Greetings!

In my studies of the Steppe cultures, and most especially the Mongols, I have always been amazed and yes, even thrilled, about the leadership and achievements of Genghis Khan. at the time--in the beginning--the Mongols, just like their numerous cousins and neighboring steppe tribe peoples, were all barbarians, fairly primitive, and often desperately poor. they lived largely on a subsistence culture, based on herding, hunting, and fishing. They typically in good seasons, had enough for basic needs, with a little left over to save for hard times, and going into the next year. These people were raided, enslaved, killed, and brutalized by their neighbors, variously being the Europeans to the at West, the Muslims to the South-West, and the Chinese Empires to the South and South-East. All of these rich, civilized, and powerful cultures mocked the Steppe peoples, and laughed at tribes such as the Mongols.

A time would come, however, when all of the arrogant, mighty kings of the earth would bow down, low into the dirt, and beg for mercy from the Mongols.

They usually received no mercy from the Mongol armies. The Mongol armies burned, raped, and slaughtered everyone in their path. The more obnoxious, arrogant, and proud such kingdoms were, moved them to the top of the list for the Mongols--to be annihilated. The Muslims of the Abassid Caliphate, the Kwarazmian Empire, the Seljuk Empire; the Christian kingdoms of Hungary, Poland, and the Kievan Rus; The Chinese Empires of the Tangut Empire, the Jin Empire, and the Song Empire--all of them, being far superior to the Mongols in every conventional way--would be ruthlessly slaughtered, conquered, and made to bow down before the Mongols. It is the ultimate heroic tale of an entire people being led to achieve justice and vengeance. It is a staggering achievement literally unparalleled in all of human history. All those that laughed and jeered at the Mongols would now be watching helplessly as their cities lay in ashes, their beautiful daughters carried off to serve their new Mongolian masters and everything they valued crushed and destroyed. Everything that they believed made them superior--their language, their religions, their armies, their civilization, and their wealth--nothing would save them. Nothing would buy them reprieve from the judgment of the Khans.

Now, they would learn to speak Mongolian. Now, they would learn that they were powerless. They would learn to beg, and scrape in the dust. It is they, the arrogant, civilized realms, that would learn to obey.

A striking and raw story of how every dog has his day, and the tables being turned on the arrogant and powerful. There are reasons why the tales of the Mongols have been inspiring for millions of people through the many centuries, from all over the world. The Mongos were inspiring.

Such a gripping and compelling story quickly grabbed my attention. I have been inspired to weave in the various elements and aspects of Steppe culture throughout my Steppe Campaign. History and lore were very important for the Steppe tribes. They had long-established oral traditions--que up the Bards and tribal storytellers--that memorized and passed down the lore of the tribes through generations of people. The Steppe tribes remembered every insult, every degradation, and every humiliation.

There would be no forgiveness.

Even today, there are tribal storytellers that keep their tribal lore alive. Bards then, storytellers, are very important people in Steppe Culture society. In my own Steppe Campaign, I knew I had to rework the Westernized version of a Bard, and translate that essence into a class that authentically fit within a barbaric, tribal cultural environment. That also has significant social ramifications, and I suggest to all that you carefully review notes about Bards, and making such a character class fit well within the Steppe Tribal context. And remember, THROAT SINGING is awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

Here is a SUPERB video on the organization and tactics of the Mongol Army. In addition, supply and logistic are detailed, as well as rank structure. Absolutely informative and interesting. You will enjoy every moment of the video, presented by Invicta.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Heck yeah. This is truly an informative thread. I have so many vids on my watch list. I needed quality stuff to watch too.

The Chivalry & Sorcery sourcebook Swords and Sorcerers has a big section about the Mongols.
If you get the chance, I greatly recommend you watch the Kazakh Khanate (15th century). It has some really cool stuff:



Since you are also interested in music videos, you should check out the band Hassak:

Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 09, 2023, 04:53:45 AM
The Chivalry & Sorcery sourcebook Swords and Sorcerers has a big section about the Mongols.
If you get the chance, I greatly recommend you watch the Kazakh Khanate (15th century). It has some really cool stuff:

Since you are also interested in music videos, you should check out the band Hassak:

Greetings!

Excellent, Rhymer88!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on June 08, 2023, 10:03:52 PM
Heck yeah. This is truly an informative thread. I have so many vids on my watch list. I needed quality stuff to watch too.

Greetings!

So many videos on the watch list, Thorn! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote
In my studies of the Steppe cultures, and most especially the Mongols, I have always been amazed and yes, even thrilled, about the leadership and achievements of Genghis Khan. at the time--in the beginning--the Mongols, just like their numerous cousins and neighboring steppe tribe peoples, were all barbarians, fairly primitive, and often desperately poor. they lived largely on a subsistence culture, based on herding, hunting, and fishing. They typically in good seasons, had enough for basic needs, with a little left over to save for hard times, and going into the next year. These people were raided, enslaved, killed, and brutalized by their neighbors, variously being the Europeans to the at West, the Muslims to the South-West, and the Chinese Empires to the South and South-East. All of these rich, civilized, and powerful cultures mocked the Steppe peoples, and laughed at tribes such as the Mongols.

A time would come, however, when all of the arrogant, mighty kings of the earth would bow down, low into the dirt, and beg for mercy from the Mongols.

They usually received no mercy from the Mongol armies. The Mongol armies burned, raped, and slaughtered everyone in their path. The more obnoxious, arrogant, and proud such kingdoms were, moved them to the top of the list for the Mongols--to be annihilated. The Muslims of the Abassid Caliphate, the Kwarazmian Empire, the Seljuk Empire; the Christian kingdoms of Hungary, Poland, and the Kievan Rus; The Chinese Empires of the Tangut Empire, the Jin Empire, and the Song Empire--all of them, being far superior to the Mongols in every conventional way--would be ruthlessly slaughtered, conquered, and made to bow down before the Mongols. It is the ultimate heroic tale of an entire people being led to achieve justice and vengeance. It is a staggering achievement literally unparalleled in all of human history. All those that laughed and jeered at the Mongols would now be watching helplessly as their cities lay in ashes, their beautiful daughters carried off to serve their new Mongolian masters and everything they valued crushed and destroyed. Everything that they believed made them superior--their language, their religions, their armies, their civilization, and their wealth--nothing would save them. Nothing would buy them reprieve from the judgment of the Khans.

Let's not overexaggerate things.
For centuries it was nomads who were mostly nuissance to civilised lands, not civilised lands somehow persecuting them. First and foremost because Empires of Asia were not nearly mobile enough in their warfare to really went into steppe for long time and keep persecuting much more mobile people. So Genghis Khan can put his "justice" into whatever caudlron of lava he is justly burning in hell.

But also it was not unprecedented. It happened before though Genghis and his sons were most impressive. But before them we had other nomadic nations carving larger or smaller kingdom from their neighbours - Seljuk Turks you mentioned started the same - Turkic people were nomads of Central Asia. Hungary you mentioned, and Bulgaria were founded as nations - by steppe nomads.
Even before Genghis - Huns, Khazars, Avars, all carved powerful chanates. So Genghis was cherry on top of long practice - he was probably aware of - of going into civilised lands and claiming them. And of course last ones to do it were Manchurians who conquered imperial China.

Quote from: Wrath of God on June 30, 2023, 04:18:53 AM

Quote
In my studies of the Steppe cultures, and most especially the Mongols, I have always been amazed and yes, even thrilled, about the leadership and achievements of Genghis Khan. at the time--in the beginning--the Mongols, just like their numerous cousins and neighboring steppe tribe peoples, were all barbarians, fairly primitive, and often desperately poor. they lived largely on a subsistence culture, based on herding, hunting, and fishing. They typically in good seasons, had enough for basic needs, with a little left over to save for hard times, and going into the next year. These people were raided, enslaved, killed, and brutalized by their neighbors, variously being the Europeans to the at West, the Muslims to the South-West, and the Chinese Empires to the South and South-East. All of these rich, civilized, and powerful cultures mocked the Steppe peoples, and laughed at tribes such as the Mongols.

A time would come, however, when all of the arrogant, mighty kings of the earth would bow down, low into the dirt, and beg for mercy from the Mongols.

They usually received no mercy from the Mongol armies. The Mongol armies burned, raped, and slaughtered everyone in their path. The more obnoxious, arrogant, and proud such kingdoms were, moved them to the top of the list for the Mongols--to be annihilated. The Muslims of the Abassid Caliphate, the Kwarazmian Empire, the Seljuk Empire; the Christian kingdoms of Hungary, Poland, and the Kievan Rus; The Chinese Empires of the Tangut Empire, the Jin Empire, and the Song Empire--all of them, being far superior to the Mongols in every conventional way--would be ruthlessly slaughtered, conquered, and made to bow down before the Mongols. It is the ultimate heroic tale of an entire people being led to achieve justice and vengeance. It is a staggering achievement literally unparalleled in all of human history. All those that laughed and jeered at the Mongols would now be watching helplessly as their cities lay in ashes, their beautiful daughters carried off to serve their new Mongolian masters and everything they valued crushed and destroyed. Everything that they believed made them superior--their language, their religions, their armies, their civilization, and their wealth--nothing would save them. Nothing would buy them reprieve from the judgment of the Khans.

Let's not overexaggerate things.
For centuries it was nomads who were mostly nuissance to civilised lands, not civilised lands somehow persecuting them. First and foremost because Empires of Asia were not nearly mobile enough in their warfare to really went into steppe for long time and keep persecuting much more mobile people. So Genghis Khan can put his "justice" into whatever caudlron of lava he is justly burning in hell.

But also it was not unprecedented. It happened before though Genghis and his sons were most impressive. But before them we had other nomadic nations carving larger or smaller kingdom from their neighbours - Seljuk Turks you mentioned started the same - Turkic people were nomads of Central Asia. Hungary you mentioned, and Bulgaria were founded as nations - by steppe nomads.
Even before Genghis - Huns, Khazars, Avars, all carved powerful chanates. So Genghis was cherry on top of long practice - he was probably aware of - of going into civilised lands and claiming them. And of course last ones to do it were Manchurians who conquered imperial China.

And of course it was the Manchus, buttressed by Chinese logistical prowess and firearms technology, who ended the Mongol threat to China once and for all and formally incorporated Central Asia and Tibet into the Chinese empire, along with Manchuria.  Thus were the borders of the PRC more or less established.

Greetings!

Oh yeah! The Manchus! The MING Dynasty was bad-ass. Emperor Huang-Do--"The Bringer of Light." "The Master of War." He goes rom being a poor peasant, an even poorer Monk, to being bandit,  mercenary, then Warlord, then  General, and then becoming the EMPEROR. How is that for a Heroes' journey!?"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"Empire of the Petal Throne" was way head of its time.
The Indian and Aztec style mixed setting was too strange for most to relate to.

Quote from: SHARK on June 30, 2023, 10:36:58 AM
Greetings!

Oh yeah! The Manchus! The MING Dynasty was bad-ass. Emperor Huang-Do--"The Bringer of Light." "The Master of War." He goes rom being a poor peasant, an even poorer Monk, to being bandit,  mercenary, then Warlord, then  General, and then becoming the EMPEROR. How is that for a Heroes' journey!?"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I assume you mean Zhu Yuanzhang, also known by his reign title Hongwu [洪武], which means "Overflowing martiality," and as Ming Taizu, meaning "August Founder of the Ming Dynasty."  Also the inspiration for Ming the Merciless.  And yes, he was quite the badass, as was his son, Emperor Yongle.

Quote from: Persimmon on June 30, 2023, 06:35:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on June 30, 2023, 10:36:58 AM
Greetings!

Oh yeah! The Manchus! The MING Dynasty was bad-ass. Emperor Huang-Do--"The Bringer of Light." "The Master of War." He goes rom being a poor peasant, an even poorer Monk, to being bandit,  mercenary, then Warlord, then  General, and then becoming the EMPEROR. How is that for a Heroes' journey!?"

Semper Fideli
SHARK

I assume you mean Zhu Yuanzhang, also known by his reign title Hongwu [洪武], which means "Overflowing martiality," and as Ming Taizu, meaning "August Founder of the Ming Dynasty."  Also the inspiration for Ming the Merciless.  And yes, he was quite the badass, as was his son, Emperor Yongle.

Greetings!

Yes, thank you my friend! That EMPEROR!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK