I was re-reading the Rifts Japan worldbook and it struck me.
Imagine you're a common person in the world of Rifts. You have no high tech (MD) gear. You eke out a living on a family farm. Every few months you go into the village to trade and chat. You hear rumors and legends, but they've never touched you in person. So far...
One day, this fucking thing floats into the village during one of your visits.
(http://www.gweep.net/~hyacinth/pics/rifts_cover.jpg)
It cackles manically as it snatches a child up from the street and gobbles the poor kid down as a snack. The screams are interrupted by crunching bone and the blood dribbles down it's chin. The eerily beautiful women leap from the barge and begin capturing villagers. You somehow manage to find a hiding place, as the creatures cut down anyone who raises a pitiful weapon to them.
Your family is gone. Stolen and/or eaten by the disgusting thing. The smoking remains of the village are all that's left of them. Your family is gone. Taken for ends that you can't bring yourself to imagine.
I think that anyone in that world would pick up some quirks. I think there's a reason why the original Rifts RPG rulebook had the Insanity section near the beginning. And the Crazy OCC just wears that on it's sleeve. Beat the rush, get some metal stuck in your brain and join in on the crazy.
This guy here wears a skull helmet and wages war against wizards.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f8sCIk2cXXc/UtlqBZMM78I/AAAAAAAAFwg/j6F_XGHPxCc/s1600/coalitionleaders.gif)
Here is a 4 armed cyborg who dresses like a cowboy and fights vampires.
(http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/images/c62ce0f33a8befe0a79369abb773dd808bfffca2034c6aa0dab093c34d2d0439.jpeg)
Putting a skull on your tank is probably the least crazy thing a person in this situation could do.
People are superstitious because in Rifts, superstition is reality. That woman with a strange birthmark could really be a witch, in consort with demonic forces.
Even the 'sanest' are a bit touched. Putting a monstrous face on your cyborg head to intimidate your enemies.
(http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/images/d5d74fbbda40d4f7924e09d23753b8c6cdc761e5470b9a20e297dbedb9d156d5.jpeg)
Is it practical? Fuck practicality when you're fighting a goddamn gargoyle or werewolf or demon. You'll probably be dead by tomorrow, if you're one of the lucky ones.
So people cope with the extreme craziness of the Rifts world by becoming a little crazy themselves. People in the New West dress like cowboys. They watch a pre-Rifts cowboy flick and think, "That's cool", and that's enough reason for a lot of them.
So I know it's a post-hoc rationalization, but I think a lot of the text itself supports the idea.
Everyone in Rifts is a little nuts.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;923115So I know it's a post-hoc rationalization, but I think a lot of the text itself supports the idea.
Everyone in Rifts is a little nuts.
No. Just people adapted to a different environment.
People from 1000 years ago would probably think modern life is insane if you described how people act.
Hell. Look at how modern Americans react sometimes when someone describes life in modern Japan. And probably vis-a-vis.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;923115... I think there's a reason why the original Rifts RPG rulebook had the Insanity section near the beginning...
Although the idea in general of people in the Rifts world generally being a bit nuts has merit, the reason the Insanity section was near the beginning is because layout is hard, and Kevin S. usually re-used as much of the layout for other books in the Rifts book. It's near the start of the Palladium Fantasy rules, and TMNT as well.
But it is an insane world. But then, most post apocolyptic settings involve folks who've gone a little crazy in some way.
Kitchen-sink, psycho-bullshit setting that some people seem to like. But then, all those "shattered earth/time-universe spillage/everywhere" universes are like that. If hearing Glitterboy and Boom Gun give you a stiffie, this is your whackin' mag.
It's a post-apocalyptic world. Mad Max with demons, wizards, and mecha. Look at how crazy people are in Mad Max, and add that extra layer of paranormal on top of it.
OP is spot on and it's always a good thing to keep in mind.
In a world as insane as Rifts Earth, keeping your wits about you would be the real deviancy.
Why aren't there any rifts that open to nice aliens? Benevolent robot overlords? Tau?
Quote from: AaronBrown99;923743Why aren't there any rifts that open to nice aliens? Benevolent robot overlords? Tau?
Because that would be boring!
Some D-Bees (people from the Rifts) are pretty benign, or at least not slobbering hell monsters.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qE0EENRUSVY/VTb9F5pydjI/AAAAAAAAECo/bQrrhH-wtZY/s1600/Flooper.png)
Floopers are lazy (except when having fun) they teleport around and like to do acrobatics.
(http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/images/e10df504934bdbbd7331c58e072557f9acadc469b0576b9d4c1961c7bf0afce4.jpeg)
The Simvan are aggresive and violent, but have a code of behavior and respect strength. So you can at least parley with them, konk then on the noggin if they get out of line, and that's that.
(http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/images/d2985a66e975ee09f1e92e3b2886d1f35c9ce3bd53ca3f431d361e8f82cacebb.jpeg)
Shapers change parts of their body. Like the Floopers, they're more interested in having fun than anything else.
But man, it only takes one of these to ruin a person's whole outlook on things from the Rifts
(http://www.merzo.net/Gallery_Sourcebook/Sourcebook1%20Thornhead.gif)
Aaand I just lost d4 SAN looking at that last one....
Quote from: Omega;923129No. Just people adapted to a different environment.
People from 1000 years ago would probably think modern life is insane if you described how people act.
Hell. Look at how modern Americans react sometimes when someone describes life in modern Japan. And probably vis-a-vis.
Pretty much this.
What one man considers insane, another man considers normal.
Well duh. It's a post-apocalyptic setting. Everyone would get a bit nuts. Like what happened in Europe after the Black Death (and that was a much milder apocalypse).
Quote from: RPGPundit;924544Well duh. It's a post-apocalyptic setting. Everyone would get a bit nuts. Like what happened in Europe after the Black Death (and that was a much milder apocalypse).
Insane by our standards, not by theirs. That's something we need to realize. We're working with more information, we know more about the real situation back then, and even then, we have things like the American Presidential Election, the various Olympic and FIFA scandals and tomfockery among the more recent insanities.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;924720Insane by our standards, not by theirs. That's something we need to realize. We're working with more information, we know more about the real situation back then, and even then, we have things like the American Presidential Election, the various Olympic and FIFA scandals and tomfockery among the more recent insanities.
I think you are wrong. I think they recognized both the instability in their world. And in their own mind.
Quote from: Headless;924872I think you are wrong. I think they recognized both the instability in their world. And in their own mind.
Ah. The thing is, one doesn't preclude the other. We KNOW that certain things that are happening RIGHT now is pretty much insanity defined, and yet, we still ACCEPT it. What's to say those living on RIFTS Earth don't either?
So I'll grant you that they see the world as nuts, but maybe not so much nuts in their own mind. After all, we may think the Americans are insane by sticking with their current presidential choices (for example) but do you think that they believe they are completely off their rockers?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;923115I was re-reading the Rifts Japan worldbook and it struck me.
Imagine you're a common person in the world of Rifts. You have no high tech (MD) gear. You eke out a living on a family farm. Every few months you go into the village to trade and chat. You hear rumors and legends, but they've never touched you in person. So far...
One day, this fucking thing floats into the village during one of your visits.
(http://www.gweep.net/~hyacinth/pics/rifts_cover.jpg)
It cackles manically as it snatches a child up from the street and gobbles the poor kid down as a snack. The screams are interrupted by crunching bone and the blood dribbles down it's chin. The eerily beautiful women leap from the barge and begin capturing villagers. You somehow manage to find a hiding place, as the creatures cut down anyone who raises a pitiful weapon to them.
Your family is gone. Stolen and/or eaten by the disgusting thing. The smoking remains of the village are all that's left of them. Your family is gone. Taken for ends that you can't bring yourself to imagine.
Just going to point out the origin story hidden inside a good point. I'm thinking Cyber-Knight.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;924878So I'll grant you that they see the world as nuts, but maybe not so much nuts in their own mind. After all, we may think the Americans are insane by sticking with their current presidential choices (for example) but do you think that they believe they are completely off their rockers?
Yes, yes we do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlcngdW2Ju4
Quote from: Headless;924890Yes, yes we do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlcngdW2Ju4
So to clarify, nothing else here, not insulting or otherwise derogatory, do you honestly believe that YOU are certifiably insane?
Quote from: Certified;924881Just going to point out the origin story hidden inside a good point. I'm thinking Cyber-Knight.
Or Coalition soldier, or sign up with a Coalition aligned merc crew. It's a pretty open set up.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;924911Or Coalition soldier, or sign up with a Coalition aligned merc crew. It's a pretty open set up.
I've always thought that a lot of Juicers, Crazies and Borgs have that kind of origin story.
Village eaten. No money, nothing to lose. Get augmented, serve a term to pay off the bill, and then go looking for the demons that ate your sister.
Becoming a Juicer or Crazy is an insane reaction to an insane world...therefore it makes perfect sense. :D
Becoming a Full Conversion Borg is little less crazy, but you're still essentially saying "I'm sacrificing a lot my humanity, but in this world, humanity isn't worth much."
Of course Borgs are also the normal sane guys who say "Well, I can't afford a Glitter Boy" or Ultimax... :D
Quote from: Ratman_tf;924951I've always thought that a lot of Juicers, Crazies and Borgs have that kind of origin story.
Village eaten. No money, nothing to lose. Get augmented, serve a term to pay off the bill, and then go looking for the demons that ate your sister.
Quote from: CRKrueger;924977Becoming a Juicer or Crazy is an insane reaction to an insane world...therefore it makes perfect sense. :D
Becoming a Full Conversion Borg is little less crazy, but you're still essentially saying "I'm sacrificing a lot my humanity, but in this world, humanity isn't worth much."
Of course Borgs are also the normal sane guys who say "Well, I can't afford a Glitter Boy" or Ultimax... :D
Exactly, like I said, open to a lot of OCCs.
There is a point there: outside of the context of culture and history, just about any group of people look certifiably insane.
Quote from: CRKrueger;924977Of course Borgs are also the normal sane guys who say "Well, I can't afford a Glitter Boy" or Ultimax... :D
True. Also, in the original rule book (I don't know about the Ultimate Edition) "Slave Borg" was an OCC subtype, as many borgs were created involuntarily as laborers. I always thought the undercurrents of Rifts was more interesting than the in-your-face aspects of the setting.
Quote from: RPGPundit;925454There is a point there: outside of the context of culture and history, just about any group of people look certifiably insane.
My point exactly.
Quote from: everloss;925542I always thought the undercurrents of Rifts was more interesting than the in-your-face aspects of the setting.
Fully agree! If you want to run Rifts grimdark, its definitely a nasty world. One of the main reasons I enjoy running Chaos Earth. It's high tech Walking Dead.
Quote from: RPGPundit;925454There is a point there: outside of the context of culture and history, just about any group of people look certifiably insane.
Sure, maybe. As long as you aren't advancing a cultural relativism of sanity argument.
Quote from: Spinachcat;925556Fully agree! If you want to run Rifts grimdark, its definitely a nasty world. One of the main reasons I enjoy running Chaos Earth. It's high tech Walking Dead.
Systems Failure is even more like that.
Siembieda really dropped the ball with Chaos Earth. If he hadn't tried to split it up into 3 books, I think it would have been a big seller. I certainly like it a lot.
Quote from: RPGPundit;925454There is a point there: outside of the context of culture and history, just about any group of people look certifiably insane.
Culture and history are the reason people do things. So paraphrasing the above statement "people who do things for no reason are insane."
And people in hight stress environments know they are in high stress environments. And they can feel the toll it takes on them. They know they aren't at their best.
Quote from: danbuter;927301Siembieda really dropped the ball with Chaos Earth. If he hadn't tried to split it up into 3 books, I think it would have been a big seller. I certainly like it a lot.
He did. Also what's with all wizards turning MDC at ley lines? I realize the magic levels were higher but jeez.
Quote from: The Butcher;927429He did. Also what's with all wizards turning MDC at ley lines? I realize the magic levels were higher but jeez.
MDC in general is a goofy idea. The idea that either high technology or magic are the factors that make tiny town dictators or allow demons and monsters to prey on people with impunity is good.
Making it into a "I got MD, fuck you." is bad, in that anyone who wants to do anything in Rifts is probably going to have to tangle with
not magic or technology specifically, but MD/MDC specifically.
And so we get magic MDC leaves, and magic gives you MDC and magic gives you MD all over the place.
Magic or technology in Rifts isn't powerful*, Mega-Damage is powerful.
*This is a huge simplification. There are spells that can be powerful situationally without addressing MD, but you better have a MD solution somewhere along the line.
Quote from: danbuter;927301Siembieda really dropped the ball with Chaos Earth. If he hadn't tried to split it up into 3 books, I think it would have been a big seller. I certainly like it a lot.
Maybe it should have been a Rifts supplemental line, like the Dimension Books and Phase World, instead of its own game line.
But it really needs a total overhaul.
Quote from: RPGPundit;926829Systems Failure is even more like that.
Very true. I use the OCCs from Systems Failure for the non-NEMA forces in Chaos Earth. It works great.
Quote from: The Butcher;927429Also what's with all wizards turning MDC at ley lines?
I actually liked that, but only when the wizard was at the ley line. It led to some interesting tactics.
Quote from: danbuter;927301Siembieda really dropped the ball with Chaos Earth. If he hadn't tried to split it up into 3 books, I think it would have been a big seller. I certainly like it a lot.
He also lied about the core book being a 'complete' game. That got up my craw.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;927464MDC in general is a goofy idea. The idea that either high technology or magic are the factors that make tiny town dictators or allow demons and monsters to prey on people with impunity is good.
Making it into a "I got MD, fuck you." is bad, in that anyone who wants to do anything in Rifts is probably going to have to tangle with not magic or technology specifically, but MD/MDC specifically.
And so we get magic MDC leaves, and magic gives you MDC and magic gives you MD all over the place.
Magic or technology in Rifts isn't powerful*, Mega-Damage is powerful.
*This is a huge simplification. There are spells that can be powerful situationally without addressing MD, but you better have a MD solution somewhere along the line.
Actually, MD in general, especially techwise was even more broken. It made every piece of military level (not actual military hardware, but anything that could be taken into battle, like those dune buggies from the core book) gear able to affect each other equally. Couple that with Siembeida's inability to understand sensory equipment, you have situations where military forces would do better with fielding 3-4 platoons of men and ignore everything else, simply because several men with rifles would and could lay waste to every piece of heavy armour (as in tanks, power armour and robots) in about 15 seconds of concentrated firepower.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;927565Actually, MD in general, especially techwise was even more broken. It made every piece of military level (not actual military hardware, but anything that could be taken into battle, like those dune buggies from the core book) gear able to affect each other equally. Couple that with Siembeida's inability to understand sensory equipment, you have situations where military forces would do better with fielding 3-4 platoons of men and ignore everything else, simply because several men with rifles would and could lay waste to every piece of heavy armour (as in tanks, power armour and robots) in about 15 seconds of concentrated firepower.
I actually don't have an issue with that. For a game setting that's usually focused on a small group (of player characters) going on adventures and doing stuff. I want them to be able to take on a Coalition patrol one day, and a pack of vampires the next. If that means the party can focus fire with fireballs and laser rifles and blow up a tank, I can live with it.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;927565He also lied about the core book being a 'complete' game. That got up my craw.
Mine as well. Made worse by some of the fans and people working for the company insisting it was. Telling me it's complete but one still needs to buy book 2 and 3 to cover the missing elements means it's not complete. It's a clusterfuck of epic proportions with Palladium Books. Their Robotech mini game is delayed. Kevin keeps promising the fanbase 50+ books knowing damn well with their resources and employees might if they are lucky release four a year. And no I don't consider their Rifters a official product.
As to the OP it's the end of the world. The planet is overrun with demons and who knows what. If anything being sane would be abnormal imo. It's like the Walking Dead. The tone down how insane the main characters should be otherwise it would be depressing to watch. Their surrounded by zombies. Will be come one if they die and no cure in sight. Insanity would be the norm in both worlds.
Just to play Devil's Advocate.
I doubt there are many, if any, insane people left on Rifts Earth. It's just too deadly and unforgiving for them to survive for long.
Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.
Someone like that would get dead on Rifts earth in a hurry. They would have to be watched constantly to keep them from wandering off and getting eaten or suffering some other horrible fate and everyone else would be too busy surviving to want to do it. The insane people would get weeded out fast.
Getting a cyborg body in Rifts isn't insane. It's perfectly rational. Given that lethality of the environment and the creatures that can be found in it, trading in your fragile meat body for a metal one that can actually withstand the environment is quite rational. People like this who are looking for some edge to survive are the sane ones. They are coping with the world as it really is.
Quote from: yosemitemike;928035Just to play Devil's Advocate.
I doubt there are many, if any, insane people left on Rifts Earth. It's just too deadly and unforgiving for them to survive for long.
Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.
Someone like that would get dead on Rifts earth in a hurry. They would have to be watched constantly to keep them from wandering off and getting eaten or suffering some other horrible fate and everyone else would be too busy surviving to want to do it. The insane people would get weeded out fast.
Getting a cyborg body in Rifts isn't insane. It's perfectly rational. Given that lethality of the environment and the creatures that can be found in it, trading in your fragile meat body for a metal one that can actually withstand the environment is quite rational. People like this who are looking for some edge to survive are the sane ones. They are coping with the world as it really is.
This is pretty much my position as well. What WE consider absolutely gonzo nutso in RIFTS isn't, because it's a matter of life and death.
Quote from: yosemitemike;928035Getting a cyborg body in Rifts isn't insane. It's perfectly rational. Given that lethality of the environment and the creatures that can be found in it, trading in your fragile meat body for a metal one that can actually withstand the environment is quite rational. People like this who are looking for some edge to survive are the sane ones. They are coping with the world as it really is.
This brings up the other aspect of why I asserted that people in Rifts are a bit nuts. I certainly didn't want to go into dictionary definitions and real world psychiatric conditions, but to rationalize stuff like this-
(http://terralthra.net/sdnet/rifts/R_Jsamuraicyber.png)
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OptimusZed/technowizard.jpg)
Getting a cyborg body is, some might say, a rational reaction to Rifts earth. But getting a dragon cyborg body?
(http://terralthra.net/sdnet/rifts/R_Jborgtsunami.png)
Aw yeah.
They're just trying to look cool.
Quote from: Headless;927363Culture and history are the reason people do things. So paraphrasing the above statement "people who do things for no reason are insane."
And people in hight stress environments know they are in high stress environments. And they can feel the toll it takes on them. They know they aren't at their best.
No, the way I meant it is "to someone outside of the history and culture of a person doing a thing, most of what that person does will look crazy".
Quote from: RPGPundit;928732No, the way I meant it is "to someone outside of the history and culture of a person doing a thing, most of what that person does will look crazy".
Sure but histoy and culture are the reason for lots of stuff and they color everythingelse. The person with out history and culture is closer to insane.
That said I still agree with the OP that the survivors are on the ragged edge.
I think i am with the joker instead of Conan on this one. That which does not kill you doesnt make you stronger, it makes you stranger.
Hell, we'd all seem insane to people even from 80 years ago.
What i meant by insanity being the norm is that one can walk to the lake to get a bucket of water. Their not only a good chance of something waiting to attack in the lake. It's also immune to most non-mdc attacks. It's a world where danger is always closeby imo. Their not going to be batshit insane. I do think most people in that world would be slighlty unhinged in some way. Simply because the rest of the world around them is insane.