I assume you have already discounted it, but you could try using Godbound to run an Exalted game. Everyone keen on Exalted 3e around here was so for a version of Exalted without the past issues, which Ex3 has proven to fail to achieve. GB may scratch both his itch and yours, without the weight that seems to be an issue for you with WW's editions of Exalted.

Quote from: Skywalker;894152I assume you have already discounted it, but you could try using Godbound to run an Exalted game. Everyone keen on Exalted 3e around here was so for a version of Exalted without the past issues, which Ex3 has proven to fail to achieve. GB may scratch both his itch and yours, without the weight that seems to be an issue for you with WW's editions of Exalted.

The bulk is something of an issue but I don't object to crunch. But it feels more like what Christopher Brady referred to as "bloat". And the game is driven by and based on assumptions about the setting and how it should function that I don't share. Like the combat system and the movement system. Baseline load bearing systems that can't really be ripped out or renovated very easily.

Godbound has allot going for it, quite allot. But the player really wants to try the Ex3 system specifically not just play in the Exalted setting (or more precisely our version of it). So using GB wouldn't satisfy him.

Speaking for myself, while GB has some excellent parts in it, I'm not too much of a fan of D and D style rules and it lacks some thing I'd want. Plus using it means allot of conversion work, as would using any other system really but if I'm going to do that I may as well use a game system I'm familiar with and like more.

Quote from: Nexus;894196Godbound has allot going for it, quite allot. But the player really wants to try the Ex3 system specifically not just play in the Exalted setting (or more precisely our version of it). So using GB wouldn't satisfy him.

Cool. There's not much can be done, if the player's desire is specific, other than bite the bullet. Ex3 is mechanically exacting so there is no doing things by halves.

Hopefully, it proves more to be a general desire to play an unbloated Exalted as has been my experience, given how Ex3 actually plays. Then again, if you find Godbound, with all the heavy lifting conversion done, too much effort to convert, then I doubt you will find an alternative system to turn to TBH.

Quote from: Skywalker;894202Cool. There's not much can be done, if the player's desire is specific, other than bite the bullet. Ex3 is mechanically exacting so there is no doing things by halves.

Hopefully, it proves more to be a general desire to play an unbloated Exalted as has been my experience, given how Ex3 actually plays. Then again, if you find Godbound, with all the heavy lifting conversion done, too much effort to convert, then I doubt you will find an alternative system to turn to TBH.

I'm planning using Hero System. I've looked at some of the
conversion and I'd have to learn an entirely new system just to understand them, convert our characters along with adjust for our variant on Creation including allot of custom homebrew material.

I'm much more adept with Hero System so it would be easier for me.

Quote from: Nexus;894205I'm much more adept with Hero System so it would be easier for me.

Given that the idea of using Hero for Exalted is a mountain of effort to me, I am guessing we are talking over an unbridgable gulf here. Sounds like only a conversion at your own hand will match your vision of Creation though. So good luck with Ex3 and/or your Hero conversion.

I've run into similar situations with my group and I have to say that, if you've got players who don't like Ex3, then I wouldn't run it if I were in your shoes. I've passed on games that I really wanted to do something with before (or had one or two players really into) for that very reason. Star Wars, The One Ring, and Mutants and Masterminds have all been stopped early or skipped entirely because there were people strongly against playing them. It very rarely ends well if part of the group actively dislikes the game you're playing, and it's even worse if the GM falls in that category, too. The point is for everyone to have fun, and there are enough games out there that you should be able to find something that pleases the whole group.

Quote from: Skywalker;894207Given that the idea of using Hero for Exalted is a mountain of effort to me, I am guessing we are talking over an unbridgable gulf here. Sounds like only a conversion at your own hand will match your vision of Creation though. So good luck with Ex3 and/or your Hero conversion.

Yeah, different system click with different people. For me its pretty easy but I see Exalted as a Fantasy/Anime supers game in a world similar to Post Apocalyptic Eternia. The main thing that I found was best to ditch the concept of Charms (ironically something 3rd did for Solars. Sort of). Then an effects based system works pretty well.

Quote from: Nexus;893818Her culture attaches little if any weight to physical sex when determining gender; its totally social. So she doesn't feel she needs a physical change. She IS a man and is happy with her current physical set up. Ar least that's how I understood the explanation at the time. That was a while ago so it may change by the time we learn more details about the character.

Perhaps I'm digging into the Weeds of Ignorance here, but what does it mean to "be a man" in Deneth? What makes Diamond a "man"? Is it being a soldier? Well, then you're a soldier, regardless of your sex. If being a soldier means you're societelly a man, it's a stupid way to break gender lines. Do the women who go into combat roles suddenly become men? Do men who take care of the home become women? No, they're still men and women. They just swapped the terminology for male/female division, but still have division. It's dumb to me.

Denethian society's less about breaking typical gender roles to say, "Hey, we're all equal, sex-wise" and more about hammering LGBTQ+ theory/agenda into a made-up culture and person. Which isn't surprising.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;894240Perhaps I'm digging into the Weeds of Ignorance here, but what does it mean to "be a man" in Deneth? What makes Diamond a "man"? Is it being a soldier? Well, then you're a soldier, regardless of your sex. If being a soldier means you're societelly a man, it's a stupid way to break gender lines. Do the women who go into combat roles suddenly become men? Do men who take care of the home become women? No, they're still men and women. They just swapped the terminology for male/female division, but still have division. It's dumb to me.

Denethian society's less about breaking typical gender roles to say, "Hey, we're all equal, sex-wise" and more about hammering LGBTQ+ theory/agenda into a made-up culture and person. Which isn't surprising.

This is going form memory so bear with me. I can't remember what the base culture is called but dereth is a class within the society, a southern group around and in  the southern city of Chiaroscuro,  But the society over all is highly sexually segregated. Woman don't take up arms, don't perform certain duties, are expected to care for the home and children, etc. Woman have a certain dress code as well and our largely expected to be judged by their appearance and to aspire to be good and desirable wives. Men are the warriors and providers, live by strict and violent honor code and are judged by their deeds, honor and valor.

Men don't take care of the household or act as passive members in a relationship and women don't enter the armed forces or carry a weapon. Unless they chose to become Dereth and take on the opposing gender and its roles. Dereth males wear  the sheer gowns, dressed and veils of women, perform the functions of women and can even marry and become wives to men or Dereth men (who dress and act as men including romancing and courting women either born or Dereth). The gender roles are very strict and becoming Dereth or leaving the society entirely are the only ways to escape them. So Dereth aren't necessarily homosexual or what we'd call Transgendered but can individuals that aren't happy with their sex assigned gender role.

So Diamond is a man in her culture because she dresses and acts liker one, carrying weapons, being aggressive and martial, apparently pursuing women lovers (physical women not dereth women). She could be a lesbian that wanted to take on the role of man in her society as well as transgendered. And that could make a bit more sense given the rest of her apparent description.

Whoo, that was long winded. Sorry!

I appreciate your clarification, thank you. That culture makes even less sense to me now, but whatever. It's a magical land with drug-pissing dinosaurs and can be what it wants. The whole subject of Diamond and Deneth and whatever trans agenda there is or isn't, is murky and I dislike the social justice buffonery that clouds so much in gaming now.

Anway...I loved Exalted back in the day, but the more I read about Ex3, the less I feel I'll enjoy it. Waaaaaay to crunchy and unwieldy, especially for a GM. The social aspects of OPP have also soured me. I have a difficult time supporting such complete shitlords.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;894247The whole subject of Diamond and Deneth and whatever trans agenda there is or isn't, is murky, to be honest. I loved Exalted back in the day, but the more I read about Ex3, the less I feel I'll enjoy it. Waaaaaay to crunchy and unwieldy, especially for a GM. The social aspect of OPP have also soured me. I have a difficult time supporting such complete shitlords.

You got that right. The entire damn game is murky and between the fans and the writers as amorphous as a fucking Lunar on LSD. It changes constantly based on whatever the current vocal fans think and current Dev team thinks is popular or whatever the rules turn out not to be able to handle.

ST system falls about at high power levels? Oh, it was never about that.

No rules for controlling and ruling large areas? Oh, it never was about Empire building...

Anime not as big anymore? Oh this ain't no stinkin' anime game.

Etc etc.

Its been struggling for identiry and to serve too many master practically since the beginning. Even though I basically despise the current direction I hope it actually sticks to it and stabilizes. But I'm not holding my breath.

Quote from: Nexus;894241This is going form memory so bear with me. I can't remember what the base culture is called but dereth is a class within the society, a southern group around and in  the southern city of Chiaroscuro,  But the society over all is highly sexually segregated. Woman don't take up arms, don't perform certain duties, are expected to care for the home and children, etc. Woman have a certain dress code as well and our largely expected to be judged by their appearance and to aspire to be good and desirable wives. Men are the warriors and providers, live by strict and violent honor code and are judged by their deeds, honor and valor.

Men don't take care of the household or act as passive members in a relationship and women don't enter the armed forces or carry a weapon. Unless they chose to become Dereth and take on the opposing gender and its roles. Dereth males wear  the sheer gowns, dressed and veils of women, perform the functions of women and can even marry and become wives to men or Dereth men (who dress and act as men including romancing and courting women either born or Dereth). The gender roles are very strict and becoming Dereth or leaving the society entirely are the only ways to escape them. So Dereth aren't necessarily homosexual or what we'd call Transgendered but can individuals that aren't happy with their sex assigned gender role.

So Diamond is a man in her culture because she dresses and acts liker one, carrying weapons, being aggressive and martial, apparently pursuing women lovers (physical women not dereth women). She could be a lesbian that wanted to take on the role of man in her society as well as transgendered. And that could make a bit more sense given the rest of her apparent description.

Whoo, that was long winded. Sorry!

Well, it's actually a good summary of the Delzhan society in Ex1 and Ex2. In fact, it's quite concise, unless you mean it's long winded for a forum post. In which case, you're probably right, but there are different kinds of forum posts:).

Actually, I remember in one of my games there were 3 Delzhani who were unhappy with their gender-imposed role. Two of them had taken the Dereth role, and married (one of them would have been, in modern terms, actually a heterosexual man who simply hated violence so much, he'd decided that costum change and make-up are preferable - but he was, in all likelihood, the most faithful wife in Chiaroscuro, which was a minor plot point).

The third one had a legalistic mind, and liked most elements of her society-expected role. She thus decided that the problem was in her being Delzhan - since foreigners are allowed to flaunt those rules (as long as they're not being obnoxious about it).
A PC managed to solve two issues with one move by making an aging Patrician adopt her. He needed a scion;). With that, her family proclaimed her dead, but she didn't exactly care. And, with a new identity and all her old skills and knowledge about Chiaroscuro, she was an almost invaluable addition to the House's business in Chiaroscuro! She also got to wear a weapon, had a multitude of lovers, and paid off her debt to the PC by being an intermediary when asked.

So, this is actually a part of the setting I approve. You can get quite a bit of mileage out of it.
The specific example of Prince Diamond is, however, an NPC I don't really like. The writers have a few more books to try and sway me in the other direction, of course. Then I'll cast him in a role they wouldn't like, and count on the PCs to remove another Solar from the setting:p!

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;894247I appreciate your clarification, thank you. That culture makes even less sense to me now, but whatever.

There are actually parallels to existing cultures, so I'm not sure what is there to understand. If you think people in Chiaroscuro think differently, yes they do. It would be kinda weird if they didn't, since after all, they are living in a magical land with shapeshifters, ancestor spirits, and people that are walking flamethrowers:D!
But the difference, to them, is that they consider social role an inseparable part of gender. The opposite is also true: you are what you do.
That's all, as far as the Dereth are concerned;).

I totally dig the feel of games which have demigodlings doing demigodling things, which is why, despite not being a previous user of OSR stuff, I'm looking at Godbound. Kevin's also a very talented and nice person, from what I've seen, which matters to me. As a fan of the Cypher System I'm eagerly awaiting the God's of the Fall book. That may scratch my itch, even if it doesn't have the mechanic oomph some crave.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;894252I totally dig the feel of games which have demigodlings doing demigodling things, which is why, despite not being a previous user of OSR stuff, I'm looking at Godbound. Kevin's also a very talented and nice person, from what I've seen, which matters to me. As a fan of the Cypher System I'm eagerly awaiting the God's of the Fall book. That may scratch my itch, even if it doesn't have the mechanic oomph some crave.

If I was into OSR stuff I'd be on Godbound like white on rice.

Quote from: Nexus;894255If I was into OSR stuff I'd be on Godbound like white on rice.

From what little I know of OSR and the bits I've read of Godbound, it seems like it does "Exaltedy" stuff very well.