Greetings!

I've always been interested in history off the beaten track so to speak. That's also why I got into Ancient & Medieval History, instead of much of anything after 1500 A.D.

I have then endeavored to get an established campaign going that has a Central Asian theme, obviously focused more on the historical elements and traditions of the Aryans, Scythians, Xiongnu, the Huns, the Sarmations, the Turks, the Tatars, and of course, the MONGOLS.

It is not quite as brutal as seeking to run a prehistoric or Ice Age/Magafauna campaign, but it can be very challenging nonetheless. First off, you must throw out the entre Western model of economics and society.

there are no towns, or very few--and the economy runs on Bartering. Horses, herd animals, goats, various food items, finished products like tools, armour, weapons, fine furs, animal products like teeth, hooves, and antlers. Money just is not in general use for most Steppe Peoples. Then, the whole mode of living is Nomadic, rather than settled or Agricultural. People live in Yurts, and move around constantly. Seasonal encampments, moving the flocks and herds of animals to better grazing areas. Other resources like fish and rivers and lakes are also of prime value--but again, can be relatively few and far between. Plus, many rivers, such as they are, can be *seasonal*. Such rivers only show up during the winter or autumn, stay around for a few weeks or a few months, and then they are gone. At least until the next year comes around.

The social and cultural environment is totally different. There are no police, there are no taverns or hotels, or any of that. Your family, your friends, and the TRIBE are everything. Tribal elders are the people that serve as sages and judges. The society is very much strongly Patriarchal, though while women are also very traditional and feminine--there are also some allowances for especially strong, skilled, or mystical women. Politically and socially, however, the society looks generally to men to be the strong leaders and authority in almost everything. In general, men and women alike are considered adults by the time they become adolescents, shortly after reaching puberty.

Morals, values, "Laws"--all of these things are very basic, simple, and firmly rooted in nature, religion, traditions, and the harsh geography and climate that dominates everyone's life. Expectations of loyalty, and any demonstration of kindness or humanity is first and foremost prioritized amongst the members of your own tribe. Everyone else can be slaughtered, or made to starve. Their priority, is far, far down your list of priorities. Your tribe comes first, in everything. The way your tribe speaks, the customs they embrace, their standards and expectations, are all viewed as being more important, more meaningful, and right, compared to anyone and everyone else. There is not much room for the Western fetish and glorification for "rebels", either. Most rebels are brutally killed, or abandoned and exiled out on the steppe, where they then starve to death, dehydrate to death, are killed and eaten by savage animals--or killed by a neighboring, often hostile, tribe. Other tribes before they kill you are likely to simply judge you as being a worthless rebel and troublemaker--the proof being you wandering out here on the Steppe, all alone and without your family and kin. So, socially, that kind of harsh reality requires considerable adjustment for the GM, as well as the Players. MAJOR ADJUSTMENTS.

These are some of the elements that I identified as I proceeded with establishing a campaign set on a Steppe Theme.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The song "Eejin Duun" (Kalmyk Folk Song) by Okna Tsahan Zam. The music is excellent, and traditional Mongol. Pay some attention to the art work resented in the video. The art work is very realistic, and provocative, and very detailed.



Here is an outstanding music piece. "The Beginning" from the Mongol film soundtrack.

Greetings!

In thinking about the Steppe Campaign, much of the early adventures are likely to involve survival, exploring, fighting wild animals and beasts, and fighting off marauding, enemy tribes. As well as making raids against enemy tribes. The goals are likewise simple--steal horses, animals, and plunder. WOMEN are plunder. And, of course, the motivation of intimidation and vengeance. Enemy tribes that oppose your tribe must be punished. You punish them by killing them, stealing from them, and making them your slaves.

The idea of integrating foreign, non-steppe tribe characters is certainly possible, but does pose a challenge. Again, there is not typically many strange towns to visit, in order to meet such people. Then, there is the tribal factor. Why would anyone want to befriend YOU? You are a foreigner, and an enemy. You should be killed, or enslaved. That can definitely be an IN-GAME kind of cultural hurdle that poses challenges not typically faced in more standard campaigns. It is not insurmountable, but again, requires a good deal of thought, creativity, and finesse on the part of the GM. Creating the scenario and cultivating the motivations for others of the Steppe tribes not to kill foreign Characters or enslave them takes some work. Again, virtually everyone in a tribe will embrace such values. No one will bravely come to some foreign character's aid or defense. Everyone likely believes you should be brutally killed, or simply enslaved. It must be remembered, that the majority of these Steppe tribes view most other Steppe tribes in precisely the same manner. Hated scum that needs to be killed or enslaved.

All of this is crucial background to understand and embrace, so that the GM and players can then figure out how to deal with it, ameliorate it, or side-step it in whatever satisfying manner. It is a huge problem, though, and a cultural challenge--this is what the main early difficulty Genghis Khan had in uniting the Mongol Tribes. He was prepared to kill half of all the Mongols in order to instill a sense of common unity and a simple system of laws for them. So, seeing how we know what an obstacle this was in Mongolian culture, historically, many other Steppe tribes were similar in their cultural views, customs, and practices. Obviously, some more, some less.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

Here is some more inspiring music, from I think Okna Tsahan Zam. It sounds close, but I could be mistaken.



Here is a song by Farya Faraji. This gentleman is Persian, and he is quite a music scholar, historian, musician, and linguist. He is fluent in Persian, Turkish, Greek, Latin, Bulgarian, and I think also Russian. In addition to English. If you track down more of this brilliant musician's videos, he sings his own music, he writes songs adapted from traditional, ancient sources, and where possible, he also plays all kinds of cultural and historical instruments! This guy is incredible! He also provides for most of his videos historical commentary, folklore, and musical commentary on the song's structure, and all of the instruments used! Beware! (*Laughing*). Definitely DEEP and just awesome on so many levels!

Greetings!

I also did some thinking about Character Classes. Steppe society certainly had some Craftsmen, and a few Merchants. However, most of the Player Characters and major NPC's involved are likely to be Fighters, Rangers, Bards, and Shamans. Unless you specifically have a special "Shaman" Class, take the Cleric and swap around some of the crazy spells for a spell selection more focused on animals, wind, thunder, lightning, spirits, the Spirit World, and knowledge. Also mystical divinations, and some curses. That should set things up pretty well.

Culturally speaking, just about all other classes, such as Paladins, Wizards, and Rogues do not fit. Certainly not as native tribes people living amongst the Steppe tribes. Foreigners, certainly. However, not likely for Steppe Nomad Tribes, as the cultural economy, customs, and social systems, as well as religion, simply don't support such concepts as professions.

In laying out the foundational concepts for my own Steppe-Themed campaign, I have found these restrictions helpful in creating a baseline foundation for immersion and consistency.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The old Ethengar Khanates Gazetteer (Gaz 12) for BECMI has a fairly cool shaman class.  I played one once and it was fun.  That same party, which was created using the gazetteer series, also had a fighter from the Atruaghin Plateau, which were the cultures cribbed from Native America.  It was quite fun.

So while it's not super historical, there are enough cool ideas in that Gazetteer and the AD&D 2e Horde Boxed set to make them worth grabbing if you want D&D/fantasy steppe cultures.

And since we're doing music, one must include the Hu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xZUr0BEfE

These guys were formerly music professors in Mongolia.

And Shark if you haven't seen this film, watch it ASAP: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275083/

The basic plot involves Koreans trying to get back into the good graces of the newly established Ming Dynasty, while also having to deal with remnants of the Mongol Empire.  I don't want to give any spoilers.

For 5e, a kickstarter for https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/grimgolem/wayfarer-nomadic-realms-5e just finished, and the still-in-progress https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/metismediarpg/historica-arcanum-empires-of-the-silk-road-5e has a bit of Central Asian content but seems more focused on Anatolia & the Middle East, including the Assassins as a major plot element (cue other thread).

Many years ago I wrote a Turkic dastan-inspired but set in a lightly-fantastic Taklamakan computer game for a game jam (https://github.com/Naburimannu/beyaz-dag) and would love to go back to that kind of setting. Maybe after retirement? There's so much you could do with the geography & politics of the setting, whether you're being mostly real-world or leaning heavy into the fantastic.

There's always https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/12185/A-Magical-Society-Silk-Road for a very 3E-flavoured view of the region.

Shark, you should check out Sword & Caravan.  The Silk Road is an excellent setting and can give you what you need. 

There's a section in that book about the Taklamakan Desert.  It's a great place for a campaign.  Lots of ruins, in the sands, in the mountains.  You have a couple of different nomad tribes.  Kung fu mystics, gurus, shamen, serpent people, demons, all kinds of off-the-beaten-track elements for your adventures.

Quote from: Persimmon on May 21, 2023, 10:52:57 PM
And Shark if you haven't seen this film, watch it ASAP: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275083/

The basic plot involves Koreans trying to get back into the good graces of the newly established Ming Dynasty, while also having to deal with remnants of the Mongol Empire.  I don't want to give any spoilers.

Thanks, Persimmon! I love "The Warrior". It was an excellent film, I thought. It packs in a lot of action while also having a lot of social stuff rooted in history. One of the main Korean characters is a slave, illustrating the place of slaves in Korean history.

Quote from: SHARK on May 21, 2023, 12:27:22 AM
The idea of integrating foreign, non-steppe tribe characters is certainly possible, but does pose a challenge. Again, there is not typically many strange towns to visit, in order to meet such people. Then, there is the tribal factor. Why would anyone want to befriend YOU? You are a foreigner, and an enemy. You should be killed, or enslaved. That can definitely be an IN-GAME kind of cultural hurdle that poses challenges not typically faced in more standard campaigns.

I feel like the emulated historical era makes a huge difference here -- pre-imperial (before Genghis Khan), during the conquests (Genghis' lifetime), after conquests during the height of the empire, or as the empire is starting to fall.

Before Genghis Khan, the tribes are barbaric - but they weren't at war with everyone. I presume there were still trade relations. Evidently prior Jin emperors had diplomatic relations and would play them off each other. During the conquests they transition from being little-regarded fringe to a world-spanning power, and the enemy of everyone except maybe their subjects.

The height of empire they're rulers of vast territory, so they're rulers of the Yuan dynasty in China and other dynasties elsewhere like in Russia and so forth.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on May 22, 2023, 09:44:01 AM
Shark, you should check out Sword & Caravan.  The Silk Road is an excellent setting and can give you what you need. 

There's a section in that book about the Taklamakan Desert.  It's a great place for a campaign.  Lots of ruins, in the sands, in the mountains.  You have a couple of different nomad tribes.  Kung fu mystics, gurus, shamen, serpent people, demons, all kinds of off-the-beaten-track elements for your adventures.

Greetings!

Thna you, my friend! An excellent suggestion!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkim on May 23, 2023, 10:02:57 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on May 21, 2023, 10:52:57 PM
And Shark if you haven't seen this film, watch it ASAP: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275083/

The basic plot involves Koreans trying to get back into the good graces of the newly established Ming Dynasty, while also having to deal with remnants of the Mongol Empire.  I don't want to give any spoilers.

Thanks, Persimmon! I love "The Warrior". It was an excellent film, I thought. It packs in a lot of action while also having a lot of social stuff rooted in history. One of the main Korean characters is a slave, illustrating the place of slaves in Korean history.

Quote from: SHARK on May 21, 2023, 12:27:22 AM
The idea of integrating foreign, non-steppe tribe characters is certainly possible, but does pose a challenge. Again, there is not typically many strange towns to visit, in order to meet such people. Then, there is the tribal factor. Why would anyone want to befriend YOU? You are a foreigner, and an enemy. You should be killed, or enslaved. That can definitely be an IN-GAME kind of cultural hurdle that poses challenges not typically faced in more standard campaigns.

I feel like the emulated historical era makes a huge difference here -- pre-imperial (before Genghis Khan), during the conquests (Genghis' lifetime), after conquests during the height of the empire, or as the empire is starting to fall.

Before Genghis Khan, the tribes are barbaric - but they weren't at war with everyone. I presume there were still trade relations. Evidently prior Jin emperors had diplomatic relations and would play them off each other. During the conquests they transition from being little-regarded fringe to a world-spanning power, and the enemy of everyone except maybe their subjects.

The height of empire they're rulers of vast territory, so they're rulers of the Yuan dynasty in China and other dynasties elsewhere like in Russia and so forth.

Greetings!

Certainly, Jhkim. I agree. The different periods and time frames all possess a distinctly different feel to them, and approach.

For general campaign purposes, I'm assuming an atmosphere essentially embracing something like 400 A.D. to 1200 A.D., as a kind of foundation. When Genghis Khan arrives--or some analogous figure--everything changes dramatically.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I´d play it for sure if you ever release the material, whether free or for profit, sounds like a blast!

I have never played a game where bartering has been a thing, even though it should have been
even in games set in rural Europe in middle ages. If you can pull it off, that would be a precedent for others
to take inspiration from. There might be some indie games with bartering, though I´v never
encountered one.

Actually, with a quick search, I found these:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/433748/Gray-Bartering-OSR-trading-system
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/games-with-a-good-barter-system.619449/

Also, if you need a great inspiration for the Mongols, this novel series is par none:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conqueror_(novel_series)
https://www.goodreads.com/series/44108-conqueror

very interesting undertaking, Shark. i'll ask if my more history savvy friends who are into Tatar folklore and stuff like historical reenactment maybe have some suggestions on possible source material for you. could be hard to find translated in english, but who knows.

I don't have anything to add but holy fuck is this a good thread.

Quote from: Klava on May 24, 2023, 09:30:48 AM
very interesting undertaking, Shark. i'll ask if my more history savvy friends who are into Tatar folklore and stuff like historical reenactment maybe have some suggestions on possible source material for you. could be hard to find translated in english, but who knows.

Greetings!

That sounds awesome, Klava! Thank you for your help!

Here is an interesting music video on Volga Tatars, a very nice song, and showing various Tatar people and cuture.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK