Quote from: Warboss Squee;837745Just wait till the book drops. Then we will really see the knives come out.

Hell, Lunars alone will cause a bigger shitstorm than Beast if the devs don't remove all those triggering mentions of non consenting breeding.

Yep, it will be a rough. As well it should be. That is a very sensitive subject and should be approached with caution and care. I'm not sure the current development team has the skills to handle it in a way that wont blow up in there face horribly.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;837748You've never trawled the old Palladium forums, or the pre-Pathfinder, Pathfinder forums.  Those were hotbeds of creator worship, right down to the creepy.

The Pathfinder boards are much better moderated now, so it's actually a pretty decent place now for all things PFRPG.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that you'll always find hotbeds of creator worship, of varying degrees.

I suppose so. What really bothers me is that Holden in particular really doesn't seem to get that there is a lot of hostility toward them due to there antics and late delivery. The leak in particular really did help elevate some of that.


Now like many of you the leak isn't anything I particularly care about. Its not the kinda game I want. But at least its something. It exists and is a thing. When you have become increasingly convinced that the whole thing is vaporware or a scam then anything is comforting.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759103-Exalted-3-Has-anything-gone-right&p=19127225#post19127225

Read the link. It should tell you how far out into lala land Holden is. Also it makes me really think Holden has a bit of a Martyr complex.

GMS continues to get flak for Far West, yet some of the folks doing that are the same folks giving the Exalted crew a free pass. Go figure.

Wow...way to go Holden in blaming everyone else but yourself. Asshat.
I still find it hilarious that they had a second leak. So first, after the first leak, going something like "see, this is why we do not like playtesting...or even open-development" .... riding along on their high horse after that and BAM ... second leak...now it has to come from very close...inner circle. Emberassing for them...now they can't blame any outside-party anymore (aka unkown playtester XY).

And now Holden goes on and more or less telling us that the game will be worse because they couldn't do more testing? Yeah right! Fuck off!

Truly the unholy coupling that grew out of RPGnet's Exalted fandom and in due time led to the overlap between WW/OP developers and RPGnet moderation has birthed the monster that is the Exalted 3 clusterfuck.

A festering, cancerous mess of fail nested inside the hopes of Exalted fandom and covered in a thin veneer of developer infallibility that would make the Pope envious.

I'm not one for RGnet schadenfreude threads but this one is a fascinating trainwreck.

Quote from: The Butcher;837789Truly the unholy coupling that grew out of RPGnet's Exalted fandom and in due time led to the overlap between WW/OP developers and RPGnet moderation has birthed the monster that is the Exalted 3 clusterfuck.

A festering, cancerous mess of fail nested inside the hopes of Exalted fandom and covered in a thin veneer of developer infallibility that would make the Pope envious.

I'm not one for RGnet schadenfreude threads but this one is a fascinating trainwreck.

This isn't a trainwreck.  This is an extinction level asteroid covered in tap dancing sharks.

It's Exalted, it's always got to be over the top.

Holy hell. Every time I think Holden couldn't possibly be a bigger asshat, he has to go and prove me wrong. And here I thought his behavior over Return of the Scarlet Empress was bad.

I'm actually okay with long combats if the session lasts 8+ hours. Unfortunately, I haven't gamed for that long in one go since college. If I tried to run Exalted 3E, the entire session would probably consist of a single combat.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;837806This isn't a trainwreck.  This is an extinction level asteroid covered in tap dancing sharks.

It's Exalted, it's always got to be over the top.

And we're stuck watching as it comes crashing on our faces...

You know something, I really don't get where the developers are coming from with the ultra-secrecy at all. If you want a quality product to come out of the process, the more open the playtesting, the more people get to see things, kick them and suggest improvements, the better the game will be.

I say this as a developer myself (on the M2TW mod, Europa Barbarorum II), I've found playtest feedback invaluable. The team there didn't quite have a secrecy mindset, but more a problem with consistent communication. And some people who didn't want things to be public until they were complete, which I think defeats the purpose of the whole development process.

I'd rather release something half-done, plastered with advisory warnings and a request that people try it and give their feedback, than have radio silence until suddenly you have another complete product to drop. Which may then need rapid patching to fix something that the small testing circle didn't spot.

It does seem to be a common thing though, people wanting to keep it to themselves. I'd rather the knowledge be out there so we can use it to manage expectations, instead of having wild rumours blowing about because there's no hard facts for anyone to sink their teeth into.

Plus, ultimately, I'm not afraid of being told I'm wrong, or re-doing something if a better way emerges.

Quote from: Kiero;837856You know something, I really don't get where the developers are coming from with the ultra-secrecy at all. If you want a quality product to come out of the process, the more open the playtesting, the more people get to see things, kick them and suggest improvements, the better the game will be.

I say this as a developer myself (on the M2TW mod, Europa Barbarorum II), I've found playtest feedback invaluable. The team there didn't quite have a secrecy mindset, but more a problem with consistent communication. And some people who didn't want things to be public until they were complete, which I think defeats the purpose of the whole development process.

I'd rather release something half-done, plastered with advisory warnings and a request that people try it and give their feedback, than have radio silence until suddenly you have another complete product to drop. Which may then need rapid patching to fix something that the small testing circle didn't spot.

It does seem to be a common thing though, people wanting to keep it to themselves. I'd rather the knowledge be out there so we can use it to manage expectations, instead of having wild rumours blowing about because there's no hard facts for anyone to sink their teeth into.

Plus, ultimately, I'm not afraid of being told I'm wrong, or re-doing something if a better way emerges.

I think its the later part of this that is the most important. They don't want negative feed back. They don't want to be told that something isn't working. They want praise and mild commentary. The problem is that the best work doesn't result from that. You need someone to be vicious to get the best results.

Then you take those vicious comments and see what you want to do with them. Do you need to take a different tactic, do you try a different approach, do you restart from scratch, or do you decide that you like what your doing and keep on with it.

I learned the benefit of vicious criticism in grad school. I had papers that came back and I swear to you I almost cried over them. But after the emotional reaction I thought about it and decided to take what was good and use it. Sometimes I ignored criticisms and sometimes I didn't. Both ways worked sometimes and didn't others.

Being a writer isn't fucking easy. Its a little soul crushing. But if you want make the best result you do it.

The Developers don't want to make the best game possible. They want to make the game that suits them. They want the game to reflect their desires and their desires alone. Screw people who disagree with them. Screw people who want something different. Your getting what the developers give you and you will like it, because we know better. Seems to be there attitude. That isn't a good developer attitude that's a bitchy fan boy attitude.

Maybe I'm just bitter.

Quote from: The Butcher;837789A festering, cancerous mess of fail

I'm gonna use that as a character description the next time I have to random roll up a PC for our DCC game.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;837667Here's the thing though.  The "Rule of Cool" needs, like everything else in a game, to be consistent, it also needs to be defined well enough to be used, rather than have it be a hand-wave.  The problem with the Story Teller system (or however they want to spell it this week) is that it's not even much of a system in that regard, relying primarily on fudging or the GM's good will.  And as I'm primarily a GM, I don't want my players to come to me with 'Mother May I?'  It insults them, whether they know it or not.

They've made their characters to model a certain thing, it should allow them TO be that 'thing'.

Of course that's just my opinion.

In other words, to qualify for The Rule of Cool, a thing should actually BE cool.

jg

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;837860The Developers don't want to make the best game possible. They want to make the game that suits them. They want the game to reflect their desires and their desires alone. Screw people who disagree with them. Screw people who want something different. Your getting what the developers give you and you will like it, because we know better. Seems to be there attitude. That isn't a good developer attitude that's a bitchy fan boy attitude.

Maybe I'm just bitter.

Your not bitter.  You just saw the light and man does the light show the truth.  Not always the thing you want to know, but the light always shine the truth.  If it wasn't for all those kickstarters and rabid fan base Exalted would had naturally failed due to its own massive amount of bullshit.

Seriously look at Scion 2.0 and the new edition of Trinity they are making.  You can see the difference in what they are doing at their own game.  You roll attribute + skill and try to get more successes in difficulty.  For scale the more powerful you are the lower the number you need to get in getting a success from that die.  The only thing a GM needs to do is adjust difficulty when the need arises.  My only complaint is the energy pool system, but even that is streamlined and easy to understand.

The devs of Exalted 3.0 do not give a shit about good gaming, the gamers who play their game, and they certainly don't care about the setting that was given to them.  If they did you wouldn't see this mess.  Sadly for you is that your a hundred percent right about those devs.

If my gaming group held me at gunpoint and made me run Exalted, I'd just run it off FATE. Your Exalted type is an Aspect, stunting and charms allow you to inflict appropriate temporary Aspects on targets, badaboom job done let's go.

I cannot imagine anyone wanting the sort of game Exalted wants to be - high-powered pulp adventure with larger-than-life characters and amazing superpowers - being dissatisfied with a semicompetent FATE translation of the game, because that's the sort of thing which sits squarely within FATE's bailiwick. I also can't imagine them seriously deriving any enjoyment out of the clunky mass which is the Exalted system the 3rd edition promises to be, with its unreconstructed Storyteller basis and its morass of Charms, unless they're the sort of gamer who'd rather read long list of powers by themselves rather than actually play a game at the gaming table.

The Ex3 combat has been compared to D and D 4th edition combat and several of those that really like it have said they're fans of D and 4th edition. Maybe that's the target audience.

Quote from: Nexus;837954The Ex3 combat has been compared to D and D 4th edition combat and several of those that really like it have said they're fans of D and 4th edition. Maybe that's the target audience.

I liked D&D4 and the combats were long but relatively straight forward. Exatled 3 has long combats (I assume, I cant figure out how they could be fast) and isn't relatively straight forward.

The straight forward part is important.