbound.

Quote from: James Gillen;901808Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

I suspect you're being a little tongue in cheek but its a viable option. You get the cinematic flavor, reasonable levels of crunch and a combat system that allows for tactical combat with options with a, IMO, better system that allows for highly customized characters with superhuman abilities.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;901832GURPS too, for that matter.

There's at least one Exalted: The Dragonblooded game I know of run using GURPS.

Quote from: The Butcher;901835And of course, Godbound.

Its practically made for it.

Quote from: James Gillen;901808Fantasy HERO: For those who liked Exalted, but want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

As someone who has used M&M 3e for it, and has played 4th and 5th a bit, yes.  Pretty much.  Broke out the 1e corebook and did it that way.

Quote from: AsenRG;901818Surely you meant to say "FASERIP" or "ORE"?

Nope.  After reading a friends PDF copy of this, HERO is actually LIGHTER than E3 is.

Quote from: Nexus;901881I suspect you're being a little tongue in cheek but its a viable option. You get the cinematic flavor, reasonable levels of crunch and a combat system that allows for tactical combat with options with a, IMO, better system that allows for highly customized characters with superhuman abilities.

And to you can make it mechanically 'better' represented super-fantasy heroes with too!

Quote from: Nexus;901881Its practically made for it.

I'll check out Godbound when it's done.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;901904As someone who has used M&M 3e for it, and has played 4th and 5th a bit, yes.  Pretty much.  Broke out the 1e corebook and did it that way.

There's also the Warriors & Warlocks book for the M&M 2 rules system if you haven't checked that out yet.

QuoteNope.  After reading a friends PDF copy of this, HERO is actually LIGHTER than E3 is.

My point exactly.

JG

[Insert mandatory Hero fan rant about the over stated complexity of Hero System here]

Quote from: James Gillen;901926There's also the Warriors & Warlocks book for the M&M 2 rules system if you haven't checked that out yet.

Own it.  And recently bought another copy of it when the old one got literally chewed up.

Quote from: James Gillen;901926My point exactly.

JG

I just find it sad.  I'm one of those weird gamer types who prefers his system focused for the setting it wants to present.  The generic aspect of GURPS for examples, turns me off because there's no implied setting in the core book.  Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on GURPs, just sayin' it's not my bag of tea.

Quote from: Nexus;901934[Insert mandatory Hero fan rant about the over stated complexity of Hero System here]

To be fair to those people who claim it is complex, IT IS when you first design a character.  There's so many ways to build things, so many stats, and when you throw in something like fractions into the process, things can get a little wacky.

But the complexity ENDS the moment you're done, unless you're adding more things, but that's more of a sporadic, experience expenditure.  So HERO front-loads its complexity, and then let's you smooth sail off when in play.

Thing is, that front end can be a bit daunting to be completely honest.

Quote from: AsenRG;901702Thank you, master of the obvious! I'm sure somebody might have been thinking they had equal amounts of crunch, despite the Ex1 corebook having about half the pagecount of the Ex3. Good you were here to disprove that erroneous opinion:D!

In other words, they couldn't have put as many even if they were actively trying! Exalted 1 is 351 pages. The charms and sorcery in Exalted 3 are over 250 pages, and if we include the description of the core system and sub-systems, it's 364 pages.
Of course there would be more system material in it, when the system parts of one corebook are longer than the entirety of the other corebook!


You obviously can't predict what I'd say, CB. Better not to try:).
Also, the charms don't matter to the GM, unless the GM wants them to matter:p. Unless you're trying to go insane, the NPCs should be able to do whatever you want them to do; that was true in 2e, and it's just as true in 3e, IME.


Is that a way to say, Exalted has only been more and more disappointing for you with every book they published;)?

Having your NPCs do what you want isn't using the system, it's handwaving it for convenience/story. Why would an Exalted GM do that? Because the base system and the Charms are fucking stupidly complicated.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;901904Nope.  After reading a friends PDF copy of this, HERO is actually LIGHTER than E3 is.


I'll check out Godbound when it's done.

Right, and both ORE and Faserip are lighter than Hero, while preserving similar flexibility:).

Godbound seems to be done, or I don't know what's that file I've been reading for a while;).

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;902010Having your NPCs do what you want isn't using the system, it's handwaving it for convenience/story. Why would an Exalted GM do that? Because the base system and the Charms are fucking stupidly complicated.

No, that's just houseruling/improving the rules on "Quick Characters", which are explicitly part of the third edition:p!

I got version 1.8 godbound.  Kevin seems to release a update from time to time.

Quote from: AsenRG;902116Right, and both ORE and Faserip are lighter than Hero, while preserving similar flexibility:).

Godbound seems to be done, or I don't know what's that file I've been reading for a while;).


No, that's just houseruling/improving the rules on "Quick Characters", which are explicitly part of the third edition:p!

Houseruling and improving? You shouldn't NEED to do either. Exalted, however, all but forces you to, if you want to maintain a shred of sanity. It's a shit system made by shit people that caters to (largely) shit fans. It's not quick, it's needlessly clunky and defense of it smacks of a desperation to maintain the illusion of it being what people were promised.