I shared a picture on facebook and G+ about the project we are working on with Ernie Gygax, and I didn't want to let the RPG Site down on it. So here it is, along with the general "map description" I posted elsewhere:
"This is the map of the Hobby Shop Dungeon's Surface Level as drawn by yours truly, and presented to the players during the games run by Ernie Gygax at Gary Con V, March 14-17, 2013.
This classic, large dungeon at the roots of our game and favorite pastime was played at the Dungeon Hobby Shop of Lake Geneva during the late 70s. Since then, a thousand or more players have plundered its depths and/or met their doom within over the years!
Soon, we hope you too will be able to take part in this shared experience and do with this module as you will. Ernie and I are now working hard to bring this quality, time-honored, old school adventure setting to your own game tables. No release date yet. We will let you know. We just couldn't resist and had to share this photo with you all!"
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/Hobby-GC5-01-800.jpg)
I can't go into spoilers and details and the like, but if you guys want to talk about it, or ask some general questions or whatnot, here's the thread for it here. I hope to post some updates on here when they become relevant and the like. I'm getting busy now (and have been for a while, you might have noticed), so excuse me if I'm not answering questions right away.
Quote from: Benoist;643078I shared a picture on facebook and G+ about the project we are working on with Ernie Gygax, and I didn't want to let the RPG Site down on it. So here it is, along with the general "map description" I posted elsewhere:
"This is the map of the Hobby Shop Dungeon's Surface Level as drawn by yours truly, and presented to the players during the games run by Ernie Gygax at Gary Con V, March 14-17, 2013.
This classic, large dungeon at the roots of our game and favorite pastime was played at the Dungeon Hobby Shop of Lake Geneva during the late 70s. Since then, a thousand or more players have plundered its depths and/or met their doom within over the years!
Soon, we hope you too will be able to take part in this shared experience and do with this module as you will. Ernie and I are now working hard to bring this quality, time-honored, old school adventure setting to your own game tables. No release date yet. We will let you know. We just couldn't resist and had to share this photo with you all!"
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/Hobby-GC5-01-800.jpg)
I can't go into spoilers and details and the like, but if you guys want to talk about it, or ask some general questions or whatnot, here's the thread for it here. I hope to post some updates on here when they become relevant and the like. I'm getting busy now (and have been for a while, you might have noticed), so excuse me if I'm not answering questions right away.
How is "Gary Con V" gaming since "1978"? What does the date refer to? The date the dungeon was made?
Also, cool map :) is there anywhere I can read more about the module?
Quote from: Piestrio;643081How is "Gary Con V" gaming since "1978"? What does the date refer to?
The date refers to the time when the dungeon started to actually be played in the Dungeon Hobby Shop (owned by TSR in the corner of Main Street) of Lake Geneva in 1978. This particular print was used as a mat when the players sat to play with Ernie during the Gary Con V events, hence the "Welcome!" part of it.
Love the map, Benoist! I'm kind of a map geek. Would it derail the thread if I asked for some info on how it was done?
Nice work on the map. It looks amazing!
Edit: Ditto Dana's question.
Quote from: Dana;643084Love the map, Benoist! I'm kind of a map geek. Would it derail the thread if I asked for some info on how it was done?
Not at all. It was done all in pencil work, over three different (letter-sized) sheets of paper. I had to piece the whole map together, and then color it with photoshop. It was actually a marathon, because I had various drafts of it, but no final version before Ernie became so busy with the fire and everything. Then, about a week and a half before Gary Con he talked to me about how this map would really be great to introduce the players to it and all. I was like "OK. Consider it done" and I worked on it for five days, 13 hours a day, I cursed the high heavens and everything (LOL) but it was done on time, thankfully.
It looks gigantic. Did you print it on a plotter or maybe at a print shop?
I scanned the original in very high resolution so Ernie could print it in whatever size he felt was appropriate for the games. This resulted in this gigantic print which is around... checking now... 28 x 42 inches or some such. Ernie printed it himself. All I know is that he went for the higher grade stuff right off the bat with the actual printer, and that the paper alone cost more than 20 bucks to print on.
I would love a copy of the high res scan so I could print out my own poster sized version of this bad boy.
I am also looking forward to the module. :)
Could you give a little history of this dungeon. I haven't read or heard anything about this corner of hobby history until now.
That's pretty cool! I recall the eBay auction with the humongous map of its lowest level (http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=the_collectors_trove) (scroll down for a picture).
Are you releasing the dungeon in a way that's documentarian (like some RJK releases) or in a more updated form?
Also, what can you tell us about the style it is following?
Quote from: Exploderwizard;643128I would love a copy of the high res scan so I could print out my own poster sized version of this bad boy.
I am also looking forward to the module. :)
Thanks! I don't know about making the high resolution pic available (I'm not alone in the boat, and the decision isn't mine to take on my own), but you are not the only one making a request to have access to this kind of blown up map of the surface. Now, I have no idea how that'd be feasible, the kind of material troubles that would be involved in producing these kinds of products and the like, but I'll discuss the possibility with Ernie.
Quote from: estar;643131Could you give a little history of this dungeon. I haven't read or heard anything about this corner of hobby history until now.
Sure. Ernie Gygax was working for some time in the TSR Dungeon Hobby Shop, which was basically the hobby shop owned by TSR occupying the ground level of the Hotel Clair on the corner of Main Street in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin (where the headquarters of TSR were located then). Here's a shot of the Hotel Clair:
(http://www.steinerag.com/flw/Artifact%20Images/8%20HotelClair2004B.jpg)
The Dungeon Hobby Shop was where you see the "chocolates" shop on this pic. The editors for TSR had their offices upstairs, if I remember correctly.
In any case. Ernie decided to run games in the store. Terry Kuntz (brother of Rob Kuntz, one of the original players of the game as well, who worked at the store too at the time) had done some unkeyed maps (the first levels of the dungeon, the big map that Melan linked having been drawn by Ernie himself) for a dungeon he never ran. Not having done anything with it, he gave the maps to Ernie who then populated, keyed the whole thing and basically came up with what became the "Hobby Shop Dungeon".
The Dungeon was played in a variety of venues, starting with the Dungeon Hobby Shop in 1977/78. At the time lots of sailors on the Great Lakes came to buy games at the store, so many gamers played through it at some point or other. People like E. Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz and other friends and TSR alumni would also explore its depths.
The Dungeon then was used in Margaret Weis's store after the TSR years, if I remember correctly (can't remember the name of store), in home games, in conventions, and on and on, up to this day. Hundreds of players have explored it. More than a thousand, as Ernie puts it.
Quote from: Melan;643135That's pretty cool! I recall the eBay auction with the humongous map of its lowest level (http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=the_collectors_trove) (scroll down for a picture).
That map. That is Ernie's work. It is a thing of beauty. That picture really doesn't do it justice. Ernie sent me some surviving copies for safe-keeping after his apartment's fire (they still smell like smoke; he could grab them in extremis before rushing out the door). The map's been badly damaged over the years, but you can still read a lot of stuff on it. It will be an epic challenge to work on it, but we're not quite there yet. I'm both excited and afraid at the prospect. :D
Quote from: Melan;643135Are you releasing the dungeon in a way that's documentarian (like some RJK releases) or in a more updated form?
The latter, e.g. a more updated form. The point of publishing this dungeon for us is to share this dungeon setting with gamers, to actually see it played and enjoyed by a variety of people. Both Ernie and I are very conscious of the value of the original and that the published version should be as genuine as possible as well, however.
As we started work on the dungeon, we had to consider several problems: some maps were damaged in some areas, some parts of the keys were missing, for instance. So we would have some solid renovation work to do right from the start.
Working on the maps, I started to notice some mistakes, such as entrances and exits not actually lining up from one level to the next, those kinds of things. We also talked about the dungeon for hours, and basically I would ask questions like "why is this guy there?" and the like, so that the implicit, the stuff Ernie never wrote on the keys, and that would completely fly over the head of a DM who knows next to nothing about this dungeon, could readily be accessed and understood before running games with it.
Reworking the maps I made sense of some of the physics of the place (things like siphons, river networks, stone foundations for the keep underground and the like). That reconfiguration led to some areas that needed to be filled, map flows that needed to be fixed, etc, all the while trying to incorporate all of the original material and showcase it in a manner that is as authentic as we could possibly present it.
Now the actual essence of the original maps we are keeping as genuine as we can. That is, if you have say a shrine in an area in the NW corner of the map of level 1, you'll see that same shrine in the NW corner of the new map as well. By comparison, it is infinitely more genuine than something like the Ruins of Greyhawk was to the original, or even Castle Zagyg, for that matter.
You can see an example of that with this map of the surface you see here. . .
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/Hobby-GC5-01-800.jpg)
. . . when compared to the original you can see on that picture:
(http://thecollectorstrove.com/picture/dcp03427.jpg?pictureId=4862201)
You can see some of the modifications that were made between the two versions, like modifying the waterworks around the keep for reasons I can't really get into here (spoilers), all the while keeping the essence of the keep and its character as true to the original as we could.
The result should be a dungeon setting that can be approached in a number of different of ways by different types of DMs, so they can run their own games out of it, however they see fit, take apart the levels, use or not use this or that random table and whatnot, play the whole thing as close to the original as they want, or not, and so on.
The point ultimately is for this thing to be played. Not to be kept in a museum behind some bullet proof glass.
We're working to make that happen, and to make the material as readily usable as we can.
Quote from: Melan;643135Also, what can you tell us about the style it is following?
In terms of vibe, it is a classic large dungeon set up: it's a keep lost in the wilderness. There are dungeons under the keep which have been created by some powerful magic-user or entity in the past, for reasons that are not readily known. It features a progressive approach through its levels, in terms of difficulty as well as the crazy factor (that is, the deeper you get, the more likely you are to come across some weird stuff). Ernie was a teenager at the time and was modeling a lot of his stuff on his dad's Greyhawk, and you can feel the influence here and there. It's got the meat and potatoes "vanilla" experience of the game, and some weirder stuff besides. It is meant as a dynamic place, with various groups and individuals with different goals and interests in being where they are in the first place.
In terms of writing, we're trying to make it approachable, spelling out the implicit, presenting it in a way that conveys the dynamism, history and mystery of the place, while at the same time leaving a lot of room for the DM to breathe and shape it, retool it, rework it however s/he wants. You can get a sense of what I'm talking about by checking my sample Bandit level in the advice to build the mega-dungeon linked in my sig. In terms of writing style, as far as the keys are concerned, it'll probably look similar, once everything's said and done, drafts have been revised and corrected and edited a dozen times and all that jazz.
Quote from: Benoist;643078I shared a picture on facebook and G+ about the project we are working on with Ernie Gygax, and I didn't want to let the RPG Site down on it. So here it is, along with the general "map description" I posted elsewhere:
"This is the map of the Hobby Shop Dungeon's Surface Level as drawn by yours truly, and presented to the players during the games run by Ernie Gygax at Gary Con V, March 14-17, 2013.
This classic, large dungeon at the roots of our game and favorite pastime was played at the Dungeon Hobby Shop of Lake Geneva during the late 70s. Since then, a thousand or more players have plundered its depths and/or met their doom within over the years!
Soon, we hope you too will be able to take part in this shared experience and do with this module as you will. Ernie and I are now working hard to bring this quality, time-honored, old school adventure setting to your own game tables. No release date yet. We will let you know. We just couldn't resist and had to share this photo with you all!"
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/Hobby-GC5-01-800.jpg)
I can't go into spoilers and details and the like, but if you guys want to talk about it, or ask some general questions or whatnot, here's the thread for it here. I hope to post some updates on here when they become relevant and the like. I'm getting busy now (and have been for a while, you might have noticed), so excuse me if I'm not answering questions right away.
Awesome, man.
Quote from: 1989;643227Awesome, man.
Thanks, mate!
I'm looking forward to this being released. If it would lend itself well to a short-term PbP, I might try to run it.
Quote from: Dana;643437I'm looking forward to this being released. If it would lend itself well to a short-term PbP, I might try to run it.
I can't see how the setting wouldn't be able to support that kind of game play. You could either have the game function on an expedition basis, and have each PbP game basically be one particular delve in the dungeon, kind of like open table games function, which each particular session being a delve of its own. Or the characters could have some specific objective they need to find or situation to solve having to do with delving into the dungeon, so they get in, find this or that MacGuffin, solve this or that problematic, eliminate this or that guy, whatever, and then get out as quickly as they can. Or some other set up that doesn't come to my mind right away.
This could be fun to play. :)
Quote from: Benoist;643439I can't see how the setting wouldn't be able to support that kind of game play. You could either have the game function on an expedition basis, and have each PbP game basically be one particular delve in the dungeon, kind of like open table games function, which each particular session being a delve of its own. Or the characters could have some specific objective they need to find or situation to solve having to do with delving into the dungeon, so they get in, find this or that MacGuffin, solve this or that problematic, eliminate this or that guy, whatever, and then get out as quickly as they can. Or some other set up that doesn't come to my mind right away.
This could be fun to play. :)
That's the kind of thing I'm thinking of -- more of an episodic format where the cast of characters can change between treks into the dungeon. It doesn't *have* to change, but the option's there.
Quote from: Benoist;643078I shared a picture on facebook and G+ about the project we are working on with Ernie Gygax, and I didn't want to let the RPG Site down on it. So here it is
I concur. That
is awesome.
Good luck.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;643980I concur. That is awesome.
Good luck.
Thank you, DW. I am glad you like it. It is some hard work. But we love it, and we want to share it. We will.
That's a fascinating piece of history, Benoist!
RPGPundit
The Hobby Shop Dungeon now has its own Facebook page, for information, updates, previews, musings, behind-the-scenes stuff and the like.
https://www.facebook.com/hobbyshopdungeon
I missed this thread in April; glad it's been necro'd. :)
Great map, Benoist! And some interesting TSR history as well.
Quote from: Akrasia;680918I missed this thread in April; glad it's been necro'd. :)
Great map, Benoist! And some interesting TSR history as well.
Thank you. I appreciate it. :)
Well done.
This is quite interesting I have been following it on facebook, but may have missed some details. Can you elaborate on what this project will be? Is it a single release for example or an ongoing line of material.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;684128This is quite interesting I have been following it on facebook, but may have missed some details. Can you elaborate on what this project will be? Is it a single release for example or an ongoing line of material.
It will be a line of game products centered in and around the Hobby Shop Dungeon (named in different ways by different folks in the game world - you could name it your way in your home campaign), which you can then play entirely as-is with the regional setting around it, or plug in whole or in parts in your home campaigns. It is a product built to put you DM in charge of the game world, to make the dungeon yours, however you want to run it. There will be products, including at least one boxed set covering the framework of the dungeon proper, and then modules that are either linked to the dungeon geographically, historically, and otherwise, using a well, modular approach, for lack of a better word.
Exactly how all this will be packaged and presented is too early for me to pin down here. What I can say, since Ernie has spoken about it before, is that we want the boxed set I just talked about to be given special treatment, with fold-up maps covered with a plastic film reminiscent of the maps of the Empire of the Petal Throne boxed set, if you are familiar with it, maps which you can actually use at the game table without being afraid to wreck them with a spill of Mountain Dew, extensive descriptions of the first levels of the dungeons, the ruined keep, the settlements and region around it.
This is an enormous undertaking, but we're taking it on, and we won't quit. The world can come crashing down and swarms of meteors rain from the sky, but you are going to see it released. Our projection at the moment is a Christmas 2014 release for the boxed set. Our first module will appear in Gygax Magazine, Issue 3 (next issue, as of this writing). It will be an introduction to the dungeon with elements that plug into its history and allows characters to get involved there (or not) if you so choose.
I'll share the news on this thread in order to keep it all together and allow for discussions about this.
I know at this point some issues of Gygax Magazine Issue #3 are in the mail, and I can announce that Ernie Gygax and I are launching the Hobby Shop Dungeon with a feature module within it.
I'll share the blurb with you, to give you an idea. I'll come back, share more information and answer questions, if any, later on.
QuoteThe forlorn dwelling of the Stone-Cutter Dwarves has been found somewhere in the wilderness at the base of the Bitter Peaks. It is rumored the clan once dealt with the renowned mage Nester De Guyx whose mazes underground became the stage of many a legend still remembered to this day.
Maybe your party is heading there searching for traces of the mage's presence, some information or clues that could help you survive in the Dungeon's depths. Maybe you have some personal connection with the dwarves, or seek to know more about the history of this world. Or maybe you simply are searching for the treasures the dwarves could have left behind. Whatever the case, glory, or death, awaits.
Take heart, for this is where a new life of adventure begins!
Written by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. and Benoist Poiré, illustrated by industry legend Jim Holloway, THE MARMOREAL TOMB OF GARN PAT'UUL is a role playing game module for First Edition compatible rules, the feature piece of Gygax Magazine Issue #3.
Designed for levels 1 to 3, THE MARMOREAL TOMB OF GARN PAT'UUL can be used in a variety ways, straight from the page or with home-brewed modifications. It can be used in different game worlds, and can serve as an introduction to The Hobby Shop Dungeon, a brand new collection of adventure game products centered around the dungeon and setting created by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. in 1978, and developed today in concert with Benoist Poiré.
The adventure begins. Are you ready to play your part?
Pack your gear and step through the threshold with Gygax Magazine Issue #3.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/578547_453585698085528_598528958_n.jpg)
Benoist gifted me with an advance copy PDF, and I've been running HSD0 with my group, using Swords & Wizardry Complete. We've done two sessions and it's a fun dungeon (as my players recognized, even as they bemoaned the high body count). I've posted a short and AP report here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=710563#post710563).
Quote from: The Butcher;710564Benoist gifted me with an advance copy PDF, and I've been running HSD0 with my group, using Swords & Wizardry Complete. We've done two sessions and it's a fun dungeon (as my players recognized, even as they bemoaned the high body count). I've posted a short and AP report here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=710563#post710563).
Cool! I had not noticed at first! Thanks for the link! I commented on there too. :)
The Marmoreal Tomb is compatible with all TSR iterations of the game and variants. So whether you play 0e, 1e, 2e, Holmes-Moldvay-Mentzer blue and red boxes, Lamentation of the Flame Princess, OSRIC, Swords & Wizardry, Adventurer Conqueror King System, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea, and on and on, you should get good game play out of it, perhaps reskinning stuff here and there for your game, of course.
Also, the layout of the Tomb welcomes additions and modifications on the DM's part. Some advice is provided with the module in order to do so. So you can spice it up or down, make it more or less gonzo, all that with a ready adventure site and framework to play with.
Or you can play it as is, of course, like others have done, such as the Butcher here.
For the same reasons of layout and the way the inhabitants of the Tomb interact with each other, it would be fairly easy to switch to an encounter and CR set up more in tune with modern iterations of the game.
Likewise, I've taken some of our discussions on the RPG Site to heart, and we've made sure with Ernie that the module could be bent out of its original shape in order to play some fairly different games with a base to work with. What I mean by this is that it'd be fairly trivial to identify stuff like Fronts and get a Dungeon World game off the ground with it. Or Torchbearer, if you're into that game.
Going through the Tomb with a DCC RPG level 0 funnel group would be a blast, I think.
Oh. Did I mention that it could be expended upon to plug your own stuff next to and under the Tomb to treat it as a start for your own mega-dungeon too? You could do that as well.
Sounds very cool. Looking forward to checking it out!
Time to start getting Gygax Magazine. :)
Quote from: Exploderwizard;710820Time to start getting Gygax Magazine. :)
Yeah, I'm totally checking out this issue.
Thanks guys! Issue 3 of Gygax Magazine, the one featuring the module in question, has started to be mailed out to subscribers. The Gygax Magazine website should be updated shortly to feature Issue 3. Digital copies will be available after that, but I have to tell you: the map of the Marmoreal Tomb is full color on a fold-up two page spread, and I expect it to look good in the print magazine.
If you know my maps, you will have an idea what to expect.
Scott Tailor, art director extraordinaire, holding Gygax Magazine Issue 3 in his hands!
(http://gp-adventures.com/images-main/img-web/Scott-GM.jpg)
I just did an interview with our own Brendan Davis on the Bedrock Blog yesterday. We talk about the Marmoreal Tomb, module design, the world of The Hobby Shop Dungeon, and what to expect from Ernie and I, and our partners, at GP Adventures.
The link to the interview: http://thebedrockblog.blogspot.ca/2013/11/interview-benoist-poire.html
Ok, honestly now; how much of this is Ernie's and how much of it is really just yours with a "gygax" attached to it?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;713085Ok, honestly now; how much of this is Ernie's and how much of it is really just yours with a "gygax" attached to it?
RPGPundit
Heres a better question Pundit. Who gives a shit if its either. If it was EGG I might give it a look just out of curiosity of what one of the
creators might have done. If not, well how does it stand on its own merits. Who wrote it be damned. Thats inconsequential.
Quote from: RPGPundit;713085Ok, honestly now; how much of this is Ernie's and how much of it is really just yours with a "gygax" attached to it?
RPGPundit
50/50. We go over some of the details in the interview with Brendan, if you haven't read it already. Ernie and I meet three times a week at a bare minimum. It's been going on for more than a year now. We have a great working relationship, where one isn't afraid to tell the other this or that idea rocks or sucks and vice versa. I could split hairs and write minutes of our meetings in order to convince you, but suffice to say that yes, The Marmoreal Tomb is Ernie's work as much as it is mine.
Quote from: Benoist;713135I could split hairs and write minutes of our meetings in order to convince you, but suffice to say that yes, The Marmoreal Tomb is Ernie's work as much as it is mine.
As secretary of a club- writing minutes..... ugh...
Looking forward to the adventure.
Quote from: RunningLaser;713165As secretary of a club- writing minutes..... ugh...
I easily have over a hundred pages of notes scribbled while working on the first levels of the dungeon alone - and that's just the stuff with abbreviations galore, partial sentences and all that. To keep actual minutes we'd need a third person for sure. :D
Quote from: RunningLaser;713165Looking forward to the adventure.
Thanks mate! I appreciate it, and hope you'll like the results. I see some subscribers have received their copy - the pictures are popping up on social media.
Quote from: Benoist;713332I see some subscribers have received their copy - the pictures are popping up on social media.
I've been champing at the bit to get my mitts on the PDF. C'mon team TSR!
Quote from: Benoist;712621I just did an interview with our own Brendan Davis on the Bedrock Blog yesterday. We talk about the Marmoreal Tomb, module design, the world of The Hobby Shop Dungeon, and what to expect from Ernie and I, and our partners, at GP Adventures.
The link to the interview: http://thebedrockblog.blogspot.ca/2013/11/interview-benoist-poire.html
Good interview chaps !
Quote from: Eisenmann;713342I've been champing at the bit to get my mitts on the PDF. C'mon team TSR!
It'll be available soon.
Quote from: Sean !;713361Good interview chaps !
Thanks!
I just want to let everyone know that some Print copies of Gygax Magazine #3 are available for sale on Paizo.com and Nobleknight.com right now.
Quote from: Ronin;713108Heres a better question Pundit. Who gives a shit if its either. If it was EGG I might give it a look just out of curiosity of what one of the creators might have done. If not, well how does it stand on its own merits. Who wrote it be damned. Thats inconsequential.
I think in some cases the invoking of the "gygax" name is a technique to increase attention; ironically, in some of the cases I've seen so far (like in the case of Adventures Dark & Deep, its totally un-necessary since as you say, the product would have stood on its own right without having to engage in fetishistic invocation.
Now, I trust Benoist when he says that Ernie is actually playing a significant part in the product; I was just curious because I trust Benoist to be a decent old-school writer, while I wasn't so sure about one of Gary Gygax's kids bringing anything more to the table than in other instances where someone drags out the offspring of someone famous and dead to add legitimacy to their product. So I felt it was a legitimate and fair question to ask.
RPGPundit
Green doesn't suit you Pundit.
I'm sure it will work splendidly with ...Arrows of Indra
I don't resent the question so much as it took me completely by surprise.
It's like a catch 22: if you ghost write something with someone famous then nobody recognizes your work and you're fucked, but if the guy you're working with actually gives you a 50/50 partnership as Ernie did and you go about building a whole series of products and so on together, then of course you must be doing all the work and sucking on the teat of the famous guy.
Just can't win sometimes.
I'm just glad the question came out of the RPG Site where I could actually answer point blank, and glad the Pundit is taking my word for it. So thank you for the question, Pundit, and thank you for trusting I'm not just pulling your leg, which I wouldn't.
Quote from: Planet Algol;713689I'm sure it will work splendidly with ...Arrows of Indra
That actually could be VERY interesting in my mind, because of the shift of cultural references involved. I'm sure it could work, mind you. It's just. . . man, I wish someone would try. I just don't have the time to do it myself, though I'll actually be using Raiders of R'lyeh in a Hobby Shop Dungeon playtest myself!
BTW, this is the gatefold introduction to the Marmoreal Tomb of Garn Pat'uul.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1463195_459932634117501_606374727_n.jpg)
And this is a preview of the map on the other side, in Gygax Magazine #3:
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/996683_460371674073597_2059992983_n.jpg)
Depressing realization that nobody under 30 would get a joke about D&D centerfolds.
Quote from: Benoist;713702BTW, this is the gatefold introduction to the Marmoreal Tomb of Garn Pat'uul.
OOooh. I loves me some Holloway art.
Quote from: Roger the GS;713711Depressing realization that nobody under 30 would get a joke about D&D centerfolds.
:rotfl:
Quote from: Roger the GS;713711Depressing realization that nobody under 30 would get a joke about D&D centerfolds.
But then, if I judge the photo correctly it isn't a
centerfold, anyway.
Love that map!
When can I buy this?
Quote from: Bill;713807Love that map!
When can I buy this?
Thanks!
You can get it right now on Paizo.com and Nobleknight.com (the last two items on the list, for MINT/new and EX conditions):
http://paizo.com/products/btpy931i?Gygax-Magazine-3-Print
https://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137428590_A_ManufacturerID_E_2145086902_A_CategoryID_E_16
Thanks for the link Benoist- just ordered it from NK.:)
Bah, I was hoping to have this already - I ordered it weeks ago and it turns out the order was stuck in the works.
Congrats, dude. That looks... just spiffy. Love the map.
Just ordered issues 1-3 and subscribed. Can't wait!
Quote from: Benoist;713695I don't resent the question so much as it took me completely by surprise.
It's like a catch 22: if you ghost write something with someone famous then nobody recognizes your work and you're fucked, but if the guy you're working with actually gives you a 50/50 partnership as Ernie did and you go about building a whole series of products and so on together, then of course you must be doing all the work and sucking on the teat of the famous guy.
Just can't win sometimes.
I'm just glad the question came out of the RPG Site where I could actually answer point blank, and glad the Pundit is taking my word for it. So thank you for the question, Pundit, and thank you for trusting I'm not just pulling your leg, which I wouldn't.
I'm sure its a question you're going to be asked more than once. Ernie Gygax is, I think, mostly known for being slightly less well known than Luke Gygax, who isn't well known; and for that recent fire and the fundraiser he needed after the fact. Until now, I for one had no idea he had his own dungeon.
And honestly, OHT is wrong, its not an envy thing. I don't think your position is in any way enviable, because of the hassle it will cause you. I know from firsthand experience that its not a fun experience to be accused of profiteering from the dead when what you're really doing has nothing to do with that.
RPGPundit
Beautiful map!
Quote from: RPGPundit;714996I'm sure its a question you're going to be asked more than once. Ernie Gygax is, I think, mostly known for being slightly less well known than Luke Gygax, who isn't well known; and for that recent fire and the fundraiser he needed after the fact. Until now, I for one had no idea he had his own dungeon.
I'm not sure about the fame and who's more famous than whom. I don't think I'd be a good judge of that for being so involved now.
I think you are right when talking about the dungeon. It is known in some quarters - you can still find questions that were asked about the dungeon hobby shop dungeon to E. Gary Gygax for instance - but it is plain that the vast majority of gamers have not heard of it, which is a shame really! The word is spreading, and I hope our work will in due time correct what I see as an injustice. It is a very cool dungeon, and it deserves to not only be known, but played.
Quote from: RPGPundit;714996And honestly, OHT is wrong, its not an envy thing. I don't think your position is in any way enviable, because of the hassle it will cause you. I know from firsthand experience that its not a fun experience to be accused of profiteering from the dead when what you're really doing has nothing to do with that.
RPGPundit
I'm sure you're right and that's going to be thrown in my face from time to time. But compared to the benefits, learning about the game, working on the game, getting to hone my skills, getting to know so many good people and making friends through this project, getting to work with them, getting to put this whole thing together and share it out there, and then seeing gamers take that and doing their own things with it. . . that's a very cool series of rewards for me.
I'll take all the shit that goes along with the job, if that means I can keep doing what I love.
Quote from: RPGPundit;714998Beautiful map!
Thank you! I appreciate it, Pundit!
I just wanna say grats on the excellent project Benny, it's fantastic to see you working with the Gygax mag fellers, and the sample of this dungeon in my latest issue of Gygax mag is pretty dang awesome as well.
Edit: Just to add my 2 cents to the discussion about the "fame" of the Gygax fellers and stuff. I've only been exposed to them through social media, and mostly through a connection with their sister Cindy, but honestly they've always come across more to me as just another couple of gamer dudes than anybody "famous", or who thinks they're "famous", or related to someone "famous". In that respect, as a long time gamer I'd expect EGG has some pretty good ideas about putting together this old dungeon he's been runnin' awhile. I can say it looks pretty dang good so far if the Gygax teaser is any indication.
Quote from: Benoist;710939Thanks guys! Issue 3 of Gygax Magazine, the one featuring the module in question, has started to be mailed out to subscribers. The Gygax Magazine website should be updated shortly to feature Issue 3. Digital copies will be available after that, but I have to tell you: the map of the Marmoreal Tomb is full color on a fold-up two page spread, and I expect it to look good in the print magazine.
If you know my maps, you will have an idea what to expect.
It looks fantastic in print.
Quote from: Sigmund;715366I just wanna say grats on the excellent project Benny, it's fantastic to see you working with the Gygax mag fellers, and the sample of this dungeon in my latest issue of Gygax mag is pretty dang awesome as well.
Thank you! I'm very glad you like the module! I hope you get good mileage out of it! Ernie and I are planning some add-ons for it as well.
Quote from: Sigmund;715370It looks fantastic in print.
Speaking of which! The print magazine can be ordered from the Gygax Magazine website now (better for TSR, no middle man): http://store.gygaxmagazine.com/
And the PDF is available on DriveThru here: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/123781/Gygax-magazine-issue-%233
Is this the thingy where Muulu gets a mention?
Quote from: One Horse Town;717115Is this the thingy where Muulu gets a mention?
Nope! Muulu gets a mention in the Hyperborean Labs of AFS Mag #3 (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=26815) (Area 7 to be precise)! :)
Another review was posted on the Ultanya blog. The link: http://www.ultanya.com/2013/12/gygax-magazine-issue-3-review.html
QuoteMy favorite part of the issue without a doubt is The Marmoreal Tomb of Garn Pat'uul by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. and Benoist Poiré. No sooner than opening the map and reading the background was I warped back to my earliest days of gaming.
After thirty years of various iterations of the D&D game and hundreds of sessions, reading The Marmoreal Tomb of Garn Pat'uul was like riding an old bike. Everything from the style of writing, presentation and awesome artwork of Jim Holloway – this is a gem. What a great adventure which has all the best aspects of the old school but is polished enough for the new school.
I can hardly wait for the module HSD1 – THE HOBBY SHOP DUNGEON, to be published by TSR in late 2014. I think the best thing about Gygax magazine is it has created another chance for new gamers to discover the hobby. Just seeing my 7 year old son pick up the magazine randomly one day and ask relentless questions about it is proof positive.
Well done! Its a pity The Butcher didn't get me a copy of this.
Quote from: RPGPundit;720259Well done! Its a pity The Butcher didn't get me a copy of this.
I purchased all three and it is definitely worth having. The first issue is mostly meh but the second is better, and the third is way better still. Plus it is the first time in a long time I remember being eager to look at the ads. Most of them are relevant or of interest.
Quote from: RPGPundit;720259Well done! Its a pity The Butcher didn't get me a copy of this.
Yeah, I screwed the pooch there. My bad.
The empanadas were great, though. :D
Just browsed through the tables of contents of the issues over at Paizo and bought the whole batch. These look really cool.
Now if I can just make sure RL doesn't intrude on my gaming time again I'll actually be able to read them!
Quote from: Dana;720387Just browsed through the tables of contents of the issues over at Paizo and bought the whole batch. These look really cool.
Now if I can just make sure RL doesn't intrude on my gaming time again I'll actually be able to read them!
Priorities, woman, priorities!
Man, that looks awesome.
Just seeing that three-column layout in Gygax magazine reminds of a time when all was well with RPGs.
Quote from: 1989;720408Man, that looks awesome.
Just seeing that three-column layout in Gygax magazine reminds of a time when all was well with RPGs.
Cry harder.
Quote from: The Butcher;720372Yeah, I screwed the pooch there. My bad.
The empanadas were great, though. :D
Yes they were. I went there again for New Year; one of the only businesses of any kind that stays open on Jan 1st. Talked about it in my blog.
Quote from: 1989;720408Man, that looks awesome.
Just seeing that three-column layout in Gygax magazine reminds of a time when all was well with RPGs.
Come on. You know you wanna. :D
Quote from: RPGPundit;720259Well done! Its a pity The Butcher didn't get me a copy of this.
Quote from: The Butcher;720372Yeah, I screwed the pooch there. My bad.
The empanadas were great, though. :D
Bad, bad butcher! :D
I'll get a copy to you somehow, Pundit. I'll check the charges to mail it and see if they're not bonkers.
Quote from: Benoist;720995Bad, bad butcher! :D
I'll get a copy to you somehow, Pundit. I'll check the charges to mail it and see if they're not bonkers.
Odds are they will be.
Some news! Our website is now live at GP Adventures.com.
The Press Release:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, May 2, 2014
GP-ADVENTURES.COM WEBSITE LAUNCHES
LAKE GENEVA, WI – GP Adventures LLC is proud to announce the launch of its online store and website at http://www.gp-adventures.com
Following their critically acclaimed module MARMOREAL TOMB OF GARN PAT'UUL, the introduction to THE HOBBY SHOP DUNGEON™ campaign and setting, Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. and Benoist Poiré created GP Adventures LLC in order to publish game modules, supplements, and books of general interest for the tabletop role-playing games hobby, with the intent to bring the Lake Geneva gaming tradition into the 21st century.
"This is a big step for us," declares Benoist Poiré, co-founder of the company with Ernest Gygax. "We have multiple modules in the works, including Ernest's Hobby Shop Dungeon itself. The website gives us the legitimacy and presence online we require in the short term, allowing us to launch our business and release materials to gamers immediately, while at the same time guaranteeing our independence over the long term."
"We already have two main products available for customers," adds Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. "The first is my family story, SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS, which I am ecstatic to be able to share with gamers, and the Gary Con VI PDF preview of HAUNTED HALLS OF THE BEGGAR KING, which provides an entirely playable, self-contained inside look into our design process at GP."
Both founders rejoice at the idea to share their modules, dungeons and settings with gamers, regardless of boundaries, game system affiliations or play styles. "Everyone can enjoy the games. You don't have to choose between this or that version, this or that school. There are no age requirements, no purity tests, no discriminating factors at play here: We can all like a variety of games and play them with a variety of different people. All that really matters is a desire to have fun together around a game table."
The website and online store can be found at http://www.gp-adventures.com
ABOUT GP ADVENTURES LLC
GP Adventures LLC is the publishing company founded by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. and Benoist Poiré based in Lake Geneva, WI.
GP Adventures LLC aims at supporting the local gaming tradition that birthed the entire hobby of tabletop role playing games, and bringing it forward into the twenty-first century. To that end, GP Adventures LLC will bring forward multiple products and offerings, including fiction and non-fiction adding some context to the history of tabletop role playing games and the Lake Geneva gaming tradition, as well as game aids, modules and settings revisited with new, solid and fresh approaches that do the tradition justice and empower referees to take charge of their own games and unlock their imaginations.
For more information, visit the company's a website and online store at http://www.gp-adventures.com
ABOUT THE HOBBY SHOP DUNGEON™
THE HOBBY SHOP DUNGEON™ is an adventure game setting originally developed by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. in 1978 while working as a clerk for the fondly-remembered Dungeon hobby shop of Lake Geneva, WI. Inspired by the many games and campaigns he played with his father and many friends, and aided by incomplete maps initially drawn by Terry Kuntz, Ernest came up with a large sprawling dungeon complex that could be used to run games at the store. Since then, thousands of players have explored its depths, including TSR alumni, family members, customers and gamer friends, up to 22 players per sitting! It has been played in a variety of venues including Margaret Weis's and Don Perrin's Game Guild, in California's Dungeons & Dragons Entertainment division, as a special event for game conventions and many more besides.
This is this particular setting that GP Adventures LLC plans to gradually reveal to the gaming aficionado, first through a collection of modules taking place around the dungeon itself, and later through the publication of the many levels within.
ABOUT SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS
SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS is a family tale set in a feudal Japan-that-never-was, a legend about courage and growing up to face one's own responsibilities in the world. It is a story rooted in the creative landscape that informed the creation of the world's premier role-playing game which Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. wants to gift to gamers far and wide so they too can share it with their own children and families.
Not exactly a gaming product (this is a children's book at its core), but since it was created by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. based on the bed time stories he listened to as a child, it does speak of the micro-history of the game, the creative landscape that created it, and will ultimately tie into the Hobby Shop Dungeon world and modules.
Bob Brinkman reviewed SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS (http://www.gp-adventures.com/product-category/fiction/) on GoodReads:
"As a gamer, I must admit, I never once wondered what a Gygax family bedtime story would be like. Wow, I missed out! At least, I missed out until now."
"Set in a mythical version of feudal Japan, the story revolves around the exploits of Sammi-Zowa while also tying in to the adventures of his grandfather before him. There are so many great bits and pieces to this tale, I just couldn't resist it and it left me wanting to read more about that world."
"This book is just great fun. Originally presented as a bedtime story to the grandsons, the book expands on the story with brilliant illustrations from British artist Simon Todd. The words and art blend together seamlessly, presenting a unified whole that is both entertaining and stimulating to the imagination."
"I think I'd much prefer to read this book aloud than just sit and read it, and that is probably how it is truly intended to be experienced. This fun tale has great values (without being preachy) while giving a full back story and an adventure tale."
"So yes, high marks and recommendations. Any gamer is going to love this book, any gamer with children should, flat-out, not be without this book."
Source: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/900848249
From the Product Description:
A Child's Tale by Ernest Gary Gygax Jr., Nerissa Montie and Simon Todd.
79-page PDF Digital Offering. A family story of courage in the face of adversity and growing up to the world set in a medieval Japan that never was, this story was conceived by Ernest G. Gygax for his grandson, Sam, and directly inspired by the bed time stories his father used to tell him as a child. It is a rare piece of gaming history Ernest wanted to share with gamers so they too could share it with their own children and grandchildren. Part of the Hobby Shop Dungeon world and setting.
Hearken back to a day when a younger Gary Gygax ate up tale after tale of Japanese folklore. These stories helped inspire fantastical worlds peopled with creatures and humans both honourable and devious.
Click on the bedside lamp and sit alongside Gary as he spins dreams of heroic exploit and dastardly deeds for his wide-eyed sons. Ernest Gygax Jr. and brother, Luke, starred in many of these nightly tales as Gary dotingly nurtured their imaginations.
Lean against the armchair of Ernest as he continues the tradition for the next generation. An ancient Nippon that never really was swirls through the carefully-crafted bedside yarns for his grandchildren. Ernest invites you to partake in the stories of brave children and crafty monsters that he has been telling for years. Shared here, for the first time, is his bed time tale about young Sammi-Zowa's first adventure.
Whisked from a comfortable life of sword-practice and farming, Sammi-Zowa faces two possibilities—waiting for the samurai warriors to assemble and save his kidnapped grandparents or, more riskily, ride forth himself to face the ire and might of two mighty red dragons. The strong love Sammi-Zowa has for his grandparents guides his decision. He ventures down the road to an uncertain fate.
Ernest Gygax Jr.'s tale, spruced and polished by Nerissa Montie and charmingly illustrated by Simon Todd, is a tale for the ages. You'll find yourself drawn into this story that will speak to a child in your life or to the child within yourself.
"A wonderful story with lots of surprises. It's a must-read if you enjoy fantasy." James M. Ward, Director of Creative Development, TSR Inc. Author, Random House, Del Rey, Bantam, Western Publishing, Marvel & DC Comics.
"Fun story. The Illustrations are stunning!" Margaret Weis, co-author, Dragonlance Chronicles, President and Owner, Margaret Weis Productions.
"[The] Illustrations are charming and the writing is reminiscent of that of the master storyteller himself, E. Gary Gygax." Pamela Mohan, Editor, Wizards of the Coast, Independent Writing and Editing Professional.
"Utterly timeless. Offers a glimpse into the world of all our childhoods. Beautifully rendered by Ernie Gygax." Stephen Chenault, The Troll Lord of Troll Lord Games.
"Ernie was a guest/ghost writer for his father on the Sagard novels. After this story, Gary must be grinning right now from his vantage point. Ernie you've gotten to be a scary good writer." Flint Dille, creative collaborator (screenwriter, novelist, game designer, etc.) on the Transformers, Chronicles of Riddick, Sin City and Diablo III properties.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1493184_528860800558017_2398548744565102741_n.jpg) (http://www.gp-adventures.com/product-category/fiction/)
If any of you have any questions for me about what we're doing, the products, the Hobby Shop Dungeon, its world or whatnot, I'm game.
I'll talk more later about the Haunted Halls of the Beggar King.
I have a question- when is the Hobby Shop Dungeon coming out?
Quote from: RunningLaser;747249I have a question- when is the Hobby Shop Dungeon coming out?
We were thinking at the end of this year, but in the meantime we learned the hard way how we needed to line up the ducks and proceed carefully. Now, it looks like some time early in 2015. It all depends on how successful our current efforts prove to be. The greater the success, the better we'll be able to prepare the launch of the Hobby Shop Dungeon proper, and the quicker it'll come to people's game tables.
Pieces of the world around are being released as modules themselves right now. The Haunted Halls of the Beggar King preview (http://www.gp-adventures.com/shop/haunted-halls-of-the-beggar-king-gary-con-preview/) showcases what's coming from GP Adventures. The Marmoreal Tomb as it appears in Gygax Magazine #3 (http://store.gygaxmagazine.com/gygax-magazine-3-shipping-now/) does as well, and provides an ideal introduction to the campaign.
Ernie has confirmed he'd sign and personalize print copies of SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS for no extra charge. You can see how to get one on our website's announcement. (http://www.gp-adventures.com/own-a-print-copy-of-sammi-zowa-autographed-by-ernest-g-gygax/)
Quote from: Benoist;747240If any of you have any questions for me about what we're doing, the products, the Hobby Shop Dungeon, its world or whatnot, I'm game.
I'll talk more later about the Haunted Halls of the Beggar King.
I want to get Gygax Mag 3 but have not. I like Greyhawk and mods like the Lost Caverns do Tsojcanth. I also like the new 5E dungeon mods coming out.
What does the world for this dungeon offer me? What do you really like about the setting and adventures?
Quote from: Benoist;747845SAMMI-ZOWA VERSUS THE DUELING DRAGONS
No offense, but is this what we've really come to?
Quote from: RPGPundit;748475No offense, but is this what we've really come to?
If by that you mean that we've come to a point where gamers have children of their own whom they might want to read bed time stories to, that these stories might happen to coincide with their own gaming interests, or if you mean a point where a grandfather and a gamer, Ernie, wrote a story for his offspring while remembering the stories he himself was taught as a child by the person who happened to create this hobby of ours, or that such stories still today might interest some people and prompt them to create new gaming material to enjoy with their own friends and families, I'm afraid so, yes.
If by that you mean that some insane people might have thought there would be some good in sharing such a story, that it might carry a good message through fantasy, while at the same time providing entertainment through its reading, then yes, absolutely so.
If you further mean that we live in a digital age where we can get in touch with writers/editors like Nerissa Montie and artists such as Simon Todd, who lives in the UK, that we probably wouldn't have been able to work with them on a daily basis before, and that they do justice to the story by polishing the text and coming up with art such as this:
(http://enrill.net/images/gp-adventures/Sammi-sleeps-800.jpg)
Or this:
(http://enrill.net/images/gp-adventures/Sammi-zowa-02-800.jpg)
Then yes, most definitely, I am glad to report we have come to this!
IF, however, you are are wondering why I am not talking about the Haunted Halls of the Beggar King (http://www.gp-adventures.com/shop/haunted-halls-of-the-beggar-king-gary-con-preview/) yet, and how this module would not have actually happened in this form without the RPG Site, I could talk about that as well, of course! Just let me know. :)
(http://enrill.net/images/gp-adventures/DU2-PREVIEW-600.jpg) (http://www.gp-adventures.com/shop/haunted-halls-of-the-beggar-king-gary-con-preview/)
Everyone knows that I am a big admirer of Gary Gygax, I defend his role as the creator of the hobby, and of D&D, and reject those who try to downplay his role and significance.
But what I'm bemoaning is that those who are fetishists of all things Gygax have gotten to the point of selling a buying what amounts to a remembered bedtime story that may or may not have been something once uttered from Gary Gygax's mouth, transmitted from the would be heir-with-the-blood-of-the-prophet and carrier-of-the-true-name.
I guess I'm an Old-school "sunni" and not "shiite".
I used to joke about how some day the OSR taliban will end up publishing Gary Gygax's old laundry lists; now I'm not so sure that won't happen when all else is finally spent.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;749168Everyone knows that I am a big admirer of Gary Gygax, I defend his role as the creator of the hobby, and of D&D, and reject those who try to downplay his role and significance.
I understand that, and I have seen it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;749168But what I'm bemoaning is that those who are fetishists of all things Gygax have gotten to the point of selling a buying what amounts to a remembered bedtime story that may or may not have been something once uttered from Gary Gygax's mouth, transmitted from the would be heir-with-the-blood-of-the-prophet and carrier-of-the-true-name.
I guess I'm an Old-school "sunni" and not "shiite".
I used to joke about how some day the OSR taliban will end up publishing Gary Gygax's old laundry lists; now I'm not so sure that won't happen when all else is finally spent.
RPGPundit
I don't expect this kind of material to please all the fans of all things Gary Gygax. People like different things for different reasons: Some gamers don't have an interest in children's stories, or don't have children of their own with whom to share them, nor do they really see interest in sharing anything beyond the game itself, and that is all fine by me, really.
I don't think that those who do care about these things, who do see value in a family story like Sammi-Zowa, deserve to be called "OSR Talibans" or anything of the sort, however. There are a wide variety of reasons, some of whom I just enumerated in my previous post, (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=748533#post748533) why gamers might be interested in checking Sammi-Zowa out, the main reason being that, to me, it is in itself a charming, humanly good story created by Ernest for his grandson, polished by Nerissa, and accompanied by great art from Simon Todd for its own sake. A story that is worth sharing with the public at large: gamers, children and relatives of gamers, non-gamers alike.
If anything, I think this kind of knee-jerk reaction on your part just works against your credibility as a pundit, in that it makes you look unable to fathom why anyone could find interest in something you do not personally support nor understand. Nevermind the fact you haven't had a look at the story itself: It tells much more about your own thought process in labeling people "Talibans" than it does about Sammi-Zowa, its relevance, or its intrinsic value as a fantasy tale.
Short of having a major children's publisher, the fact is the majority of the people who are likely to buy this book are people so obsessed with Gary Gygax that they're willing to buy a book marginally related to his son's childhood memory of him.
I wait with baited breath to see the inevitable book from his accountant, his bowling league buddies telling stories about his lane strategy, and from that pizza delivery boy who once brought a peperoni-and-mushroom to his house.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;749719Short of having a major children's publisher, the fact is the majority of the people who are likely to buy this book are people so obsessed with Gary Gygax that they're willing to buy a book marginally related to his son's childhood memory of him.
I wait with baited breath to see the inevitable book from his accountant, his bowling league buddies telling stories about his lane strategy, and from that pizza delivery boy who once brought a peperoni-and-mushroom to his house.
RPGPundit
As a matter of fact, among the people who have purchased this book so far, I can count parents who are themselves gamers introducing the game's fantasy to their own children, people introducing the D&D game to the 8-10 year old with birthday parties and store games, and people who are not gamers at all and are genuinely curious - and excited after reading it! - about the fantasy that surrounds the D&D game they had vaguely heard about before. Not to mention, I have had children who have never heard of the D&D game before who have heard the story told to them and now are trying to get their parents to buy it for them!
So, I don't mean any offense, of course, but experience tells me you are so full of shit right now, your eyes are brown. :)
Tolkien's Father Christmas Letters this ain't, I strongly suspect.
Well maybe if the letters had been made up by Christopher Tolkien because he was short of a buck...
The illustrations certainly look nice.
Quote from: Fiasco;749921Tolkien's Father Christmas Letters this ain't, I strongly suspect.
It certainly wasn't created to be anything else than a family story.
Quote from: Fiasco;749921Well maybe if the letters had been made up by Christopher Tolkien because he was short of a buck...
Actually, first, the story was composed many years ago for Sam, Ernest's grandson. At the time Ernest's own father was alive and well, there was no drive or opportunity to just make up some shit and bank on the man's legacy.
Second, Sammi-Zowa would be a very poor choice for us at GP were we trying to make a fuckton of money fast. If that was the case, I can tell you what we would do: we would whip up the Hobby Shop Dungeon itself in two weeks time, sell or crowd-fund the thing unpolished/un-fleshed out and laugh while running all the way to the bank.
The truth of the matter is that Ernest created this story and wanted to share it with gamers. It's the common link between his father and his wife, Debbie, who died three years ago (she didn't care for the D&D game herself, but the children sure loved the stories). For Ernie, it's the junction between these two parts of his life that he sees going forward into the future, and wants to share with gamers now rather than later.
Quoting the book's introduction:
Quote from: Ernest G. Gygax Jr. in SAMMI-ZOWAFellow storytellers!
This is my story written many ages ago when I had but two grandsons and they were not used to any real books, let alone Adventure stories.
My job was to take these young fellows and open their imaginations to the possiblilities of what could be in a World set in a fantasy Feudal Japan yet with all the real actions of and activities of our lives, including Grandma and Grandpa, and the way it would feel in a Southeastern Wisconsin in Japanese clothes.
It is not at all easy bringing many young people back to the printed word and assisting them in putting down the video games, tablets, and gadgets. This is just that project done with an outpouring of imagination, a few basic lessons, and the start of learning to understand everything and everyone not only by our own limited viewpoint but by recognizing what is important to all living creatures at various stages of their lives.
This story is written for my first grandson Samuel Markling. May we enjoy many games together in the future and, equally important to us, share in several celebrations of our beloved Chicago Bears versus the Ronins of Ao Bay.
Those of us involved in this work hope and strive to make this not only the most enjoyable product for the young reader but a door opener for future Adventures in all media.
Grandpapa-san Ernest G. Gygax Jr.
Missing Grandmama-san Deborah N. Gygax
Gary Con 2014
We sure would both like it if Sammi-Zowa became a huge commercial success, but make no mistake: this is not why it was produced in the first place. I know that might come as a surprise, but while there is such a thing as being responsible and thinking about the financial interest of one's company, money doesn't have to be the primary motivation in presenting a book to a larger public via commercialization.
Quote from: The_Shadow;749922The illustrations certainly look nice.
Thank you! Simon Todd is an amazing guy, with great skills. He was out of his comfort zone on this one and really loved the challenge, I think. His passion for Sammi-Zowa's story came through his own work, there's no doubt about it. :)
I might get it. My daughter likes stories like that. How much is it?
Quote from: Mistwell;749989I might get it. My daughter likes stories like that. How much is it?
Thanks for your and your daughter's interest. :)
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Quote from: RPGPundit;749719I wait with baited breath to see the inevitable book from his accountant, his bowling league buddies telling stories about his lane strategy, and from that pizza delivery boy who once brought a peperoni-and-mushroom to his house.
Don't forget Old Geezer's memoirs.
Quote from: Dodger;749996Don't forget Old Geezer's memoirs.
It just sounds bizarre to me, like people are expecting some type of "objective truth" to come out of these sorts of memoirs or recollections. Dude, you need to read
Playing At The World from Jon Peterson: this is what you are looking for. Not OG's memoirs.
When I buy Old Geezer's memoir, it will be for his own recollections and his own perception of his own time playing the game, not because of some warped idea that this is somehow the final word on how it used to be or whatnot.
This kind of view seems incredibly misguided, disregarding human nature and how we each with our own biases can learn from other, naturally biased points of view. It's really wishing for a platonic ideal of memories and recollections that just cannot be
by virtue of being such.So, what are we left with? The value of such recollections
in context. And the value of the tales and memories and stories in and of themselves, for their own sake. I'm sure OG's got more than his share to say that would be both entertaining and enlightening in some way or other in itself, and from my end, as a cheerleader on Sammi-Zowa (since I was not one of the principals on the project in any way, shape or form), I can say I do see the value in the story in and of itself, as a stand-alone product that touches hearts and minds for its own sake.
That's what it really is at the end of the day. A good, pre-gaming-inspired story throughout. A gaming story which, in its own time, will lead to actual game modules of its own.
I'm willing to concede that these things (OG's and Ernie's stuff) are labours of love, and not just some kind of duplicitous opportunism.
Its just the mentality behind the demand for these things that drives me nuts. Its not what I myself want from Old-School or want Old-school to be.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;750327I'm willing to concede that these things (OG's and Ernie's stuff) are labours of love...
Ernie's? Yes.
OG's? Labour of senility, more like.
Quote from: RPGPundit;750327I'm willing to concede that these things (OG's and Ernie's stuff) are labours of love, and not just some kind of duplicitous opportunism.
Its just the mentality behind the demand for these things that drives me nuts. Its not what I myself want from Old-School or want Old-school to be.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Dodger;750333Ernie's? Yes.
OG's? Labour of senility, more like.
OK, I understand your feelings much better. There are certainly people who have that kind of mentality you describe. What I'm hoping for is that they too will come to appreciate something like Sammi-Zowa for its own sake, as the labor of love it is, rather than some piece of memorabilia akin to Gary's laundry list on a napkin or whatnot. Only time will tell.
Also, ditto on people wanting different things out of the hobby. I perfectly understand when someone tells me "okay this is nice and all, but I want the modules, man!" That's totally understandable.
That brings us to the Beggar King. I'll expand on that later.
Pundit tends to blow things way out of proportion. I'm sure there are half a dozen Gygax fetishists out there but I don't think they're a market, let alone the market, for Sammi-Zowa.
I would pay good money for Pundit's memoir. Just sayin!
Quote from: Mistwell;750453I would pay good money for Pundit's memoir. Just sayin!
Walter Mitty has already been done! Twice. ;)
Ignore the haters, Ben, I think a retelling of an old story sounds cute.
And I don't know when I pissed in Dodger's Cheerios, but I'll gladly do so again given the chance, and he can tongue my pee hole again while I'm at it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;750327I'm willing to concede that these things (OG's and Ernie's stuff) are labours of love, and not just some kind of duplicitous opportunism.
Its just the mentality behind the demand for these things that drives me nuts. Its not what I myself want from Old-School or want Old-school to be.
RPGPundit
Thing is, there arent that many clamboring for all things Gygaxian as one might think. And a a childrens book is likely to just get a glance as any other TSR era childrens book. And TSR cranked out quite a few, not counting the EQ books.
Is there some big demand for the Gord series? Theres still a copy sitting in a bookstore locally...
Thing is. Gary has just as many haters as he does fans, possibly moreso because of course the hatemongers will be more vocal.
Quote from: Mistwell;750453I would pay good money for Pundit's memoir. Just sayin!
It would begin: "We were somewhere around Cabo Polonio, on the edge of the sand dunes, when the drugs began to take hold..."
Quote from: RPGPundit;750964It would begin: "We were somewhere around Cabo Polonio, on the edge of the sand dunes, when the drugs began to take hold..."
If you're writing at 5 in the morning, the drug must be caffeine. I can't imagine being up that early.
Well, unless I haven't gone to bed yet.