Quote from: Nexus;865124Once again there seems to be a real dichotomy between what is accept for physical mechanics to determine as opposed to social. Outlier results happen in for example combat. The farm boy armed with a rusty knife managed to critically injure the heavily armored warrior is fine but the skilled tempter manages to seduce the frigid academic or the gay man (in the sense of convincing them to have sex or some kind of physical intimate relationship for one encounter) isn't though there's several ways to interpret both and both have happened in reality let alone fiction.

'Go ahead and stab me with your knife, just don't try stabbing me with your dick!'

Quote from: Nexus;865107Bring it bit back to gaming in general. I admit these constant shitfest are really starting to change my mind on the viability of social mechanics at all. At least if you're trying to avoid horrors like Erasure By Failing to take into account every possible Fringe Case in the world.

How dare you call my obscure self-identification label that applies to no one else on Earth as a Fringe Case!

Quote from: Nexus;865126Took 'em awhile but they finally got around to closing Exalted - thread.

I wonder how much OP/WW contribute to the running of RPGnet.

The faster rpg publishers and developers denounce rpg.net the better the rpg community will be.  Seriously it is a corrupt piece of shit site that should burn to the ground.

Quote from: One Horse Town;865190I wonder how much OP/WW contribute to the running of RPGnet.

Nothing.  Only one mod is an actual OP employee, and while three or four others are regular freelancers you'd be hard pressed not to find a bunch of freelancers who haven't worked for them.

As far as fiscal contributions, only Shannon would know about that, and Shannon is absolutely hand's off with the moderation.  

I mean, if OP was running things, that thread wouldn't have been that long and ugly.  Clearly, Cess just thought it had gone from useful to annoying.

Quote from: Snowman0147;865273The faster rpg publishers and developers denounce rpg.net the better the rpg community will be.

Naw, keep it going, so the sorts of people who like that sort of thing have a place to go... making it easy for me to avoid them.

But the thing is, it was not that ugly!! That is fucking propaganda speech of the mods and some fanboys. Sure, there were some a bit heated posts, but most of them were of whining fanboy bitches who didn't get that there are legitimate problems with their glory game.
I really don't get why it is so bad to have a minus thread when it is allowed to just spout unreflected praise in several threads. Bias in its pure form, i guess. Especially considering the different moderation-criteria that seem to apply to those two thread-categories.

Too bad Shannon is hands off when it comes to moderation. The Exalted - thread was one very good example of how biased the moderation is over there. And that is not only happening when the topic is Exalted.

But to be honest, i was surprised it was allowed to go on as long as it had.

Quote from: Anglachel;865280But the thing is, it was not that ugly!! That is fucking propaganda speech of the mods and some fanboys. Sure, there were some a bit heated posts, but most of them were of whining fanboy bitches who didn't get that there are legitimate problems with their glory game.
I really don't get why it is so bad to have a minus thread when it is allowed to just spout unreflected praise in several threads. Bias in its pure form, i guess. Especially considering the different moderation-criteria that seem to apply to those two thread-categories.

Speaking as former and current mod who tries to observe things, there's an institutional bias against minus threads like there's an institutional bias against threadcraps and edition warring and drop-in troll posts, and it's basically because it stirs up the hornet's nest.  

My personal comfort level is to let minus threads and the like run longer, but that's not the site's tack as a whole, and in all deference to those who do find them to be annoying, there was a time when they really got under my skin.  Because while plus-threads got started because there were contentious topics that always turned into shit-shows, minus threads are basically a way of saying, "Don't say anything positive, I just want to complain."  They don't serve counter-purposes.  Now that I'm older and give far less of a shit, they rankle less, but I see why they're problematic from a site culture standpoint.

QuoteToo bad Shannon is hands off when it comes to moderation. The Exalted - thread was one very good example of how biased the moderation is over there. And that is not only happening when the topic is Exalted.

But to be honest, i was surprised it was allowed to go on as long as it had.

I'm not.  The staff really does try to give out leeway.  I just don't think the forums over there are good at handling the idea behind a minus-thread.

Quote from: Anglachel;865280Too bad Shannon is hands off when it comes to moderation. The Exalted - thread was one very good example of how biased the moderation is over there. And that is not only happening when the topic is Exalted.

Considering that the entire d&d sub-forum was one massive 'minus' thread for 5e for 2 years, ably abetted by some mods, you can only argue that there's no moderator bias if you're one of those biased moderators.

Although i am finding it rather strange after all these years that our latest influx of new members is over the new edition of a game that is an RPGnet darling (surely nothing to do with the number of mods involved? No! Course not)

Anyway, as FVB is the current authorised RPGnet/RPGsite interface, i'm sure he'll explain away for the amusement of his chums.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;865281Speaking as former and current mod who tries to observe things, there's an institutional bias against minus threads like there's an institutional bias against threadcraps and edition warring and drop-in troll posts, and it's basically because it stirs up the hornet's nest.  

Ok, then how come rpg.net is not able to at least kick out mods that do those exact things themselves?

I understand the institutional bias against minus threads. Or at least how they are perceived by the majority of the mods. But if some of them cared to take a closer look, and not just take the side of their mod-comrades who happen to be devs on said game, they could see that (at least in that special case) the ... vitriol...mostly came from two sources - people who are fans of Ex3e and wanted to argue AND (which i find much more problematic) really really unprofessional behaviour from one dev and mod.
Granted, i am not yet "up to date" with that thread (around page 100) but up until this point, the problems were mostly coming from what i described up there.
I saw that at the end some posters did not listen to the red text...so yeah, that's not cool.

Anyway...i'm just real tired of the mod bias over there (although to be fair it is most often the same clique of mods that i find to be highly biased).

I know, i know...don't go there if you don't like it. Yeah...but i'm a bit sad about that because i really loved the place once. And it still has very good threads as well.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;865276Nothing.  Only one mod is an actual OP employee, and while three or four others are regular freelancers you'd be hard pressed not to find a bunch of freelancers who haven't worked for them.

As far as fiscal contributions, only Shannon would know about that, and Shannon is absolutely hand's off with the moderation.  

I mean, if OP was running things, that thread wouldn't have been that long and ugly.  Clearly, Cess just thought it had gone from useful to annoying.

How was that thread ugly? Seriously, most of the contention was created by people trying to defend Ex 3 and telling others their problems and issues were meaningless. (and then you had Rand Brittan campaigning on trouble ticles to get it closed...)

It was calm no one was hurling vitriol and personal insults and group attacks around. I think there were two instances of red text: the initial warning which was kind of vague on what topic to avoid (Rachel Cartacos' issues, her sexuality, the charm entirely? Asexulity in Creation?) then the close message that came 10 minutes after another post RLSS.

 I've seen much more hostile, aggressive thread that were allowed to die a natural death with the difference being they weren't about one of the site's sacred cows.

Quote from: Anglachel;865280But the thing is, it was not that ugly!! That is fucking propaganda speech of the mods and some fanboys. Sure, there were some a bit heated posts, but most of them were of whining fanboy bitches who didn't get that there are legitimate problems with their glory game.
I really don't get why it is so bad to have a minus thread when it is allowed to just spout unreflected praise in several threads. Bias in its pure form, i guess. Especially considering the different moderation-criteria that seem to apply to those two thread-categories.

Too bad Shannon is hands off when it comes to moderation. The Exalted - thread was one very good example of how biased the moderation is over there. And that is not only happening when the topic is Exalted.

But to be honest, i was surprised it was allowed to go on as long as it had.

You're not the only one. The push to close it was immediate compared to other minus threads.

So - threads are a bad unproductive idea but several threads of "Hey, lets suck these guys dicks a little harder and dog pile anyone that doesn't!" are fine? The minus threads do serve a purpose: actually allowing criticism of without massive dogpiling and getting shouted down. And its not like posters don't come in and say "positive" things (or usually just tell the other poster they're problems don't mean anything or are totally imaginary).

Quote from: Future Villain Band;865281Because while plus-threads got started because there were contentious topics that always turned into shit-shows, minus threads are basically a way of saying, "Don't say anything positive, I just want to complain."  They don't serve counter-purposes.  Now that I'm older and give far less of a shit, they rankle less, but I see why they're problematic from a site culture standpoint.


I'm not.  The staff really does try to give out leeway.  I just don't think the forums over there are good at handling the idea behind a minus-thread.

  Yeah; from my perspective, minus-threads are really about venting more than anything, and that doesn't fit well with RPGNet's push to be a positive, constructive, affirming space (so long as you toe the ideological line ).

   I think they may have closed it a bit preemptively, but I could see things going downhill rapidly as of post #1250. My (perhaps overblown and most certainly biased) theory is that Exalted was written from sources and for a target audience of young pagans, but the fanbase has become old pagans in the interim. See Chesterton's Song of the Strange Ascetic or the contrast between Harold and Ogier in The Ballad of the White Horse, Book III.

     "And a man grows ugly for women,
          And a man grows dull with ale,
          Well if he find in his soul at last
          Fury, that does not fail.

         ...

           "And you that sit by the fire are young,
          And true love waits for you;
          But the king and I grow old, grow old,
          And hate alone is true."--the anthem of the Social Justice Warrior?

Quote from: Nexus;865294How was that thread ugly? Seriously, most of the contention was created by people trying to defend Ex 3 and telling others their problems and issues were meaningless. (and then you had Rand Brittan campaigning on trouble ticles to get it closed...)

It was calm no one was hurling vitriol and personal insults and group attacks around. I think there were two instances of red text: the initial warning which was kind of vague on what topic to avoid (Rachel Cartacos' issues, her sexuality, the charm entirely? Asexulity in Creation?) then the close message that came 10 minutes after another post RLSS.

 I've seen much more hostile, aggressive thread that were allowed to die a natural death with the difference being they weren't about one of the site's sacred cows.

I've always been amused when someone goes into a plus thread and posts something negative only to be roundly castigated and banned. Cause there's a rule about that.

Same as there is for bringing your sunshine and bullshit into a minus thread. Which is the second post in the thread.

By an Admin.

And people wonder why we think their rules are bullshit.