Quote from: The Butcher;865410I understand that it sucks, but really, how hard is it to ignore the threadcrappers.

Pretty impossible, and they even managed to get past Ignore lists, because if enough people respond to the bait, you see the quotes in the replies.  If I had been adminning the site as a totalitarian dictatorship like I wanted, I'd have just topic-banned or banned all of them, but sadly, the rest of my administration frowned on my suggested excesses.

Quote from: Nexus;865389Some people like their horror edgy, sexual and dark and/or exploring dark, disturbing themes in their role playing. Allot of people play criminals, mass murderers and other, at best questionable, things in their games, after all. OTOH, others don't see the appeal in sitting around playing Let's Pretend at all regardless if you're pretending to be a Jedi Knight or or a serial killer.

Yeah, and I've played both murderers and paladins. I like my horror dark, and as for exploring sexual themes, well... I've been playing Exalted for quite a while:p!
My question was three-fold.
1) Why does anyone in, presumably, their sane mind, think d20 is a good fit for a horror game?
2) Why would you need a dedicated supplement for bondage hentai?
3) What's fun about hentai bondage, like at all, other than shooting the monsters in the face?
Given those three, I guess it's just not the game for me:).

QuoteThough, perhaps ironically, much of the focus in Black Tokyo is stopping or fighting some of the more messed up crap going on in the setting. You can play on the dark side or be corrupted by it but that's not the default assumption even in a "play the monsters" style campaign. But in that sense, its no different the WoD just more brazen about its sexual aspects.

"Brazen" doesn't actually mean there are more sexual aspects than in WoD.

QuoteMy position is the same as always. Charms are tools, they don't have morality clauses anymore than a knife does. Tools can be misused. The intent of the sex charms is, well, what they do, they can be used in whatever manner the character chooses and its up to the player/gm to determine that. Some Exalts probably did get up to pretty vile things with any of them (there are canon examples of such) things (like Desus and Admiral Arkady).

A character can use their Melee charms to defend a village from raiders or to slaughter the pathetic mortal forces raised to resist their brutal conquest or both. So a character could use Celestial Bliss Trick on an unwilling subject and that would be a majorly messed up thing to do. But allowing for the possibility doesn't mean that

1. The game is endorsing that activity or giving it a pass morally

2. That all players are going to rush eagerly to do so any more than having Grappling rules promotes playing rapists.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one;).

QuoteIt depicts a world with no innate morality or even moral compass attached to power. Which I thought was supposedly one of the things that made Exalted so much more "mature" and "realistic" than games like D and D.

Exactly, and that's why I'm happy that the current developers aren't more likely to remove or edit those charms than they'd be likely to edit the advancement system.

QuoteHell, you can use any of those charms for twisted purposes. Havesh used the disguise effects in Larceny to sleep with women as their husbands (whom he'd murdered to replace...). And some of the outrage brigade -defended- him at the time, even argued with people that called him a rapist for doing so. And I've heard of similar applications of other abilities.

Presence Excellency against mortals means pretty much that nobody can even think to tell you "no". On anything.

QuoteAnd lets not forget the Exalted NC-17 contests.

Those were fun:D!

QuoteI agree Holden is passive aggressive (among other things) but it is telling that that is the first place some people's minds go

Yeah, I admit that was what worried me the most, too.

Quote from: AsenRG;865461"Brazen" doesn't actually mean there are more sexual aspects than in WoD.

That's not what Brazen means, it means bold.  Which in this case means that Black Tokyo is more obvious, more 'in your face'.  There's no actual difference in amount of sex.

Quote from: AsenRG;865461Yeah, and I've played both murderers and paladins. I like my horror dark, and as for exploring sexual themes, well... I've been playing Exalted for quite a while:p!
My question was three-fold.
1) Why does anyone in, presumably, their sane mind, think d20 is a good fit for a horror game?
2) Why would you need a dedicated supplement for bondage hentai?
3) What's fun about hentai bondage, like at all, other than shooting the monsters in the face?
Given those three, I guess it's just not the game for me:).

1 I'm not the one to ask. D20 isn't among my fave systems. Its one I'll for a one shot or similar short term but I wouldn't pick it for a long term game. Apparently the series (franchise?) is fairly successful in rpg terms so I guess enough people feel it works.

2. Its not just for bondage hentai. Black Tokyo is a supplement and setting for supernatural erotic horror stories. Anime like Bible Black, Taminan Asagi, Urotsokidji and La Blue Girl. Wicked City would be a good example mood and visuals though its more ecchi, IIRC.

3. Again, a matter of taste. I don't get what's fun about splelunking, stabbing random monsters and gathering loot but plenty of people love dungeon crawls. Or whatever the Hell Exalted is "supposed" to be about these days doesn't strike me as fun at all but for some its the only way to play.

Quote"Brazen" doesn't actually mean there are more sexual aspects than in WoD.

That's not exactly what brazen means. Brazen means bold, explicit and detailed. I actually don't disagree that there was allot of sex in the WoD but it was pretty subdued compared to most of Black Tokyo (though some things got really close). Personal games were often much more brazen (and to be fair, some of the official fiction and the Black Dog).

It was a running gag locally that two most popular house rules in the WoD where ignoring the Vampires didn't enjoy or want sex and that Garou shall note mate with Garou.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;865441Pretty impossible, and they even managed to get past Ignore lists, because if enough people respond to the bait, you see the quotes in the replies.  If I had been adminning the site as a totalitarian dictatorship like I wanted, I'd have just topic-banned or banned all of them, but sadly, the rest of my administration frowned on my suggested excesses.

"Perhaps the government should dissolve the people and elect a new one."
-Bertold Brecht (paraphrased)

They really seem to have stepped in a pile of it with the sex charms; even some of the games more ardent supporters seem to be taking a step back over it.

I'm not sure if I should respect the Devs for sticking to their guns and wonder if they understand what apparently their target audience these days.

Quote from: Nexus;865538They really seem to have stepped in a pile of it with the sex charms; even some of the games more ardent supporters seem to be taking a step back over it.

I'm not sure if I should respect the Devs for sticking to their guns and wonder if they understand what apparently their target audience these days.

They caved last time. I doubt one could grow a spine in that period of time.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;865542They caved last time. I doubt one could grow a spine in that period of time.

Spine?  No.  Arrogance?  Given the amount of praise they got, the amount of moderator power abuse they got away with, and their natural egos it might possible.

Quote from: James Gillen;865479"Perhaps the government should dissolve the people and elect a new one."
-Bertold Brecht (paraphrased)

"Hang 'em first, try 'em later."  Judge Roy Bean.

It does strike me as so weird the only out given in Ex3 for social influence effects that make the player uncomfortable are strictly about sex. If you haven't invested in rendering something "unacceptable influence" your character could be talked into just about anything regardless of how you feel about it.

My noble Dawn general could be talked into cutting his daughters heart out as an offering the Unconquered Sun for victory by the beautiful charismatic Zenith regardless of how badly that bothered me but she couldn't get get him to have a quickie with her without my expression OOC permission?

There are ways to make things very difficult to convince you to do but there are drawbacks to them If I made one my Intimacies: My daughter (love) and Daughter (Protect) at Defining it means those actions shape almost my everything thought and action.

And a clever manipulator can use them against me. Its is dramatic and fits the source material though but so do "impossible" seductions. People worry more about who their fictional characters have imaginary sex with more than commit imaginary torture, murder, theft and betrayal against but its always been an odd dichotomy to me.

I'd be bugged allot more by being forced to play  daughter killing Stannis than adulterous Eddard.

It goes back to that whole thing about many people being pretty fine with all sorts of horribly graphic violence but getting squeamish as soon as they see a nipple. I don't get it at all, but then I learned long ago that I really just don't get the outrage that most people in my part of the world seem to muster when it comes to anything related to sex.

For example, one of my favorite shows is Grimm. Last night they showed two guys basically getting mauled and having their throats ripped out. In earlier episodes we saw the severed head of the main character's mother. That's totally fine for NBC, but there's no way in hell that any of the rather attractive women on that show would ever be shown topless for even a split second. That's pretty fucked up if you think about it.

Anyway, rant over. And as for...

Quote from: Nexus;865591adulterous Eddard.

R + L = J    

Quote from: Future Villain Band;865281Speaking as former and current mod

FVB, the once and future mod !

Well... Its three weeks later and the threads closed but its something.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?770777-Warning-for-Holden-Warning

Quote from: Nexus;865591People worry more about who their fictional characters have imaginary sex with more than commit imaginary torture, murder, theft and betrayal against.

Welcome to America.

Quote from: Nexus;865591I'd be bugged allot more by being forced to play  daughter killing Stannis than adulterous Eddard.

The Rh'llor cult is a Religion of Peace.
Wylla as a serving girl, was not in a position of cultural power to refuse Eddard, thus every act committed towards her was rape.

You sir, are a rapist, sexist, racist, Rh'llorophobe and apologist for same.

Quote from: CRKrueger;865775The Rh'llor cult is a Religion of Peace.
Wylla as a serving girl, was not in a position of cultural power to refuse Eddard, thus every act committed towards her was rape.

You sir, are a rapist, sexist, racist, Rh'llorophobe and apologist for same.

FOOL!  You always stick with the imp.