Quote from: Marvelous_Metal_Man;827160I gave up after I got halfway through the charms section.  3e just isn't worth the effort.  Sure there are some good bits like Sorcery, but on a whole, it's just a mediocre repackaging of 1e with all its faults and failings.  I say grab the handful of good concepts 3e presents and trash the rest.

You got further than I did, FWIW.

Quote from: Nexus;827163The fanbase seems to border on the obsessive but they're also divisive as Hell. Everyone has their own personal vision of "true Exalted" and is rabid about defending it against all comers. Each edition has allowed another group to reach ascendency and becomes the Council of Truth that decides what the game is "really" about and purge the heretics. Until that vision falls fro, popularity or the rule set fails them then them the whole mess starts all over again.

True it definitely goes through cycles of different fanatics running the agenda. I don't know but it feels like the current developers don't have a clue on what they're doing. I really liked the original premise of the game back in the day and my group and I played the hell out of the 1st ed but now everything has been diluted and gone through so many crappy iterations that my interest has waned. The double standards of the developers and their own fantasy hasn't helped much either.

Quote from: tuypo1;827026im pretty sure you said that eariler in the thread the first time it was a nice reminder of how great this place is now you just come across as look at me im so great

If I said it before, it's just that I forgot I posted something along those lines already. I didn't mean to be repetitive.

Quote from: Kapten;189679391) If a solar has zero combat charms, how capable is he if he gets attacked by mortals? Would he need to fear, say, two regular guardsmen? The same really goes for a solar with no social defenses, would he be in danger if he starts talking with a socially focused dragonblood?

2) How dangerous is the non- wyld hunt world to a newly exalted solar? How many of them dies due to mortals/fair folk/low grade gods etc?

I ask because I found the invincible solars of the previous games to be frustrating as GM. If it would be possible to challenge new solars without bringing every exalt in a given direction within reach of the PCs that would make me happy .

It never ceases to amaze me how often the question/concern I hear about Exalted is: Why is it so hared to threaten epic demigods with Creation's rank and file? Its too challenging to have them face threats on their level! The Champions of the Gods should be constantly in fear for their lives!

But again I have to wonder where these "invincible starting Solars" were coming from in the first place. Unless you optimized the Hell out of a starting character (which meant they all pretty much looked alike), starting Solars (somewhat experienced ones for that matter) were far from "invincible".

Yeah, that's the fluff-mechanics disconnect that is so (in)famous. Starting Solar do not live up to the promises made in many an advertisement speech about Exalted.

On the other hand, if Exalted are like mortals just with the skill to manipulate Essence, then i think it is totally ok if an Exalt who has not invested in any combat charms is in danger when he faces two or more trained soldiers. Because beside his ability to manipulate Essence, he IS mortal (his maximum in any Attributes and Skills is no higher than for any mortal, so ... ).

And just to be clear, i'm talking heroic mortals (because any candidate for an exaltation is at least a heroic mortal). A peasant from the field is not the same as a trained (heroic) mortal soldier.

Am I like the only person who looks at Kapten's post and wonder if there's a deeper issue here?  It sounds to me like he's afraid of letting his/her players be.

I look at that post and wonder if there's something he's afraid of, would a Solar with any charms break his plan?  If so, maybe he should look into trying to improvise a little.

Or is it because he has a player that's an utter jerk and will do their best to ruin a campaign?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;829390Am I like the only person who looks at Kapten's post and wonder if there's a deeper issue here?  It sounds to me like he's afraid of letting his/her players be.

I look at that post and wonder if there's something he's afraid of, would a Solar with any charms break his plan?  If so, maybe he should look into trying to improvise a little.

Or is it because he has a player that's an utter jerk and will do their best to ruin a campaign?

Very well could be. I used his post more of an example of an attitude I've seen from Exalted GM/Players as a whole. And that whole "Invincible Solars" meme that got started when I and any other real life Exalted players I've known have never run into it. In the theoretical land of unlimited experience and constant optimization (with rules that were broken...) maybe but in actual Solars didn't even live up to their narrative hype let alone invincibility.

Quote from: Nexus;829426Very well could be. I used his post more of an example of an attitude I've seen from Exalted GM/Players as a whole. And that whole "Invincible Solars" meme that got started when I and any other real life Exalted players I've known have never run into it. In the theoretical land of unlimited experience and constant optimization (with rules that were broken...) maybe but in actual Solars didn't even live up to their narrative hype let alone invincibility.

And I've found this argument to point to the same problem, GM's not trusting their players, and trying to blame the system (such as it isn't) for it.

That's not saying that Exalted is even a decent system (Never have I ever found a system that so actively hates the GM...) but that all these complaints seem to point to that these posters are so afraid of ultimate power corrupting their own friends.  Or some such nonsense.

so any news on a release date yet

Quote from: tuypo1;829543so any news on a release date yet

Last I heard it was probably going to be at least a couple of more months. Something about new art coming in and an additional chapter. I suspect that last might be due to the leak at least in part, making the sure the purchase copies having something new besides the art.

makes sense

Quote from: Christopher Brady;829539That's not saying that Exalted is even a decent system (Never have I ever found a system that so actively hates the GM...)

And I've run AD&D.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;829685And I've run AD&D.

JG

My first game, which I was a DM (Actually I DM'ed before being a player) was AD&D 2e, which most of the rules aren't even hard set, they're mostly meant to be used as options.  Three separate initiative systems that you're meant to pick one and use, two separate 'skill' systems, and that's just in the core book.  If you add the various handbooks (I was a fan of the Fighter's) and then the Options stuff, you get a mishmash of conflicting systems.

But the difference between my experience of 2e and Exalted any edition, is that in 2e you can pick and choose what you want to use.  Whereas in Exalted the GM has to know his players, if they're typical WW fans, they'll be totally OK with handwaving, meaning most of the books are extra weight if you have to lug them around.

If your players are into making system compatible characters (and no, I do NOT mean power gamers or munchkins, but rather players who want their choices to just matter) then the GM is forced to memorize every single charm that the Players have access to, and then they have to memorize every charm that his antagonists have.

It's rough enough for an all Solars team, who may face off Abyssals, Terrestrials and maybe Sidereals.  But if they're a multi-Exalt crew?  You now have to know all the charms, and how they interact with each other.  And heaven forfend if you have an Eclipse Solar, who can learn any Charm in the game.  The mess that will create is just...

Frankly, I ain't buying  that the final product differs "significantly" or at least that it did before now. When the second leak happened there were allot of hackle raised over it being release early and it ruining the final result aside from the art.

Now the final product differs significantly.

I mean it might now and that would explain the additional lengthy delays but something smells.

But Hell. if it got them to clean some more stuff up before release maybe its a good thing over all.

Well, that was quick....

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759339-Jon-Chung-Exalted-Topic-Ban&p=19122396#post19122396