Quote from: StuartThis is a good way to get passive players to stop turtling and put their characters in danger.  Make sure they understand it's not that the cultists might summon a monster... they will summon a monster.  And monster's job #1 is eating the player's characters.  Make sure they understand that if they sit back and do nothing, something nasty will come and find them.

Heck, the monster isn't always even necessary for this. If it becomes clear to the players that the Order of the Black Cosmos has done, is doing, and will continue to do horrible things in the name of their dark god, it doesn't matter whether that god's real or not: inaction isn't an option. The police don't give credence to the party's conspiracy theories... or are too horribly overstretched to investigate the matter themselves... or are pawns of the conspiracy, because although the Black Cosmos only has six members, those six members happen to be the Mayor, the chief of police, the local judge, the head of the local Masonic lodge, and so forth. The cultists can't ask the people they hold sway over to directly collaborate with the Order, or to do anything wildly illegal - that'd just expose them - but they can, say, ask beat cops to be extra-vigilant in making sure those troublemaking conspiracy kooks don't cause trouble.

Actually, I think it would be better to have the Mayor, Chief of Police and local Judge as PCs battling troublemaking cultists from out of town.

1: They are more likly to care what happens

2: People will expect them to deal with it

3: Attempts to solve the problem/get on with the adventure will be met with approval by NPCs instead of hostility

4: They have something to work with (asking the beat cops to be extra-vigilant, frex)

I dunno - its just not healthy to have the response to 'I investigate!' be 'the local cops rough you up and dump you on the edge of town'. Its almost pavlovian. You are training your players out of taking the lead.

Quote from: DrewIndeed, but the game as written keeps characters capabilities very close to the normal human baseline. It takes considerable setting and system drift to play it Buffy style.

Fallacy of the excluded middle. There's a lot of room between "insurance saleman" and "magically enhanced/magic wielding uber ass-kicker." It's called competence.

YOU CAN BE NORMAL AND STILL BE COMPETENT IN ACTION!

Use competent characters and get a decent GM. CoC can rock, I assure you.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceFallacy of the excluded middle. There's a lot of room between "insurance saleman" and "magically enhanced/magic wielding uber ass-kicker." It's called competence.

YOU CAN BE NORMAL AND STILL BE COMPETENT IN ACTION!

Use competent characters and get a decent GM. CoC can rock, I assure you.

-clash

By "very close to the normal human baseline" I meant characters that are not in possession of some kind of superhuman/supernatural edge. Poor phrasing on my part, I guess.

And yes, Cthulhu can indeed rock with characters who are competent in a scrap.

Quote from: DrewBy "very close to the normal human baseline" I meant characters that are not in possession of some kind of superhuman/supernatural edge. Poor phrasing on my part, I guess.

And yes, Cthulhu can indeed rock with characters who are competent in a scrap.

OK! Coolness!

-clash

Well, I'd note that in the above podcast the characters are

1: A stage magician
2: A retired colonel
3: An archeologists widow
4: Her maid
and
5: A sometimes smuggler of european antiquites

If these were a bunch of hardened ex-trench fighters from the first world war or even policemen, I wouldn't have a problem, but they are Normal People In Over Their Heads (except for the munchkin professor), and it don't bloody work.

Quote from: Erik BoielleI dunno - its just not healthy to have the response to 'I investigate!' be 'the local cops rough you up and dump you on the edge of town'. Its almost pavlovian. You are training your players out of taking the lead.

Which, obviously happens in every CoC game ever!

...except mine and most others...

-O

Quote from: Warthurthe arrival of one of the big monsters would be an indicator that we had seriously screwed up.

Yep, this has been common wisdom since I first heard of the game, back in the 80's.
Now, for long term play, there's something to be said for character competence. Average Joes are well and good for canonic play with expendable PCs, but big campaigns groups need a bit of preparation. For instance, Delta Green does it by requiring characters to be employees of federal agencies. In my own campaign, PCs had to be Great War veterans (French characters, so no big deal). I ended up with 3 former combattants of various skill (special forces soldier, colonial troops officer, aerial observer) and a competent combat medic (former volunteer nurse). Strangely, casualties tend to be low...

Quote from: WeeklyStrangely, casualties tend to be low...

QuoteDaniel: Hey - you ever get into fights when you were a kid?
Miyagi: Huh - plenty.
Daniel: Yeah, but it wasn't like the problem I have, right?
Miyagi: Why? Fighting fighting. Same same.
Daniel: Yeah, but you knew karate.
Miyagi: Someone always know more.
Daniel: You mean there were times when you were scared to fight?
Miyagi: Always scare. Miyagi hate fighting.
Daniel: Yeah, but you like karate.
Miyagi: So?
Daniel: So, karate's fighting. You train to fight.
Miyagi: That what you think?
Daniel: [pondering] No.
Miyagi: Then why train?
Daniel: [thinks] So I won't have to fight.
Miyagi: [laughs] Miyagi have hope for you.

:-)

Quote from: Erik BoielleWell, I'd note that in the above podcast the characters are

1: A stage magician
2: A retired colonel
3: An archeologists widow
4: Her maid
and
5: A sometimes smuggler of european antiquites

If these were a bunch of hardened ex-trench fighters from the first world war or even policemen, I wouldn't have a problem, but they are Normal People In Over Their Heads (except for the munchkin professor), and it don't bloody work.

Then the people in the podcast are:
a: designing poorly thought out characters
b: because they had no guidance from their GM
c: who's a pretty poor excuse for a GM anyway

That stage magician should be able to use knives in his act! Many juggle them or throw them!
That retired colonel doesn't know how to shoot a gun? That's ridiculous!
That smuggler has never got into trouble on the docks? Why is he still alive?

The archeologist's widow and her maid are troublesome, but the others could compensate, especially if they could do something useful, like a bit of nursing.

The GM should have sent these characters back to the players with a "Useless Character!" stamp on them.

-clahs

amen...i was thinking the same exact thing.  I'm all for player freedom, but damn.  (well, they're free to make lame and inept characters, so there's that...)

-k

Quote from: flyingmiceThen the people in the podcast are:
a: designing poorly thought out characters
b: because they had no guidance from their GM
c: who's a pretty poor excuse for a GM anyway

That stage magician should be able to use knives in his act! Many juggle them or throw them!
That retired colonel doesn't know how to shoot a gun? That's ridiculous!
That smuggler has never got into trouble on the docks? Why is he still alive?

The archeologist's widow and her maid are troublesome, but the others could compensate, especially if they could do something useful, like a bit of nursing.

The GM should have sent these characters back to the players with a "Useless Character!" stamp on them.

-clahs

Quote from: flyingmiceThe GM should have sent these characters back to the players with a "Useless Character!" stamp on them.

-clahs

FWIW, I agree.

I ran a 2-year d20 CoC game, and I had...

* An occultist, who ended up learning a spell or two
* A psychic
* A short-lived musician, then construction worker, then ultimately ultra-cautious shaman-type
* A soldier
* A motorcycle-riding, sword-carrying, modern knight-templar wannabe.  (It was weird, but he turned out pretty kickass.  Too bad the character got killed up in northern Canada...)

I had them all be members of a non-governmental group dedicated to investigating the paranormal.  It worked as a basic frame on which to hang a campaign.

-O

Quote from: WarthurHeck, the monster isn't always even necessary for this. .

You can also start in media res. The 'Shit just happenend to you, people. Now survive !' model works quite well.
I launched my last game by affecting the PCs with a mysterious illness that made them sleep for days in a row, along with a bunch of 50 random NPCs. I'm still wondering why they chose not to to trust those nice military doctors who were trying to help them but to follow vague clues they gathered during a shared dream...

Quote from: flyingmiceThen the people in the podcast are:
a: designing poorly thought out characters
b: because they had no guidance from their GM
c: who's a pretty poor excuse for a GM anyway

That stage magician should be able to use knives in his act! Many juggle them or throw them!
That retired colonel doesn't know how to shoot a gun? That's ridiculous!
That smuggler has never got into trouble on the docks? Why is he still alive?

The archeologist's widow and her maid are troublesome, but the others could compensate, especially if they could do something useful, like a bit of nursing.

The GM should have sent these characters back to the players with a "Useless Character!" stamp on them.

Well, in part because of the massivly unhealthy culture surrounding CoC, its almost a status game about who can have the most inappropriate/useless/'normal' character.

So much as looking at a Tommy Gun, for instance, marks you as a hated munchkin who should be playing DnD. Hell, playing someone who can do more than wonder around saying 'Not another boring library' marks you out as a hated munchkin.

Complicating this is that the magician, for instance, is played by the GMs wife who doesn't really have much interest in combat. Which is fine, but they need to either start playing by scoobie do rules (and stop having heavily armed murderous cultists wondering around (at least ones that arn't played for comic relief)) or they need adventures that are actually intended for normal people instead of a bloody swat team.

Quote from: Erik BoielleSo much as looking at a Tommy Gun, for instance, marks you as a hated munchkin who should be playing DnD. Hell, playing someone who can do more than wonder around saying 'Not another boring library' marks you out as a hated munchkin.

I keep hearing about these kinds of artsy fartsy players.  I've run more CoC at cons than in regular campaigns and I never encountered them.  Maybe its a regional difference or a con thing, but I could hand any random player a Badass Shotgun Priest and everything was aces.