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Everything wrong with Call of Cthulhu

Started by Erik Boielle, August 21, 2007, 10:02:09 PM

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Erik Boielle

#45
August 22, 2007, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: jrientsI keep hearing about these kinds of artsy fartsy players.

I was one. The Yog guys are others.

Hey - I fell for the hype and tried to live by other peoples propaganda.

To an extent this is why I hate the online posing so much - its caused me unending grief.
Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

Nicephorus

#46
August 22, 2007, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: jrientsI keep hearing about these kinds of artsy fartsy players.

I've never really seen them either. When we've run with normal characters (as opposed to military or similar along the lines of Delta Green), it was either as a horror game - they'd get in over their heads in bizaare circumstances and many or most of them would die, or as make-do adventurers, where the mousy art dealer starts packing heat and learns to cast spells.  In the latter case, we'd often try to solve things without a great deal of combat.  But we'd break into places, steal things, travel to find clues, and get in fights when appropriate.
 
From Erik's description, the podcast group sounds very unusual, weak and useless characters being ineffectual but surviving due to gm fiat.

The Good Assyrian

#47
August 22, 2007, 11:59:22 AM
Quote from: Erik BoielleI was one. The Yog guys are others.

Hey - I fell for the hype and tried to live by other peoples propaganda.

Then, frankly, it sounds like a personal problem to me.  

I have played a lot of CoC and never ran into the problem that you described.  There was always an abundance of Great War veterans with guns around in my playing group. And like Jeff I have played a fair bit of CoC at conventions and never really seen that attitude either, so I gotta wonder whether it is the artsy fartsy mode of play that is the aberration here...  


TGA
 

Drew

#48
August 22, 2007, 12:03:29 PM
I'm just surprised no one has mentioned Cthulhutech yet... :D
 

obryn

#49
August 22, 2007, 12:07:03 PM
Quote from: Erik BoielleI was one. The Yog guys are others.

Hey - I fell for the hype and tried to live by other peoples propaganda.

To an extent this is why I hate the online posing so much - its caused me unending grief.
Wait - I thought this was about the problems with CoC.  Now we find out it's about your problems with the CoC groups you played with and/or listened to podcasts about.

But hey - keep moving those goalposts!

-O
 

Erik Boielle

#50
August 22, 2007, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: obrynNow we find out it's about your problems with the CoC groups you played with and/or listened to podcasts about.

Well, CoC as played by me and my groups yes. Is that an issue?

(And you had a a motorcycle-riding, sword-carrying, modern knight-templar wannabe?

What a total munchkin. Thats so not lovecraftian. Wouldn't you have been happier with DnD? Was he called Neo, perhaps?

:-) )
Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

flyingmice

#51
August 22, 2007, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: Erik BoielleWell, in part because of the massivly unhealthy culture surrounding CoC, its almost a status game about who can have the most inappropriate/useless/'normal' character.

So much as looking at a Tommy Gun, for instance, marks you as a hated munchkin who should be playing DnD. Hell, playing someone who can do more than wonder around saying 'Not another boring library' marks you out as a hated munchkin.

Complicating this is that the magician, for instance, is played by the GMs wife who doesn't really have much interest in combat. Which is fine, but they need to either start playing by scoobie do rules (and stop having heavily armed murderous cultists wondering around (at least ones that arn't played for comic relief)) or they need adventures that are actually intended for normal people instead of a bloody swat team.

Hmmm - I've been playing and (more often) running CoC since the dinosaurs died out, and I never met a player who wouldn't be glad of a little combat skill. It's more likely I'm saying "You might need a bit of Research and Occult here, Joe" than "You really need more skill points in some sort of firearm..."

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

flyingmice

#52
August 22, 2007, 12:16:02 PM
Quote from: obrynWait - I thought this was about the problems with CoC.  Now we find out it's about your problems with the CoC groups you played with and/or listened to podcasts about.

But hey - keep moving those goalposts!

-O

Right. The problems aren't with CoC at all. They are with the players and GMs.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

flyingmice

#53
August 22, 2007, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Erik BoielleWell, CoC as played by me and my groups yes. Is that an issue?

Yes, actually, Eric. If there's a problem with the game itself, the only way to fix the problem is to change the game. If the problem is with the game-as-played, you can just change the way it is played.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

Nicephorus

#54
August 22, 2007, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: flyingmiceRight. The problems aren't with CoC at all.

I wouldn't go quite that far.  Many (maybe most, don't have book handy now) of the occupations are non-action types.  I could see someone getting the idea that action is not what the game is about, despite stat areas for weapons.
 
But I've never been in such a group.

jrients

#55
August 22, 2007, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: Erik BoielleAnd you had a a motorcycle-riding, sword-carrying, modern knight-templar wannabe?

What a total munchkin. Thats so not lovecraftian. Wouldn't you have been happier with DnD? Was he called Neo, perhaps?

Just as a counterpoint, I'm pretty sure that if I had the lodge member list handy I'd be only a couple phonecalls away from finding a knight templar who owned both a motorcycle and a sword.  I know I've been to knightings with a motorbike or two in the parking lot and most high degree masons I know own a sword.  Hell, when I was knighted they just gave me one of the spares out of the equipment room.
Jeff Rients
My gameblog

Erik Boielle

#56
August 22, 2007, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: jrientsJust as a counterpoint, I'm pretty sure that if I had the lodge member list handy I'd be only a couple phonecalls away from finding a knight templar who owned both a motorcycle and a sword.  I know I've been to knightings with a motorbike or two in the parking lot and most high degree masons I know own a sword.  Hell, when I was knighted they just gave me one of the spares out of the equipment room.

.


...

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Americans...

:-)




That said, I don't know masons, but being able to reliably carve up zombies moves you out of norm terratory and in to survivor turf (to riff on AFMBE), and is a different kettle of fish.

I mean, Alien is norms, Aliens is survivors, if you get my meaning.
Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

Warthur

#57
August 22, 2007, 12:49:34 PM
Quote from: WeeklyNow, for long term play, there's something to be said for character competence. Average Joes are well and good for canonic play with expendable PCs, but big campaigns groups need a bit of preparation. For instance, Delta Green does it by requiring characters to be employees of federal agencies. In my own campaign, PCs had to be Great War veterans (French characters, so no big deal). I ended up with 3 former combattants of various skill (special forces soldier, colonial troops officer, aerial observer) and a competent combat medic (former volunteer nurse). Strangely, casualties tend to be low...
To be fair, if you start off a campaign with a few gentle investigations the players can start developing their skills (thanks, BRP system!) and start drifting away from being Average Joes. There does come a point where their accumulated Cthulhu Mythos knowledge and sanity losses makes them dangerously fragile - which is the point where you semi-retire them, and use them as informants, researchers, and occasional spellcasters and backup for the current active party.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

jrients

#58
August 22, 2007, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: Erik BoielleThat said, I don't know masons, but being able to reliably carve up zombies moves you out of norm terratory and in to survivor turf (to riff on AFMBE), and is a different kettle of fish.

In the event of a zombie attack you could do helluva lot worse than the fellas in my lodge.  During my year as Worshipful Master nearly every active member was a cop, ex-cop, and/or ex-military.  Most lodge nights at Western Star #240 I was clearly the whimpiest guy in the room.  The whimpiest looking guy in the room, on the other hand, was special forces during the tail end of the Vietnam conflict.  I knew Doc for at least 5 years before I even knew he had been in Nam, much less in special forces.
Jeff Rients
My gameblog

Nicephorus

#59
August 22, 2007, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: jrientsIn the event of a zombie attack you could do helluva lot worse than the fellas in my lodge....

This would be a good setup for a game.  
 
A lodge that is more than a bunch of old guys bowling and driving tiny cars in parades.  They slowly and secretly select community members to protect the community from supernatural forces. The lodge would have ancient lore that's been passed down and have connections to the national organization.  It would also have connections to local government so would have as much cooperation as could be given without arousing suspicion.
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