QuoteThe combat system is seriously, seriously good. Maybe the first worthy rival for D&D4E, though very different

.

What in the utter fuck?

This is the second post in the minus thread, and I am totally floored.

Its odd how some of the defenses  and answers are 180 degree contraditory.

Well the reason for that in many cases is because Stephen L Sheppard is a usully involved. I've seen him say something multiple times only to be told that's not how it is by someone else. Of course he's inner circle Exalted so he might be right more e often than not but I hope not b ecuae his answers usually suck. Then Rand steps in to let others know that it's OK for the current devs to shit on previous work because they think there were mistakes made.

On another note, it took me 3 days to read 20 pages on combat. I had to reread things multiple times to grok what I think is going on. That may say more about me than the book. I'm not sure yet. I've started a playtest interest thread over there to try it out, which I hope to get to soon.

Quote from: Ryan L.;862175Well the reason for that in many cases is because Stephen L Sheppard is a usully involved. I've seen him say something multiple times only to be told that's not how it is by someone else. Of course he's inner circle Exalted so he might be right more e often than not but I hope not b ecuae his answers usually suck. Then Rand steps in to let others know that it's OK for the current devs to shit on previous work because they think there were mistakes made.

On another note, it took me 3 days to read 20 pages on combat. I had to reread things multiple times to grok what I think is going on. That may say more about me than the book. I'm not sure yet. I've started a playtest interest thread over there to try it out, which I hope to get to soon.

There's a term for that in video game circles:  The Molyneux Cycle.

It's where the developer praises or over promises the game he/she is working on, but totally craps and throws under the bus any previous work they did, agreeing with everyone who claimed it wasn't as good as hyped.  Then they start working on the next game, and the immediately trash-talk their last version, again, claiming that it wasn't as good as promised with false humility.

WW/OP has done that now for all three editions of Exalted.

To a certain degree you've got to do that to get people to buy the new edition.

Ryan L. it shouldn't take a day to learn a combat system in a rpg.  The fact it took you days speaks much about Exalted 3rd edition and none of it is good.

Quote from: One Horse Town;862178To a certain degree you've got to do that to get people to buy the new edition.

Crapping on your own stuff, and the people you worked for/with (who may not be working with you on this new version) is uncool, tacky and frankly unnecessary.

Wizards of The Coast has never said that earlier version of D&D sucked.

Cue the conga line of "game remains the same" references...

I think my problem is that the rules aren't clear and there are almost 0 examples. The examples that they do have aren't entirely clear. So instead of just reading like I normally would I try to get it down in one go. Also, I get distracted by things that I find immensely more fun, like changing my kid's diaper.

An example of a poorly worded example:

QuoteFor example, a wrestler who clinches an opponent and wins the control roll by a margin of 5 successes will maintain control for 5 additional turns. In that same round, she is attacked twice; one attack misses, while the other inflicts 3 points of Initiative damage. Because she was attacked twice and damaged once, she forfeits three turns of control—the victim will now escape after only 2 turns.

It's supposed to be obvious that it is the two attacks and the damaged once part that changes the control, but I kept sticking on the 3 points of Initiative damage. This I admit as my failing since it's been reiterated that one should take everything literally in the book. I just didn't see why an attack that produces damage should affect control twice. It also doesn't help that the examples are formatted in line with the text with no italicizing or anything. I haven't even gotten to charms which are poorly worded according to others.

Quote from: Nexus;862158In the first few pages that complaint thread looks like more of the same. People state problems or concerns they have and get told how stupid and wrong they are for that, how the game was obviously something different since the dawn of time and they're bad people for wanting or liking something different.

Edit: And, as I think I've said before and Resplendentscorpion mentions in that thread the frequent positive comments may indicate that many of the less that hardcore fans have left the fold awhile ago or just given up.

If you really want to get some honest opinions from people who aren't afraid of the mods coming down on them, read the comments section of the Exalted Kickstarter. That place is quite entertaining, especially since Rich Thomas apparently made a comment on OPP's website slamming Kickstarter users for complaining. That did NOT go over well with some people. I think my favorite line was the guy who apologized to Rich for being an unruly ATM.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;862180Wizards of The Coast has never said that earlier version of D&D sucked.

Actually, that was one of the major themes of their 4E advertising. It's one of the many ways in which they alienated large portions of their fanbase.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;862186Actually, that was one of the major themes of their 4E advertising. It's one of the many ways in which they alienated large portions of their fanbase.

Well it's good to see that the d3vs for Ex3 have taken the right lessons from 4th edition.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;862187Well it's good to see that the d3vs for Ex3 have taken the right lessons from 4th edition.

It does seem like 4th Edition fans really like this game in general. At least the combat system.

Honestly, they were screwed from the get go.

They promised the moon and the stars and delivered two years late. People's expectations were even higher thanks to that..

Unless this game also delivered free blow jobs and mustache rides there was going to be some disappointment.

It will indeed be interesting how that [Exalted-] thread will go. Have not read into it yet, but i bet that one of two things will happen:

1) the mods close it down (after banning some of the "offenders" in the thread)

or

2) the thread becomes a joke real soon because there is more + than - and/or the people taking the - seriously will get "shot down" by the fanbois dogpiling the thread with all kinds of accusations and "you just didn't understand it" BS.

@ Ryan L. - Yeah, the "skill" of the Devs to phrase stuff clearly is...non-existant. Or to put it another way - for a game as involved as they want it to be, you'd need some folks who can really "code" sentences...aka a programmer or a mathematician (or at least someone with basic logic skills and a grasp of language and its meanings).
The big problem they have is that they can not clearly separate fluff from rules-text. The result is something that is kind of neither...neither good fluff nor a clear rule. So in other words - failed on all accounts.