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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Sacrosanct on August 23, 2012, 05:06:11 PM

Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Sacrosanct on August 23, 2012, 05:06:11 PM
Below are images from each version of D&D.  Which do you prefer.  I imagine most will be for nostalgia, which is ok.  After all, my first description of a kobold and image before I knew what they were was the most captivating.

AD&D 1:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/14/D%26DKobold.JPG/200px-D%26DKobold.JPG)


AD&D 2e:
(http://dedpihto.narod.ru/games/Monsters1/kobold.gif)

3e:
(http://metagamed.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/kobold.jpg)

4e (I think this is 4e):
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z21WUr1eMr4/T1r4zUTZG3I/AAAAAAAABQU/hCN6Kz5Ahv4/s1600/a780_1.jpg)
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Sacrosanct on August 23, 2012, 05:07:47 PM
For me, I prefer 1e.  Kobolds were always "dog faced", just like orcs were pig-faced.  Later editions made them more reptilian instead of dog, so they never really clicked.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: beeber on August 23, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
grew up with the 1e/moldvay basic version, but actually like the 3e redesign more.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: The Bronze Falcon on August 23, 2012, 05:48:09 PM
The picture for 4th Edition is actually from 3rd Edition, perhaps the Races of the Dragon book, though I'm not sure.  It might've been used for 4th Edition too, since some art was re-used.

Anyway...

Normally I'd say the original OD&D/AD&D Kobold is my preference, though I do rather like that picture from 2nd Edition.  It might just be the art style, but it hits the right spot for me.  Expressive, odd and definitely not human, while not just being a little dragon like Kobolds eventually became for some reason.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Skywalker on August 23, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Of those pictures, the 4e one appeals to me more. I still often visualise them as dog faced though.

The reptilian change didn't really appeal to me in concept until D&D started utilising this to give them a relationship with other reptilian critters, such as Dragons, for good effect.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Skywalker on August 23, 2012, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: The Bronze Falcon;575897Normally I'd say the original OD&D/AD&D Kobold is my preference, though I do rather like that picture from 2nd Edition.  It might just be the art style, but it hits the right spot for me.  Expressive, odd and definitely not human, while not just being a little dragon like Kobolds eventually became for some reason.

Tony DiTerlizzi certainly manages to give them a Jim Henson Labyrinth vibe in that picture, which is cool.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Justin Alexander on August 23, 2012, 06:03:31 PM
Quote from: The Bronze Falcon;575897The picture for 4th Edition is actually from 3rd Edition, perhaps the Races of the Dragon book, though I'm not sure.  It might've been used for 4th Edition too, since some art was re-used.

It was used in the 4E Monster Manual entry for kobolds.

Quote from: beeber;575893grew up with the 1e/moldvay basic version, but actually like the 3e redesign more.

Ditto for me. I loved the little dog-faced freaks during my early days, but when I came back to D&D with 3rd Edition the pint-sized reptilians completely clicked for me.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Sacrosanct on August 23, 2012, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;575901Tony DiTerlizzi certainly manages to give them a Jim Henson Labyrinth vibe in that picture, which is cool.

I know it's sacrilege to a lot of folks, but I don't really like Tony D's work in D&D.  Great children's illustrator, but not what I wanted in D&D.  None of the monsters looked scary.  They all looked like something you'd see in a toy or doll.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Opaopajr on August 23, 2012, 06:12:22 PM
2e, by far. 1e is second. Something about cunning canid-esque humanoids using murderholes and skirmish guerrilla tactics to take down larger threats to their domain. That and how can you not love the devious nature of using a scorpion on a fishing pole?! Now that's just plain lovable ornery evil. "Go attack the human wrapped in metal? No! You attack him!" "I got a better idea, let's drop a scorpion inside his metal wrap as he walk by our tunnels!" Like a second race of evil kindergartners.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Skywalker on August 23, 2012, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;575909I know it's sacrilege to a lot of folks, but I don't really like Tony D's work in D&D.  Great children's illustrator, but not what I wanted in D&D.  None of the monsters looked scary.  They all looked like something you'd see in a toy or doll.

I think this Kobold is a good example of that. The 2e picture is cool in its own way, but its not my favourite of the samples pretty much for the reasons you state.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: jeff37923 on August 23, 2012, 06:22:14 PM
Imagewise, I'm indifferent.

However, I like the Ecology of the Kobold written by Paizo for Dragon magazine and the Kobold entry for Gods of the Humanoids written by James Bond in a much earlier Dragon. I'm more tuned into the fluff of teh monster than the picture on this one.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: RandallS on August 23, 2012, 06:25:40 PM
The 1e version.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Doom on August 23, 2012, 06:41:28 PM
They all have their charms, but making them reptilian was a good example of how new stuff can be cool.

Still, I rather wish there was an electric blue race of the things.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: J Arcane on August 23, 2012, 07:11:25 PM
I prefer the Kobolds Ate My Baby version.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: jeff37923 on August 23, 2012, 07:18:45 PM
Quote from: J Arcane;575930I prefer the Kobolds Ate My Baby version.

Kovalic Kobolds are awesome....
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Silverlion on August 23, 2012, 07:20:15 PM
I always preferred 1E "dog face" kobolds, as opposed to reptilian Chihuahuas
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: mcbobbo on August 23, 2012, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: beeber;575893grew up with the 1e/moldvay basic version, but actually like the 3e redesign more.

This, but I always kept the dog-like behaviors, like the yipping.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Kuroth on August 23, 2012, 08:56:08 PM
While I might have once said AD&D 1, I have run campaigns with the 4th edition thralls of dragons to very great effect, with the whole aspect that they worship living creatures, dragons, as the embodiments of their gods.  It adds a component to dragons too.  I was very pleased with the whole scheme in 4th edition for these creatures.

Even Gygax had different ideas of how to interpret these creatures, depending upon the campaign.  The Kobolds in Lejendary Adventures are VERY different from the D&D versions.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: beeber on August 24, 2012, 01:01:00 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo;575960This, but I always kept the dog-like behaviors, like the yipping.

yeah, make it a little more like the chirping of the velociraptors in jurassic park, and instant player freakout, heh heh
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: RPGPundit on August 25, 2012, 02:11:23 PM
I like them as little dogmen.

RPGPundit
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: talysman on August 25, 2012, 03:56:19 PM
I like them as just another variety of goblin (OD&D version.) Not exciting visually, but why can't you vary humanoids culturally instead of stat-wise?
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: VectorSigma on August 25, 2012, 04:12:21 PM
I have always preferred dog-kobolds to lizard-kobolds, although I do like some of the latter-day lizard-kobold artwork.

In my campaign, kobolds are reskinned as no-apologies dog-men.

http://wampuscountry.blogspot.com/2012/07/its-dogs-life.html
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: The Butcher on August 25, 2012, 04:22:25 PM
Big fan of kobolds as hairless little dog-men and Tony DiTerlizzi's illo.

Quote from: J Arcane;575930I prefer the Kobolds Ate My Baby version.

All hail King Torg!
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: AClockworkMelon on August 25, 2012, 09:45:32 PM
I'm fond of the 3e look, but that's the version I grew up with.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: David Johansen on August 25, 2012, 10:01:13 PM
I view them as little balls of combat hell.  Fast, agile, and vicious.  Think Yoda in Attack of the Clones only it's not because he's a Jedi it's because he's a Kobold.

But then I was young when I read "Magic Kingdom For Sale: Sold" wherein two Kobolds are enough to give a big dragon second thoughts.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Dan Davenport on August 26, 2012, 01:28:25 AM
If I remember correctly, the 1e kobold was one of many creatures modeled on a collection of cheap plastic Japanese monster toys.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Elfdart on September 03, 2012, 07:17:59 AM
My idea of what orcs, goblins and kobolds look like comes from the A-series modules, which were illustrated by Willingham, Roslof and Dee (the kobold is in the middle row on the right):

(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n87/Elfdart/Humanoids.jpg)

I prefer to think of kobolds (little red guy on the right) as little goblins with vestigial tails. Here's a pic by Roslof from the trading card set:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lpL870wV2A4/SFF9hkMlcnI/AAAAAAAACD4/7EvH1sObK_c/s400/roslof.png)
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Ronin on September 03, 2012, 12:09:56 PM
I like the 3e version, with the 2e a close second. Lizard, dog their both neat in their own respects.
Title: Evolution of the Kobold, which do you prefer
Post by: Ronin on September 03, 2012, 12:12:58 PM
Quote from: Doom;575917They all have their charms, but making them reptilian was a good example of how new stuff can be cool.

Still, I rather wish there was an electric blue race of the things.

So why not make one? Its not like you have to restat them. Course you could give them some electro, or speed power. To throw a curve ball at your players. "Oh, its just a bunch of blue colored kobolds." to "Oh Shit! Its a bunch of blue kobolds!"