Quote from: Snowman0147;733990Thankfully that is your opinion.  Point is there is some value in those unpleasant things and while I will never engage them in fantasy much less in real life you can't simply say it has no place.  Especially Exalted which is known to be a very beautiful place as much as it is ugly.  While there are things I rather just plain avoid at all cost I will point out taking them out of the game would actually harm the setting over all.  Just because you see some thing in a fantasy setting that completely fiction and makes you angry doesn't give you the right to tell developers to remove it.  That type energy is better off in real life.

Though I will give you the point in that the developers in for the third edition did promise a lot of things.  I just think they promise too much and should just focus on streamlining the system to make it easier for new players.  The setting itself shouldn't be touch at all because it is a very unique setting.

I understand your position. I don't share it but I understand it.

Still I think the biggest problem isn't that they included it but that they included it badly. If they had included it in a long form book the reaction would have been much less. Mostly because as you say in a later post its easy to ignore. But when its one of six charms on a two or three page preview. It will get a lot more attention. Then add in some hysterics and the designers having generally horrible public relations practices then you have... well what happened.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;733985Now as for how it applies to Exalted 3 well the issues is that the designers didn't think through the previews well. Then they didn't write the previews well. The two acts collided and created a horrible mess. That ultimately blew up in their faces. I have a hard time feeling bad for them for it because its their own fault.

And now we're back at "why don't designers talk to the community more".

Quote from: Snowman0147;733993Yeah James said it best.  You should always leave that option out for sex.  I still stand on the issue that if you see something in the setting you don't like that doesn't mean you should force the developers to remove it either.  Just don't bother with it and never use it.

I don't think you even need to include it. It'll turn off groups that don't want sexual material, and won't go far enough for groups that do.

Put in the social influence skills, the mind control stuff, and leave the rest to the table, ie. if your game is more rapey than Vampire (A game about walking rape allegorys) then you've done it wrong.

If you're playing Conan, or any other game where the characters are just assumed to be doing plenty of shagging because they like it... again, why do you need rules? Maybe a stamina check at most, but "you spend the night fucking, fade to black. The next morning..." should do everything required.

Quote from: Ladybird;733999And now we're back at "why don't designers talk to the community more".

It really seems to be a bit of a theme with these designers and this project.

Its not all the ways the case of a groups that don't want sex getting turned off and groups that want thinking that it doesn't have enough. Many settings have levels of sexual content that are appropriate to their fans and groups that want less just ignore it. Or play a different game.

Some groups want more detail on sexuality that "You do it, fade to black" because its consequences and impact has more detail at your table or Hell, they just find it enjoyable, the same reason some people enjoy sex in their books, movies and television shows though it can be "fade to black". I mean, you can summarize violence in the same manner but few people do because its otherwise fun.

I really believe in freedom of choice. I have my preferences but they're not everyone's and demanding that they be the only option and everyone can either deal with it or not play seems really arrogant and unfair. That's what why SJW attitude annoys me not their particular band of opinion.

As for Exalted, well Creation is a place ruled by all too human demigods with vast power, resources and precious little accountability. Being of great passions and ability but with very human drives and needs. Just like real history there's going to be a fair amount of sex as both a positive and negative. Personally I think ignoring it would be whitewashing though that's probably not the right term for a completely fictional setting. It would feel conspicuous in its absence, like the setting was being sanitized for children. Again, IMO. One of the things I liked about Exalted was that it wasn't sanitized, the dark, disturbing and sexual were painted in vividly just as much as the heroic, powerful and glorious and with just many fantastic touches.

The whats "rapey" issue is at least somewhat subjective too There are some that feel that if a character of high social acumen, charisma and physical beauty can talk another healthy, sexually active but otherwise unattached person into having sex with them in a relatively short amount of time then that's "rapey" if that ability is summarized by skill rolls.

Anyone have any thoughts on the new Exalted types? Personally, I think they're overkill at this point. The game is jam packed with playable types some of which don't have firm niches of their own (Lunars). Adding more feel overcomplicating the setting and watering down the concept of Exalt. Particularly since one of the new ones seem to stretch the concept, IMO.

Quote from: Nexus;734034Anyone have any thoughts on the new Exalted types? Personally, I think they're overkill at this point. The game is jam packed with playable types some of which don't have firm niches of their own (Lunars). Adding more feel overcomplicating the setting and watering down the concept of Exalt. Particularly since one of the new ones seem to stretch the concept, IMO.

I feel there are already too many types as it is (what's the point in Infernals? Why do we need Alchemicals?), so I cannot see any value in adding yet more.

Too many exalted types.  What was wrong with just solars, abyssals, siderals, lunars, terrestirals, alchemicals, and infernals.  Given the fact that Holden was hell bent in making sure the yozis will never be free I am failing to see why we even need infernals.  I guess we need a true unrepenting villain to go along with the abyssals who can repent?  Still we shouldn't just be shoving in new exalted.

The charms that got people all up in arms were not just "let's have sex in the game".  They were magical attacks.  The sending of a seducing spirit in the form of a lost love or old flame to eat someone's soul.  There's huge potential here for interesting dramatic shit.  

The newer products related to White Wolf's games have also taken a menu approach.  Where you decide in advance what themes or elements are important to you and which are not.  So the whole approach of these games already includes taking some time to think about what you want and don't want in the game.

Quote from: Nexus;734034Anyone have any thoughts on the new Exalted types? Personally, I think they're overkill at this point. The game is jam packed with playable types some of which don't have firm niches of their own (Lunars). Adding more feel overcomplicating the setting and watering down the concept of Exalt. Particularly since one of the new ones seem to stretch the concept, IMO.

I'm just not sure what they are trying to accomplish with them. The Liminals seem to be death oriented exalts that are not Abyssals. If you want that why don't you just rewrite Abyssals? Your creating a new edition your allowed to make huge changes. Abyssals are damn hard to play in anyway as it is and even harder to play as non-loyalist. So why don't you rewrite them to make them work better as independents and call it a day?

Quote from: Kiero;734040I feel there are already too many types as it is (what's the point in Infernals? Why do we need Alchemicals?), so I cannot see any value in adding yet more.

There are a lot of options and I sometimes don't quite get them all but it seems that people like them. *Shrug* But I can't figure out how the new ones will cover new ground.

Quote from: Snowman0147;734060Too many exalted types.  What was wrong with just solars, abyssals, siderals, lunars, terrestirals, alchemicals, and infernals.  Given the fact that Holden was hell bent in making sure the yozis will never be free I am failing to see why we even need infernals.  I guess we need a true unrepenting villain to go along with the abyssals who can repent?  Still we shouldn't just be shoving in new exalted.

I don't get it either. If the Neverborn can destroy the world the Yozi should be able to escape. I kinda get the feeling Holden isn't a fan of the Infernals. Granted that book had huge nasty screaming issues. But there were some nifty ideas in it too.

*shrug* I really don't understand Holden's thinking on a lot of issues and he seems very reluctant to explain stuff. I kinda suspect he runs on the "it seems cool to me" and the "i dont like it" system. You know the one where they never explain shit beyond those two answers.

Hmmm the development team not communicating well again. Hmmm... The theme returns.

Quote from: Nexus;734034Anyone have any thoughts on the new Exalted types? Personally, I think they're overkill at this point. The game is jam packed with playable types some of which don't have firm niches of their own (Lunars). Adding more feel overcomplicating the setting and watering down the concept of Exalt. Particularly since one of the new ones seem to stretch the concept, IMO.

It was what most interested me in Exalted 3e when I was following it, with the map/setting changes being a very close second.

When I was following Exalted 3e last year, I was chomping at the bit to learn more about the new types. Sad for me(but for lucky for others), the first new Exalt type to get their hardcover will be the Exigents, whom I have very little interest in.

I don't see a place for the extra splats either, mainly due to the usual lack of hard info, with exceptions being made for Exigents which I think are rather awesome.  Infernals have no place at my table, and while the concept of Alchemicals is sound, since I can't see Autothon not making his own Chosen, their setting is more shit dark than Creation proper, and actually sending them into Creation makes everything worse all around.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;734145I don't see a place for the extra splats either, mainly due to the usual lack of hard info, with exceptions being made for Exigents which I think are rather awesome.  

I am the same. The Exigents, as an excuse for the GM to have a single cohesive set of antagonists that are easy to create and use, is pretty genius for Exalted IMO as it needs to give GMs all the help it can. The other new Exalted are of little interest to me.

I'm mainly hoping that Exigent splatbook will provide at least a skeletal charm design system and guidelines. Seems like it would almost have too since the "splat" is diverse. Expecting GMs to totally wing it or what wait for published material for what is such a potentially large and diverse group would suck. Or Exigents will just have a limited list of generic abilities where you can possibly shift the flavor text around. Which seems to be something they want to avoid.

Quote from: Nexus;734395I'm mainly hoping that Exigent splatbook will provide at least a skeletal charm design system and guidelines. Seems like it would almost have too since the "splat" is diverse. Expecting GMs to totally wing it or what wait for published material for what is such a potentially large and diverse group would suck. Or Exigents will just have a limited list of generic abilities where you can possibly shift the flavor text around. Which seems to be something they want to avoid.

One would hope. As it is, I can see more uses for them than the not-Prometheans and not-Siderials.