Quote from: Brand55;883713He's one of the more caustic characters on the Internet roleplaying scene. He did some work years ago with Shadowrun, and he's spent years bitching about how the next Shadowrun editions were absolute garbage (though I haven't heard his stance on the current game) and trading barbs with the people at Catalyst. He was one of the nastier people at rpg.net for years until even they had to ban him a year or so ago when he broke the rules arguing about Werewolf: the Apocalypse and bestiality.

I'm afraid I don't know much more than that. He's one of those people I don't care to know better, honestly, so I'm really glad he doesn't like this site.

I think I vaguely remember that Werewolf stuff. Seems like an unpleasant guy.

Quote from: AsenRG;883580The question is, especially given that it looks like a site for D&D3+ fanatics, why does anyone on this site care about their opinion:D?

Quote from: Snowman0147;883581Who are they and why should we ca...  Fuck it I am not dignifying them with that question.

Because I am a bad person who finds it funny that someone is unable to grasp TSR D&D?

They are... rather set in their game-balance-über-alles, mever-trust-the-GM, the-rules-are-the-game ways, to put it kindly. But it's an interesting perspective, anthropologically speaking, even if I think I'd never game with someone who'd articulate their views IRL the way people do at TGD.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;883622After skimming some threads over there, I feel I owe this site an apology for my complaints about hostility and One True Way-ism. TheRPGSite isn't perfect, but it's polite and broad-minded to a fault, compared to what I saw over at the Gaming Den.

Like here, there's a very vocal hardcore group, and a less vocal and less extreme majority, but it's the loud, vitriolic types who leave lasting impressions.

Quote from: Warthur;883693The Gaming Den is the group that says "Frank Trollman Matters". Systems which have Frank's approval are boosted there, systems that he dislikes get run down, and most of the regulars seem to be people who genuinely seem to be interested in and like what Trollman is saying.

Trolldude is definitely influential there (more so, I dare say, than Pundit here) but there seems to be an underlying set of principles beyond "Trollman says so": (1) the rules are the game and the game is the rules, (2) the GM is not to be trusted with rulings and (3) game balance is of utmost importance.

Quote from: Nexus;883695Who's Frank Trollman?

A knuckle dragging shit flinger.

Quote from: Snowman0147;882305Got the last two done.

Dragon Bloods
Abyssals

Going to research the alchemicals, infernos, dragons, and mortal options.

If I may, I'd suggest giving Dragonbloods abilities from the Cinnabar Order and Empty Way schools of low magic.  The spells from both schools seem like a pretty good way to emulate their charms and natural abilities.

Quote from: Marvelous_Metal_Man;883750If I may, I'd suggest giving Dragonbloods abilities from the Cinnabar Order and Empty Way schools of low magic.  The spells from both schools seem like a pretty good way to emulate their charms and natural abilities.

I think how it is done a heroic mortal can get them by donating a fact to each sorcery.  This is by rules of the mortals that Sine Nomine talks about.

Quote from: The Butcher;883577Girls, girls! You're both crapsack princesses!

Besides, while all the Godbound love over at RPGnet and WW/OP warms the cockles of our grog hearts, nothing shall deliver as much mirth as the sperglording of the Gaming Den sperglords.

I marveled in particular at their inability to grasp Exalted, even more so than the predictable "OMG trusting GM judgement = MTP" potshots at OSR.

Jesus Christ....talk about "The Salt must Flow!"

The amount of seething jealousy Trollman is projecting over this is hilarious. He considers himself to be a master of game design, yet he's never come to close to anything Kevin here has done. You can just feel the Butthurt coming from him.

Quote from: Orphan81;883758Jesus Christ....talk about "The Salt must Flow!"

The amount of seething jealousy Trollman is projecting over this is hilarious. He considers himself to be a master of game design, yet he's never come to close to anything Kevin here has done. You can just feel the Butthurt coming from him.

Against my better judgement, I took a look.

And Trollman is one angry dude.

Quote from: The Butcher;883727Trolldude is definitely influential there (more so, I dare say, than Pundit here) but there seems to be an underlying set of principles beyond "Trollman says so": (1) the rules are the game and the game is the rules, (2) the GM is not to be trusted with rulings and (3) game balance is of utmost importance.

True enough, though those three principles are key to Trollman's thinking. He's been grinding those particular axes for a long time.

1. Wait, his surname is actually "Trollman"? Unfortunate, if so.

2. Such anger, I see. Well on the way to the Dark Side, he is.

3. I love a good argument as much as the next guy, but, dude, do you not have a job, a family, or something? Such effort and vitriol towards ... a game ... is surprising, to say the least.

Quote from: Orphan81;883758Jesus Christ....talk about "The Salt must Flow!"

The amount of seething jealousy Trollman is projecting over this is hilarious. He considers himself to be a master of game design, yet he's never come to close to anything Kevin here has done. You can just feel the Butthurt coming from him.

What I found most amusing was how they were indignantly bashing the game without knowing how it actually works. Apparently they didn't bother reading enough to figure out that Godbound don't need to make as many rolls for the more "everyday" tasks their precious skill lists would be required for. Divine Blade Empress doesn't need a Balance skill to cross a narrow log. She doesn't even roll at all unless she's doing it in the middle of a storm while an army of archers snipe at her and a demonic beasty lies waiting at the bottom of the ravine she's crossing.

Quote from: Brand55;883806What I found most amusing was how they were indignantly bashing the game without knowing how it actually works. Apparently they didn't bother reading enough to figure out that Godbound don't need to make as many rolls for the more "everyday" tasks their precious skill lists would be required for. Divine Blade Empress doesn't need a Balance skill to cross a narrow log. She doesn't even roll at all unless she's doing it in the middle of a storm while an army of archers snipe at her and a demonic beasty lies waiting at the bottom of the ravine she's crossing.

Yeah but to be fair, Trollman read enough to figure out that the game uses fucking THAC0 - one of the worst pieces of RPG design ever - IMO - outside of anal circumference from FATAL.

Or - lets get this straight you're a godbound you start with HP= 8 + con modifier, but heavy weapons do 1d10+str or dex.

I'm two pages in and mechanically I'm already deeply skeptical of how "heroic" and "epic" in scope this game is. Maybe the fluff of the game is, but I fail to see how something obviously mechanically borked by page 13 is going to get better.

Oh look - page 16 - these worthless and low stats only matter when demigods fight an appropriate demigod level threat. Great - so when I combat happens "that matters", I can still be dead in two rounds - fantastic!

Page 18 - attribute checks: 21 - the attribute score. If I've learned anything over the years - subtraction should be used as little as possible.

No - this is just some useless retroclone heartbreaker.

Anyone who's QQing that the guys at tgdmb aren't groveling over how amazing this game is has their up their ass at the awful game design used here. And yes, I'll conceed that the setting may indeed be awesome. I don't care.

As well - since I actually post at tgdmb under another name, there's a broad consensus on the boards that most games have some good parts and other parts that are total shit and you just have to play the game inspite of them.

See this thread: "Are any RPGs actually good?"

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56373&highlight=

Quote from: The Butcher;883727Because I am a bad person who finds it funny that someone is unable to grasp TSR D&D?

To be fair: lots of people that started playing with me find TSR D&D mechanics non-intuitive. They grasp it, it's just not how they're used to thinking.
They find many old-school assumptions totally intuitive, though;).

QuoteThey are... rather set in their game-balance-über-alles, mever-trust-the-GM, the-rules-are-the-game ways, to put it kindly.


Trolldude is definitely influential there (more so, I dare say, than Pundit here) but there seems to be an underlying set of principles beyond "Trollman says so": (1) the rules are the game and the game is the rules, (2) the GM is not to be trusted with rulings and (3) game balance is of utmost importance.

Such people should understand rules better than some of the guys I read discussing Godbound in your link:).

Quote from: Iron_Rain;883822Yeah but to be fair, Trollman read enough to figure out that the game uses fucking THAC0 - one of the worst pieces of RPG design ever - IMO - outside of anal circumference from FATAL.

But it still wasn't enough to actually get how the game plays. "I saw this mechanic I dislike and didn't realise it's used differently and doesn't have a central place" is damning with faint praise, IMO:D!

QuoteOr - lets get this straight you're a godbound you start with HP= 8 + con modifier, but heavy weapons do 1d10+str or dex.

Let me get this straight for you, because you didn't manage it: Godbound don't suffer damage the same way your mortals do. This heavy weapon can't wipe out a Godbound in one successful hit.

QuoteI'm two pages in and mechanically I'm already deeply skeptical of how "heroic" and "epic" in scope this game is. Maybe the fluff of the game is, but I fail to see how something obviously mechanically borked by page 13 is going to get better.


Oh look - page 16 - these worthless and low stats only matter when demigods fight an appropriate demigod level threat. Great - so when I combat happens "that matters", I can still be dead in two rounds - fantastic!

Page 18 - attribute checks: 21 - the attribute score. If I've learned anything over the years - subtraction should be used as little as possible.

"I read 18 pages in a 174 pages game and pronounced my opinion" amounts to Did Not Do The Research. Thanks for admitting it.

QuoteNo - this is just some useless retroclone heartbreaker.

I'm trying to avoid applying "useless" to your reading habits. You're not making it easy.
By my estimate, starting Godbound PCs are more powerful than starting Exalted PCs. How many heartbreaker retroclones do you know that do that?

QuoteAnyone who's QQing that the guys at tgdmb aren't groveling over how amazing this game is has their up their ass at the awful game design used here.

I would reply to this sentence, but due to what I suspect is editing mistakes, it means pretty much nothing.
Did you miss the word "head"? That I can decipher. But you also either left something from an earlier variant of the phrase, or missed something else again before "at".
At this point, I refuse to guesstimate what you mean. It'll probably make me laugh, though, based on the rest of your post:D!

QuoteAnd yes, I'll conceed that the setting may indeed be awesome. I don't care.

Good, because I haven't read the setting yet. It's on my list, though;).

Quote from: Iron_Rain;883824As well - since I actually post at tgdmb under another name, there's a broad consensus on the boards that most games have some good parts and other parts that are total shit and you just have to play the game inspite of them.

See this thread: "Are any RPGs actually good?"

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56373&highlight=

Are you the guy with an Exalted Charm for a name that started this thread? Because this thread at least sounds interesting;).

Quote from: Iron_Rain;883822Yeah but to be fair, Trollman read enough to figure out that the game uses fucking THAC0 - one of the worst pieces of RPG design ever - IMO - outside of anal circumference from FATAL.

Or - lets get this straight you're a godbound you start with HP= 8 + con modifier, but heavy weapons do 1d10+str or dex.

I'm two pages in and mechanically I'm already deeply skeptical of how "heroic" and "epic" in scope this game is. Maybe the fluff of the game is, but I fail to see how something obviously mechanically borked by page 13 is going to get better.

Oh look - page 16 - these worthless and low stats only matter when demigods fight an appropriate demigod level threat. Great - so when I combat happens "that matters", I can still be dead in two rounds - fantastic!

Page 18 - attribute checks: 21 - the attribute score. If I've learned anything over the years - subtraction should be used as little as possible.

No - this is just some useless retroclone heartbreaker.

Anyone who's QQing that the guys at tgdmb aren't groveling over how amazing this game is has their up their ass at the awful game design used here. And yes, I'll conceed that the setting may indeed be awesome. I don't care.

I take it you completely missed the part where damage, hit points, and hit dice are handled differently from what you're used to?

Trust me, no one is crying over your inability to do the very basic math necessary to transform THAC0 into an ascending AC system. We are getting a good laugh at your antics, though, so by all means keep spewing vitriol at a game you've clearly only skimmed and don't understand.

Quote from: Iron_Rain;883822Or - lets get this straight you're a godbound you start with HP= 8 + con modifier, but heavy weapons do 1d10+str or dex.

That weapon has 40% of doing 1 HP damage, 40% of doing 2 HP damage, and 20% of doing 4 HP damage, before factoring whether it hits or not and any gifts used. At its base, that makes a Godbound more robust than any Exalted against a comparable hit, and Godbound become more robust with experience without further special powers.