I exist on this site merely to remind people of "Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game". This Storyteller Game, a modification of the original rules, pre-Revised era, was not pensive! Nor lethal! In fact, I don't think there are actual rules for dying. I'd say the combat roots of Exalted lie somewhere in SF:TSG, though I don't think Exalted took the right lessons from it.

Shoryuken!

The Sardonyx System has my interest. I think slight change in the right direction is better than none. I agree, though, that even Sardonyx is not what i would call a new system (it seems all the folks who work at OPP have no idea what words like "rebuilt from the ground up" or "a totally different system than Storyteller/Storytelling" mean).
Still, i find the way the Devs of Scion 2 interact with their fans and talk openly about Sardonyx enough reason to give them a chance. No system is perfect and some of the parts do sound interesting. And all in all, i like dicepool systems with Att+Skill.

OTOH i agree that such a system most probably will also not scale that well. And i do wonder why they cling to the basic structure so hard?! I mean there are tons of possibilities to use dicepools if you have to. If you are all stuck in the ST system and can't unsee what you have seen why not just hire a freelancer who has worked on different systems (and NOT ST stuff) and/or knows his math well and can build a truly different system that is still...recognizable...enough. Oh well...

As to Holden as a Dev. ... well to be fair he is not the only problem with the Exalted team (*cough* Morke *cough*...*cough*Rich*cough*). To solely blame him is wrong. So i don't think that every team he is with is going to produce shit...especially if he is not the lead-designer or co-lead designer. So yeah...

Got no problem with Storyteller, just don't want to roll 50d10 to see if i punch a man through a mountain.

As one of the designers of Storypath ("Sardonyx") sure we know. We've designed other systems for other companies, for our own individual self-pubs. We just wanted a D10 dice pool system with dots on the character sheet, is all. Call it knowing our audience.

Storypath has less in common with Storyteller than Storytelling (the rules nWoD uses) does. It does many things differently, but it's not made for modern-horror games. It's made for action-adventure with varying scale of characters within a scene. You could run the Avengers with it. One of the team runs a Ghost in the Shell game with it.

It has had no crossover of development staff with Exalted 3rd, but we wouldn't use it for Exalted or either World of Darkness anyway - Storypath is for our gamelines, not the ones we licence from CCP.

Oh, I see. Backtracked up the thread to Holden's .sig.

Holden's a writer on Aeon, not its Developer. Aeon's Developer is John Snead, working under Ian Watson as the overall Trinity Dev. He didn't contribute to the rules engine.

Quote from: DaveB;851324Aeon's Developer is John Snead, working under Ian Watson as the overall Trinity Dev. He didn't contribute to the rules engine.

Oh! I like Mr. Snead's work... I'm assuming Ian Watson isn't the same Ian Watson who writes scifi novels (whose stuff I also like)?

Quote from: Simlasa;851328Oh! I like Mr. Snead's work... I'm assuming Ian Watson isn't the same Ian Watson who writes scifi novels (whose stuff I also like)?

No, he's not that Ian Watson. (I like him, too. The Fire Worm was my main inspiration for my bits of Beast: The Primordial).

I was terribly disappointed the day I found out British Steve Jackson was not the same man as GURPS Steve Jackson.

So much for Aeon/Trinity.  If it's still using the the Storyteller system again, it's still not going to be able handle combat.  I don't care if it's stripped down, modified or whatever, it's still not going to cut it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;851333So much for Aeon/Trinity.  If it's still using the the Storyteller system again, it's still not going to be able handle combat.  I don't care if it's stripped down, modified or whatever, it's still not going to cut it.

It's not using the Storyteller system again.

Quote from: DaveB;851324Oh, I see. Backtracked up the thread to Holden's .sig.

Holden's a writer on Aeon, not its Developer. Aeon's Developer is John Snead, working under Ian Watson as the overall Trinity Dev. He didn't contribute to the rules engine.

Hey Dave! Just wanted to say I love your work, and I'm looking forward to Aeon! Everything about it sounds pretty interesting so far!

Quote from: DaveB;851324Oh, I see. Backtracked up the thread to Holden's .sig.

Holden's a writer on Aeon, not its Developer. Aeon's Developer is John Snead, working under Ian Watson as the overall Trinity Dev. He didn't contribute to the rules engine.

Okay. My only concern with Holden was simply his security concerns getting in the way of playtesting. A an exception-based power system that provides automatic successes to a dice pool is going to need a solid playtest pool. I've always liked John Snead's work, so you guys have my attention.

Quote from: Baulderstone;851348Okay. My only concern with Holden was simply his security concerns getting in the way of playtesting. A an exception-based power system that provides automatic successes to a dice pool is going to need a solid playtest pool. I've always liked John Snead's work, so you guys have my attention.

Hah. Yeah. Two months ago I coordinated Mage: The Awakening's open-call playtest (we'd had invitationals before then), whittling 95 groups who applied/volunteered down to 10, sending them playtest packets, laying out what I needed in terms of notes. Not a single leak (so far!) and a notably above-norm quality of feedback. And I took the complete text to GenCon - had one copy on me (and ran a pick-up game of it for fans in a hotel lobby), left one at the booth.

Storypath will go up (without any of the Scion or Trinity specific mechanics, and entirely setting-less) for people to read and tinker with as soon as possible. It's been sent to a laundry list of industry figures for commentary already.

INCOMING RANT:

Why the hell are leaks even important?  What?  You're afraid that someone will steal your ideas and come out 'first' stealing all your costumers?  I'm sorry, Cupcake, but the RPG market ain't that competitive.

The only thing being afraid of 'leaks' does in this hobby is make some people question just how good it'll be if you're afraid to show it to your potential audience.  So buck up, pumpkin, and let it all out.  The more people know about an RPG, and if it's really good, the more they'll want it.

There's no such thing as leaks if you're willing to show people what you got.  This isn't a movie, or even a video game, where knowing a bit of the potential story could ruin the entire thing, we make up our own 'stories' here.  There's no right nor wrong way to play.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;851364INCOMING RANT:

Why the hell are leaks even important?  What?  You're afraid that someone will steal your ideas and come out 'first' stealing all your costumers?  I'm sorry, Cupcake, but the RPG market ain't that competitive.

The only thing being afraid of 'leaks' does in this hobby is make some people question just how good it'll be if you're afraid to show it to your potential audience.  So buck up, pumpkin, and let it all out.  The more people know about an RPG, and if it's really good, the more they'll want it.

There's no such thing as leaks if you're willing to show people what you got.  This isn't a movie, or even a video game, where knowing a bit of the potential story could ruin the entire thing, we make up our own 'stories' here.  There's no right nor wrong way to play.

What I gather from the Dev posts is that they felt if anything was revealed piecemeal not in its whole and complete Final Form it would be misinterpreted by the fanbase and unjustly picked apart. The Leak also deprived them of the thrill of a big reveal. I guess it something like how parents might feel if their kids find their Christmas presents early?

The discussion and disagreement over the leak is being held up as proof they were right. Though generally the reception has been positive, IME And fan hostility seems to stem largely from delays, lack of information for so long and the general attitude of the devs have demonstrated more than the product itself. And really, welcome to Real World. Everyone isn't going to love every part of everything you do.

The weirdest trend in TBP threads discussing the leak is people that claim they haven't read a word of the document telling people that say they have of misinterpreting it because they're conclusion is negative. The amount of pure faith invested in this project is amazing.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;851364INCOMING RANT:

Why the hell are leaks even important?  What?  You're afraid that someone will steal your ideas and come out 'first' stealing all your costumers?  I'm sorry, Cupcake, but the RPG market ain't that competitive.

Leaks worsen the Signal : Noise ratio. When you receive feedback for your new system, game, whatever, you want input only from those you selected, not a horde of people with potentially partial information.

You are correct, this isn't about theft of ideas. It is about taking the time to communicate the materials to be tested along with the unwritten assumptions. This takes time, effort, and direct communication which is difficult to explain to the masses.