Quote from: David R;481656I don't know who this B.T. is and before I start something, can someone tell me if this is some kind of new act around here ?

As Pseudo says, we've had a few right-wing cocksmocks drag their flabby booze-and-smoke weakened carcasses into the place lately. Girls have cooties, no gays in my game, what about White Pride, don't call me a teabagger even though I do ZOMG that's just like calling them niggers, us poor oppressed middle class white christian males, and all this sort of shit.

It's simply one of the unintended consequences of presenting therpgsite as a refuge from rpg.net. On rpg.net, leftwing cocksmocks are nurtured, and rightwing cocksmocks driven out. So where else are they going to go?

The genuinely racist fruitloops do eventually get banned here, along with the paedophiles. But simply being a run-of-the-mill cocksmock of whatever political persuasion, you're given all the rhetorical rope you need to hang yourself with.

So let 'er rip, David. I wouldn't bother with any sophisticated arguments or rhetoric, though, it'd too far above these guys. Mix some plain old mockery and abuse in there, it's more than they deserve but there you go. Of course up to you.

Quote from: jibbajibba;481665I find myself agreeing with much of David R's games examples and the like.

Somethign that occurs to me about evil is that is you remove the choice then is it realy evil?

Is a being that is irredeemibly evil ie is incapable of not doign evil really evil. The examples of the Aliens is a great one. The Aliens are not evil but like a virus they kill what they meet as part of their basic instint and life-cycle.
They are not evil because they are not making a conscious choice to do 'evil' they simply follow their instinct. If you stick a polar bear in a room full of kids it will probably kill all the little kids, does that make it evil? If you stick a man with a big knife in the room and he kills all the little kids is he morally equivalent to the bear ? (clue no of course not )

So if you make a whole culture irremedibly evil are they actually evil at all?
For me creatures that choose to be evil are far more interesting and to be honest, if they can't choose I find it hard to class them as evil.

You're welcome to wring your hands all you want about whether they're "really evil" or whatever the fuck.

I'm going to go get the flamethrower and prevent them from laying eggs in my face.

Quote from: jibbajibba;481665So if you make a whole culture irremedibly evil are they actually evil at all?

Not really. But from the point of view of adventurers it's the same, because you still have to kill every last motherfucking one of them.

When you start saying, "they're not truly evil because they have no choice," that's where trouble comes in, because then you start giving people orders to bring samples back to the lab for study, then they escape on the ship and make it crash-land on a prison planet where the thing goes on to butcher everyone horribly. Or something.

Quote from: jibbajibba;481665Somethign that occurs to me about evil is that is you remove the choice then is it realy evil?

In my opinion, yes. The Alien is evil, the polar bear is evil, and the guy who put the polar bear in the room is really evil. I consider anything which causes suffering to be an evil. Adding an element of choice to it makes it into a worse evil, since the creation of suffering might have been a chosen from an offering that included no or less suffering. The action to the bear and to the man with a knife would be about the same: remove them from the situation and make sure they cannot continue their activity.

Quote from: David R;481656before I start something,

Ah, go ahead, let him have it.

Quote from: jibbajibba;481665Is a being that is irredeemibly evil ie is incapable of not doign evil really evil.

If it has no intelligence and just kills for survival, then no.  If it kills when it doesn't have to, or enjoys murder, rape, torture, then yeah it's evil, even if it's just following its nature and there is no real choice.  Pity it if you have to, but kill it nonetheless.

Quote from: B.T.;481655Wow, you suck.  Everything he said was true and he got permabanned because facts and reality are inconvenient truths for egalitarians.  All praise be to the liberal hivemind.

I guarantee that the majority of posters on Tangency are middle class white suburbanites because those are the only people afflicted with such a degree of white guilt.

Non-whites taking pride in their ethnic heritage = a positive, uplifting experience that should be encouraged by society and the government.  Whites discussing their ethnic heritage in a way that isn't self-flagellating Marxist hogwash = OBVIOUS RACISM BAN HIM NOW.

I am no fan of tangency, but the guy's remarks seemed pretty racist to me.

Quote from: J Arcane;481668You're welcome to wring your hands all you want about whether they're "really evil" or whatever the fuck.

I'm going to go get the flamethrower and prevent them from laying eggs in my face.

Techically I think they lay their eggs in your esophagus

Quotebut the guy's remarks seemed pretty racist to me.

That is because you have been systematically manipulated by the managerial state into perceiving reality as offensive.

Quote from: two_fishes;481670In my opinion, yes. The Alien is evil, the polar bear is evil, and the guy who put the polar bear in the room is really evil. I consider anything which causes suffering to be an evil. Adding an element of choice to it makes it into a worse evil, since the creation of suffering might have been a chosen from an offering that included no or less suffering. The action to the bear and to the man with a knife would be about the same: remove them from the situation and make sure they cannot continue their activity.

The converse argument I expected to see was that you would eliminate something that mindlessly set out to kill you, a virus, an angry polar bear or a race of parasitic aliens.
Is killing a virus evil?
Whilst killing the polar bear while it attacks you is fine, would hunting down all the polars becuase they might hurt decent folks be evil?
Is wiping out the aliens evil ? Can we judge an alien race as so similar to a virus that killing them has no moral consequence.
Reminds me of my earlier post when I pointed out Dr Who's reluctance to commit geocide and kill the Daleks even though it would prevent billions of innocent deaths.

I find the argument that you need irredeemily evil races so the paladins can charge around killing stuff without having to worry about morality really quite strange by the way. If you want to run round killing stuff with no moral compunction there are literally hundreds of options. Surely the POINT of playing a paladin is that you are trying to uphold your morality in the face of various temptations and the temptation to wreak furious vengeance is just one of those and in fact in a game where greed, lust, and the rest are very intangible surely the reluctance to give in to that desire, the only one that is actually palpable to the Player as well as the PC (in as much as the player wanting to roll some dice and lay down some law and order is much more real than the PC being tempted by a comely female or a heafty bribe) is kind of a key to the class....

Quote from: B.T.;481678That is because you have been systematically manipulated by the managerial state into perceiving reality as offensive.

So you're the political Ron Edwards?

"If people agree with me, they are right and sensible, and this proves I am correct; if people disagree with me, their brains have been damaged by their experiences, they are wrong and stupid, and this proves I am correct."

That kind of argument works on Stormfront, the Forge or Tangency, not here.

Quote from: B.T.;481678That is because you have been systematically manipulated by the managerial state into perceiving reality as offensive.

Nope

Quote from: B.T.;481678That is because you have been systematically manipulated by the managerial state into perceiving reality as offensive.

Not really you stupid racist fuck. The reality you refer to is confined to what glows of your computer screen in the basement of your mother's house while you type with one hand. Let be me very clear. Every thread you start, every thread you participate in, I'll be there to remind everyone that you are a stupid racist fuck. I'll scan threads which I have absolutely no interest in just to see if you posted and if I find one, I remind people that you are a stupid racist fuck.

QuoteLook at the world around you and look at patents and inventions and  designs and all that . Until recently almost all of it was done by White  Men. The rest of the world is contributing in more recent years but its  still true. Modernity was designed built largely by White Men and while  other groups participated if they had not, it would not have mattered a  huge deal.                 

0/10

This zero brought to you by Araby.

Quote from: J Arcane;481668You're welcome to wring your hands all you want about whether they're "really evil" or whatever the fuck.

Well, I mean there was no hand wringing on my part. I thought I'd just elaborate a bit on why I think you can kill stuff and not worry about them being evil or your actions heroic instead of pragmatic.

Back when I was a kid we sometimes discussed Robert Graves around the dinner table. My mum's favourite was this bit - “Kill if you must, but never hate: Man is but grass and hate is blight, The sun will scorch you soon or late, Die wholesome then, since you must fight”.

I said, see mum, even Graves says killing is good. I got a lot of "oh, dear(s)" when I was growing up.

Regards,
David R