Quote from: Nexus;837508Well, that was quick....

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759339-Jon-Chung-Exalted-Topic-Ban&p=19122396#post19122396

Talk about eating their own.

Quote from: The Butcher;837522Talk about eating their own.

Not much surprise if you've studied how most revolutionary movements work.

JG

Quote from: The Butcher;837522Talk about eating their own.

Its the traditional new edition heretic purge.

Quote from: Nexus;837508Well, that was quick....

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759339-Jon-Chung-Exalted-Topic-Ban&p=19122396#post19122396

I saw that and sighed. They're obviously not interested in any sort of rigorous analysis of all the cruft they're generating. Rule of Cool is all that matters, it seems.

Quote from: Kiero;837623I saw that and sighed. They're obviously not interested in any sort of rigorous analysis of all the cruft they're generating. Rule of Cool is all that matters, it seems.

Here's the thing though.  The "Rule of Cool" needs, like everything else in a game, to be consistent, it also needs to be defined well enough to be used, rather than have it be a hand-wave.  The problem with the Story Teller system (or however they want to spell it this week) is that it's not even much of a system in that regard, relying primarily on fudging or the GM's good will.  And as I'm primarily a GM, I don't want my players to come to me with 'Mother May I?'  It insults them, whether they know it or not.

They've made their characters to model a certain thing, it should allow them TO be that 'thing'.

Of course that's just my opinion.

Wow, that "has anything gone right" thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. The apologetic-crew is in full force again. All is purple and happy... *shakes head*

Let us keep the reality and hate alive, please

Quote from: Anglachel;837680Wow, that "has anything gone right" thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. The apologetic-crew is in full force again. All is purple and happy... *shakes head*

Let us keep the reality and hate alive, please

I just do not get the intensity and dedication of Exalted fandom. It seems to above and beyond the typical gamer tendency for creator worship. Its a fun idea but at the end of the day its just an rpg. Some people seem to almost treat it like a religion where the figurative high priests can do no wrong and any failures are the fault of the followers or their lack of faith.

Quote from: Anglachel;837680Wow, that "has anything gone right" thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. The apologetic-crew is in full force again. All is purple and happy... *shakes head*

Let us keep the reality and hate alive, please

There are some really hard core apologists Exalted fan boys and girls out there. Its really bizarre to me that you cant even mildly discuss the failings of the developers without someone jumping to there defense.

The leak actually seems to have done a ton of good press for the developers but they are bitching about it. There fan boys are agreeing. They really don't seem to understand that there are backers, fans, and customers that exist outside their bubble. Or maybe they assume that the people inside their bubble and outside are exactly the same. Which is a different but equally dangerous assumption.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;837743There are some really hard core apologists Exalted fan boys and girls out there. Its really bizarre to me that you cant even mildly discuss the failings of the developers without someone jumping to there defense.

The leak actually seems to have done a ton of good press for the developers but they are bitching about it. There fan boys are agreeing. They really don't seem to understand that there are backers, fans, and customers that exist outside their bubble. Or maybe they assume that the people inside their bubble and outside are exactly the same. Which is a different but equally dangerous assumption.

Just wait till the book drops. Then we will really see the knives come out.

Hell, Lunars alone will cause a bigger shitstorm than Beast if the devs don't remove all those triggering mentions of non consenting breeding.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;837743There are some really hard core apologists Exalted fan boys and girls out there. Its really bizarre to me that you cant even mildly discuss the failings of the developers without someone jumping to there defense.

You've never trawled the old Palladium forums, or the pre-Pathfinder, Pathfinder forums.  Those were hotbeds of creator worship, right down to the creepy.

The Pathfinder boards are much better moderated now, so it's actually a pretty decent place now for all things PFRPG.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that you'll always find hotbeds of creator worship, of varying degrees.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;837748You've never trawled the old Palladium forums, or the pre-Pathfinder, Pathfinder forums.  Those were hotbeds of creator worship, right down to the creepy.

The Pathfinder boards are much better moderated now, so it's actually a pretty decent place now for all things PFRPG.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that you'll always find hotbeds of creator worship, of varying degrees.

It does seem to be a thing with gamer culture. But I will some games and lines seem to generate more of it than others. IMO, its the games that cultivate a sense of elitism in their fanbase they have the more zealous followers. It becomes an ego and identity issue.

My "problem" with it all is this - the renewed "trust" in the Devs that seems to sprout (especially on rpg.net, where any critic is almost immediately shouted down or even red-texted) from the positivity gained from the leak....and i don't get it. The stuff presented in the leak is...really really not that good. I don't see what all the gushing is about. Some stuff is quite ok (sorcerous workings seems neat) but overall it is not really that different from what we have seen in 1st and 2nd Ed....and we know how that turned out.

On top of that, the new "reasons" the Dev team gives for why the game is so late are ridiculous ... something like "we are the first that do a game this way, and therefore we needed to reboot and build from the ground up" or something to that effect (and they are mostly talking about their "new" momentum mechanic...as if that is something new and all that complicated :rolleyes: ).

It will be interesting to see how long it will take for the majority of Ex3e gamers to realize that this new version is as slow and tedious in play as the two earlier editions were. Because the fancy wears off real fast in play (especially with that oh so inventive "new" pacing for combat).
And then all the lamenting will begin again. But this time, i will have no pitty for them whatsoever. Maybe if you fanboy-fucks would have stopped "protecting" your Devs, they would have finally seen that change is needed. But as long as you support them to the bitter end....no wonder nothing is changing.

Quote from: Anglachel;837769My "problem" with it all is this - the renewed "trust" in the Devs that seems to sprout (especially on rpg.net, where any critic is almost immediately shouted down or even red-texted) from the positivity gained from the leak....and i don't get it. The stuff presented in the leak is...really really not that good. I don't see what all the gushing is about. Some stuff is quite ok (sorcerous workings seems neat) but overall it is not really that different from what we have seen in 1st and 2nd Ed....and we know how that turned out.

On top of that, the new "reasons" the Dev team gives for why the game is so late are ridiculous ... something like "we are the first that do a game this way, and therefore we needed to reboot and build from the ground up" or something to that effect (and they are mostly talking about their "new" momentum mechanic...as if that is something new and all that complicated :rolleyes: ).

It will be interesting to see how long it will take for the majority of Ex3e gamers to realize that this new version is as slow and tedious in play as the two earlier editions were. Because the fancy wears off real fast in play (especially with that oh so inventive "new" pacing for combat).
And then all the lamenting will begin again. But this time, i will have no pitty for them whatsoever. Maybe if you fanboy-fucks would have stopped "protecting" your Devs, they would have finally seen that change is needed. But as long as you support them to the bitter end....no wonder nothing is changing.

I'm in the same boat. It seems okay and functional but I'm not getting "ONG! Its hot buttered awesome that everyone will love!!!!111111" is coming from. I'm just really outside the target audience I guess. Running the combat system with multiple characters seems like it will be a P.I.A.

Quote from: Nexus;837771Running the combat system with multiple characters seems like it will be a P.I.A.

Yeah - that's where I am and I mentioned it on that thread and got told (by a non-developer) that it wasn't supposed to be fast, but fun.  I hate "fun but slow" systems because they never are fun.  I don't want 3 hour combats between my PCs and like 3 NPCs.  The mechanics do sound kinda interesting, but I don't think they fixed the core issue with Exalted which was it was too heavy a system.  I think Holden is just doubling down on that criticism.  I'm expecting another side-step system like ex2 was.  Still about the same "fun" just with a different set of rules and the same ridiculous handling time.

Quote from: Obeeron;837776Yeah - that's where I am and I mentioned it on that thread and got told (by a non-developer) that it wasn't supposed to be fast, but fun.  I hate "fun but slow" systems because they never are fun.  I don't want 3 hour combats between my PCs and like 3 NPCs.  The mechanics do sound kinda interesting, but I don't think they fixed the core issue with Exalted which was it was too heavy a system.  I think Holden is just doubling down on that criticism.  I'm expecting another side-step system like ex2 was.  Still about the same "fun" just with a different set of rules and the same ridiculous handling time.

I agree, slow is not fun, no matter how interesting the things you might be doing in that time are. This was the issue my group had with D&D4e. Combat was fun, but it took so long. Even a simple/short combat took over an hour, and if it involved lots of moving parts, it could easily eat an entire session.

By contrast a combat in 13th Age or ACKS is done in under half an hour.