Quote from: Nexus;863897Edit: I debated replying to this but I felt clarification was worth the risk of derail. But really it should probably move to another thread or PM.

I don't expect anyone else to "care" or not really. For one, I just think its odd, particularly how strident they are about it. It's an odd habit and seems more showy "Look how progressive I am!" posturing way than productive as far as presenting interesting and developed female characters.

I've never been fond of the idea that inverting a discriminatory practice "evens the score" particularly when that practice was more the result of thoughtlessness rather than deliberate exclusion (I doubt many writers, rpgs or others wise have deliberately not used female character for quite some time)) particularly doubling down on in the process: doing it deliberately and going a step further (I haven't seen even minor or subservient or "token" males in their writings though in fairness I might have missed them I tend to skim the "fiction" as I find it overly florid).

It's not "unfair". Its just odd and doesn't really seem to serve much of a purpose aside from drawing attention to the doer. So. mission accomplished I suppose as I did comment on it when it would otherwise have been typically mediocre game based fiction.

For what it is worth. I kind of agree with you: just using female examples because "progress", is as stupid as insisting that sexism is ok in sword&sorcery, because "that is how it always has been" or it is "true to the source material".

In my experience, the truly progressive people just roll their eyes a bit at this kind of shit and go about their day. I don't need that kind of posturing, I get where he comes from and think it is a poor way of going about things, but hey, getting into a fight about it? Not worth it.

But what do I know, I am european and never got the uproar that americans seem to have when they see breasts or a penis in illustrations.

Man, the fanbase comes across as almost obsessed with making sure there's plenty of things that make the PCs feel significantly afraid for their lives. Including mortals and the local wild life. And more that you never move beyond that.

Quote from: Nexus;863906Mam, the fanbase comes across as almost obsessed with making sure there's plenty of things that make the PCs feel significantly afraid for their lives. Including mortals and the local wild life. And more that you never move beyond that.

Where do you see that occurring? I don't doubt it. The fan base really seems to hate Solars. I see them as an opportunity to tell bigger stories.

Quote from: Ryan L.;863908Where do you see that occurring? I don't doubt it. The fan base really seems to hate Solars. I see them as an opportunity to tell bigger stories.

It seems to be an ongoing thing since, I don't know, late 1st? DB aren't strong enough, mortals are strong enough  which generally seems to mean at some point PCs move beyond them as far as being easily killable or fearing them. I was just recently reminded by a comment about the new mechanics making sure Heroic Mortals were still a thread even in the high essence game and the Wyld hunt could make anyone in Creation fear for their lives. Its not just Solars for me. I don't think being like Chejop and Ma Ha Suchi should be sweating the local mortal dojo champions either.

There's plenty of claims that Solars are the most "popular" splat, played the most often and all that but it really doesn't come across in the online discussions either on rpg.net, the OP forums or really much of anywhere I've seen Exalted regularly discussed. Each edition seems to "take them down a peg." For instance the 3rd edition background removing most (I'd say all) of the uncertainty from Usurpation. And the period when the Solars were just, good rulers getting progressively shorter and shorter.

But its one of the areas where I seem to diverge from the more mainstream fans.

I agree completely. I wasn't sure if there was a new discussion kicking off how the Solars are still too powerful or one of the old Exalts still running around aren't beatable enough. I'm not sure why fans want to make it so that all of the Exalts are on the same level. It seems like a constant drive by some number of the fan base.

Quote from: Ryan L.;863921I agree completely. I wasn't sure if there was a new discussion kicking off how the Solars are still too powerful or one of the old Exalts still running around aren't beatable enough. I'm not sure why fans want to make it so that all of the Exalts are on the same level. It seems like a constant drive by some number of the fan base.

One of the things that attracted me to the setting is that it wasn't "fair". There were different power tiers and that was that. The Solars were the most powerful, at least potentially. That's what made their return a wonder and a blessing. They were going to change things but would it be for good or ill? Now they seem to be slightly bigger fish in an extremely large pond not a world shaking threat or Big Damn Heroes.

The Usurpation has gone from epic desperate war that spanned centuries, razed parts of Creation and was in doubt until the last Solar fell to the work of a long weekend where most of the Solars died like chumps over their dinner and the rest where hunted down like dogs while trying to flee and hide.

From a logistic stand point, making all the Exalts "equal" effectively makes the Terrestrials in charge. They'll always have a big numerical advantage over Celestials. But originally, the game was going to be focused on them as the "default" play group. But it makes the game feel allot more like "typical" fantasy where you're one group of adventurers in a world full of them. Adding what, 10 more new splats doesn't help here either.

Quote from: Brand55;863845Congratulations. That was my reaction the first few times Holden pulled stuff like this back during 2nd edition, but now I've grown to expect it from him. I've actually started to wonder if some of the other OPP people don't wish he'd be muzzled from time to time. Public relations is definitely not his specialty.

Oh, I wasn't surprised he thinks that, that much I expected. I was surprised he wrote it in public.

Quote from: gibdefs;863851Nobody actually plays Exalted.

Mwahahahaha, man, the lack of emoticons makes the joke even funnier:D! It's almost as if you believed it.

Quote from: Nexus;863896Yeah, some settings just aren't conducive to "Wandering adventurers" as a basic and plain archetype. I've found that its usually modern/futuristic settings that don't assume some kind of new frontier or Post Apocalypse, etc. GURPS Transhuman Space, for example. Its a well developed, expansive setting but "wander and get into trouble" is going to to get most PCs swiftly arrested or worse in major swaths of the setting or at least possibly result in a limited game for many. There are possibilities, of course but they can use some additional explanation and detailing for people fresh to the setting that might not grok them right off..

I have a name for those settings.
"The Interesting Ones".

Quote from: Nexus;863923One of the things that attracted me to the setting is that it wasn't "fair". There were different power tiers and that was that. The Solars were the most powerful, at least potentially. That's what made their return a wonder and a blessing. They were going to change things but would it be for good or ill? Now they seem to be slightly bigger fish in an extremely large pond not a world shaking threat or Big Damn Heroes.

The Usurpation has gone from epic desperate war that spanned centuries, razed parts of Creation and was in doubt until the last Solar fell to the work of a long weekend where most of the Solars died like chumps over their dinner and the rest where hunted down like dogs while trying to flee and hide.

From a logistic stand point, making all the Exalts "equal" effectively makes the Terrestrials in charge. They'll always have a big numerical advantage over Celestials. But originally, the game was going to be focused on them as the "default" play group. But it makes the game feel allot more like "typical" fantasy where you're one group of adventurers in a world full of them. Adding what, 10 more new splats doesn't help here either.

It's still unfair. The Solars can effortlessly do stuff a Dragon Blooded can only dream about, or would require expending more resources for only approximating the effect.
It's just that there might be a slightly lower gap in direct combat power, but even that is probably going to change.

Mind you, Sidereals are likely going to be really dangerous. Yes, even to Solaroids. Their ability just synergizes neatly with the new edition, but if you aren't using it, you can deal everything to where you want it;).

Quote from: AsenRG;863950Oh, I wasn't surprised he thinks that, that much I expected. I was surprised he wrote it in public.

If you thought that was bad, you should have seen some of the tantrums he threw in defense of Return of the Scarlet Empress. He was just a freelancer then so he was given a little more leeway by the community, but it was still pretty embarrassing to see him absolutely lose it whenever someone would really tear into that book.

Quote from: Brand55;863958If you thought that was bad, you should have seen some of the tantrums he threw in defense of Return of the Scarlet Empress. He was just a freelancer then so he was given a little more leeway by the community, but it was still pretty embarrassing to see him absolutely lose it whenever someone would really tear into that book.

I don't use canned adventures, people:D! They're more work than my usual Refereeing style. They're very seldom written in a way that doesn't require me to patch them after contact with players. And when I started GMing, they were prohibitively expensive to Bulgarians.

On the plus side,  I only read half a spoiler tag on The Great Purple before deciding that this one doesn't interest me either, Exalted or no Exalted. So I've never seen Holden's attempts at a perfect defense, either;).

A minus thread about Exalted? That's taking things too far apparently.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?769945-Giant-Threads-of-Minus


A comparison to the fucking KKK? Are you serious...

As a Hero fan I've really got to roll my eyes. For what felt like the better part of a decade when you couldn't start a Hero System thread without it being carpet bombed. Usually by the same handful of people and the overall mod response to play the World's smallest violin.

Quote from: Brand55;863958If you thought that was bad, you should have seen some of the tantrums he threw in defense of Return of the Scarlet Empress. He was just a freelancer then so he was given a little more leeway by the community, but it was still pretty embarrassing to see him absolutely lose it whenever someone would really tear into that book.

Its even more amusing now to watch how eagerly he and the other current team shit all over Return (and pretty much everything else in 2ed but still...)

The admins at rpg.net certainly seem to be... an unusual bunch.

Regarding the BP/XP split, with the caveat that I don't know anything about the system, what's stopping people from calculating costs based off totals rather than the specific value that's being increased? By that I mean if you have 8 points in Physical Attributes, then the 9th costs X (doesn't matter if it's raising your Stamina to 2 or your Dexterity to 5). Could work for any of the skill categories in the same way.

Quote from: Ryan L.;863760A flowchart someone put together over on Reddit.

It's not THAT complex.

Neither is it NOT complex.

JG

Quote from: Efaun;863870As for Holden's comment: He is a really bad game designer and here it shows the most. Bad might be overdoing it - INEXPERIENCED is probably the word I am looking for. I actually think there are some intruiging mechanical bits in Exalted 3e, but it is so cluttered from poor design decisions...
He is unable to take criticism well, but being able to take criticism well is one of the basic skills one has to have to make it in any field with project work. Sadly his reaction to criticism is to double down on stupid and throw more mechanics at it.

"This game is bad.  And you should feel bad for designing it."

Quote from: James Gillen;864004"This game is bad.  And you should feel bad for designing it."

I am quickly approaching that. Which pains me, because I have many many fond memories of Exalted and there was a time when I liked the game so much that I was pretty much playing it exclusively for a couple of years.