The spellplague didn't really bother me per se.

Transposing entire continents of dragondudes and elemental hybrids- wiping out some of the more interesting places in the existing realms - was a much bigger issue for me.

I'm curious to see if the "Sundering" undoes any of that.

Quote from: Saplatt;632496The spellplague didn't really bother me per se.

Transposing entire continents of dragondudes and elemental hybrids- wiping out some of the more interesting places in the existing realms - was a much bigger issue for me.

I'm curious to see if the "Sundering" undoes any of that.

Welcome!

It bothered me a lot, but it was just one piece of a big turd sandwich. FR 4e was made for people who didn't like FR to begin with, and it abandoned all the long-term fans.

Funny part is, most of the people it was targeted at still didn't like FR after they saw this book.

Certainly, for me who was into the setting around 2nd Edition  - including the novels (in my defense they were easy to read on a long commute, though looking back they were pretty terrible), it did have a negative effect. I'd say it did send out a big message of 'double fuck you', to every fan of the books, or the Campaign Setting especially with the Dragonboob and death of major gods and other needless changes.

I think they ruined it! Just like Dragonlance was ruined (if it was ever any good) with that whole crystal god, reboot into something awful type thing. I think it all shows a lack of imagination, they should have just created a new official campaign world for the 4th Edition were the Dragonboob et al could have fitted in rather than shoehorning them into long forged worlds. I wonder if part of the reason for the 5th Edition was the effect that the 4th edition had on the D&D Novel sales..

Quote from: elfandghost;632541I wonder if part of the reason for the 5th Edition was the effect that the 4th edition had on the D&D Novel sales..

Good point.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, if this was a part of the equation.

The generic D&D novels in the 4E "Nentir Vale" were just as uninspiring and bland as the 4E FR novels.

Quote from: Bill;632482I found that bringing my old school dnd mentality to 4e worked.

Not a fan of healing surges though.

This.

I refuse to get sucked into the powergaming uber crap that 4e wallows in, and when I DM for my kids I emphasize old school roleplaying rather than shuttling them from encounter to encounter.

Quote from: Reckall;632450I had a very low opinion of 4E rulewise, but it was based on the previews and my distaste was limited to the rules. I bought the two FR 4E books while vacationing in Washington D.C., thinking that, in the worst case scenario, I could still use the fluff.

I left the two books in an airport bin when I took the plane back to Italy. 'Nuff said.

Seriously?  I did not like the Spell-plague but there was some material in those books worth reading . . .

In terms of the Spellplague, I had more trouble with Thay and the total idiocy of a lot of the actors in that area.  Can they really all have missed that particular master plan?

Quote from: danbuter;632505It bothered me a lot, but it was just one piece of a big turd sandwich. FR 4e was made for people who didn't like FR to begin with, and it abandoned all the long-term fans.

Funny part is, most of the people it was targeted at still didn't like FR after they saw this book.

Substitute "D&D" in general for FR in particular and it still applies.

When I still thought it was worthwhile to post at The Banning Place, my review of Forgotten Realms (4E) Player's Guide was "In which Wizards of the Coast attempts to fit the many-shaped pegs of the Forgotten Realms setting into the round hole that is D&D 4th Edition."

JG

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;632469My issues with 4e is the OMFGAWESOMEGIANTSWORDSVIDEOGAMEMECHANICSANIMEACTIONALLTHETIMESUPERPOWERSACTIONACTIONACTIONTALKINGTOGUARDSISNTFUN!FUNUSED79TIMESINTHEDMGALLPREVIOUSEDITIONSWASBADWRONGFUN!!!1eleven mentality...

Yeah, I really enoy 4e and have had fun with it, but I think the online 4e fanbase has some very vocal participants that turn me off a bit. The current whinging you see related to 5e is particularly cringeworthy.

I think that the userbase of this forum would tend to be people who would not have been all that affected by the 4e spellplague bullshit because most of them would not be very active realms-fans anymore.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;633293I think that the userbase of this forum would tend to be people who would not have been all that affected by the 4e spellplague bullshit because most of them would not be very active realms-fans anymore.

RPGPundit

Another thing I wrote in my review was to the effect of "if all these changes offend you, you're probably one of those people who doesn't like New D&D in general and therefore wouldn't get this book in the first place."

jg

As I have previously stated, the best of the company produced campaign worlds are akin to a salad bar. A well-executed setting makes a verity of options available, in terms of locations, magic items and powers, rather like olives, shredded cheese and romaine lettuce and it is up to individual to assemble the meal they desire. A standard setting, such as Greyhawk for example, offers a standard spread. An unusual setting will offer an unusual spread.

Employing this metaphor, 4E Forgotten Realms is what you get when you cover a salad bar in shit and set it all on fire.

In the success of F.R. lay a paradoxical problem for the setting, as it became a victim of that success. This body of work, a virtue in the eyes of fans, became a liability in the eyes of the producers because it became a hurdle for new customers turned off by the scope of the material. The Star Trek franchise faced a similar problem. J. J. Abrams’ 2009 Star Trek feature demonstrated way to handle the issue aptly. 4E Forgotten Realms demonstrated a way to handle the issue like a god damned dumbass.

The 4E campaign guide to the setting opens with the village of Loundwater, a cookie cutter of a village with the appeal of bowl of room temperature plain oatmeal. As a village, Loudwater manages to be duller than the town presented in the DMG, which at least had an escarpment running through town keeping things interesting.

One of the former hallmarks of the previous presentation of the Forgotten Realms was a detailed trading network, both in terms of shipping, roads and magical portals. This encouraged the PC to travel from one town to another, adventuring as they went. This trading network has collapsed in 4E, making traveling less appealing and as a result narrowing game possibilities.

Text opening both 4E Forgotten Realms books includes the following entry; “Most portals no longer work. The breaking of the Weave (the way magic works in the setting) destroyed most of the portals that crisscrossed Toril, because it destroyed the hard-won knowledge of arcane casters.”

This makes my brain hurt. Hypothetically, if something were to happen to erase from the real world the knowledge of making concrete and asphalt, existing roads and sidewalks would not automatically disappear then-and-there because the two are not that directly connected.

An expansive setting, to which many creators contributed material, the Forgotten Realms included a number of fantasy medieval Pseudo-European locations, include the aforementioned Shadowdale, Corymr and Waterdeep. The setting also served as home to fantasy not-Pseudo-Europe locations. These included fantasy version of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Sub-Saharan Africa, Meso-America and others.

Why does this matter?

It matters because the fantasy Sub-Saharan Africa, areas called Chult, the Sharr and the Shinning South, the fantasy Egypt called Mulhorandi, the fantasy Mesopotamia called Unther, the fantasy Meso America called Mazteca and some others were curb stomped into oblivion. Something else these areas had in common – they where inhabited by brown people.

To reiterate, in moving the setting from 3E to 4E, the not-fantasy European settings with brown people were the ones destroyed or the most thoroughly devastated. By comparison, the pseudo-European locations inhabited by white people, such as Waterdeep, Cormyr and Shadowdale escaped the campaign reset mostly unscathed.

In the most generous analysis, this is at best a severe narrowing of game options offered by the setting. It is unlikely any racism played an active role in the decision making process behind moving the settings from 3E to 4E, however, this move still destroyed more brown nations than white nations.

To quote the Horse from Ren and Stempy, "No sir, I don't like it."

Edit: For the record, I like 4E D&D.

Quote from: GrumpyReviews;633755As I have previously stated, the best of the company produced campaign worlds are akin to a salad bar. A well-executed setting makes a verity of options available, in terms of locations, magic items and powers, rather like olives, shredded cheese and romaine lettuce and it is up to individual to assemble the meal they desire. A standard setting, such as Greyhawk for example, offers a standard spread. An unusual setting will offer an unusual spread.

Employing this metaphor, 4E Forgotten Realms is what you get when you cover a salad bar in shit and set it all on fire.

On FIRE!

QuoteThe 4E campaign guide to the setting opens with the village of Loundwater, a cookie cutter of a village with the appeal of bowl of room temperature plain oatmeal. As a village, Loudwater manages to be duller than the town presented in the DMG, which at least had an escarpment running through town keeping things interesting.

Not least because it obliged the DM to look up the word "escarpment."

QuoteOne of the former hallmarks of the previous presentation of the Forgotten Realms was a detailed trading network, both in terms of shipping, roads and magical portals. This encouraged the PC to travel from one town to another, adventuring as they went. This trading network has collapsed in 4E, making traveling less appealing and as a result narrowing game possibilities.

"Points of light", y'know.

QuoteText opening both 4E Forgotten Realms books includes the following entry; "Most portals no longer work. The breaking of the Weave (the way magic works in the setting) destroyed most of the portals that crisscrossed Toril, because it destroyed the hard-won knowledge of arcane casters."

This makes my brain hurt. Hypothetically, if something were to happen to erase from the real world the knowledge of making concrete and asphalt, existing roads and sidewalks would not automatically disappear then-and-there because the two are not that directly connected.

Fuck YOU, it's MAGIC!

QuoteAn expansive setting, to which many creators contributed material, the Forgotten Realms included a number of fantasy medieval Pseudo-European locations, include the aforementioned Shadowdale, Corymr and Waterdeep. The setting also served as home to fantasy not-Pseudo-Europe locations. These included fantasy version of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Sub-Saharan Africa, Meso-America and others.

Why does this matter?

It matters because the fantasy Sub-Saharan Africa, areas called Chult, the Sharr and the Shinning South, the fantasy Egypt called Mulhorandi, the fantasy Mesopotamia called Unther, the fantasy Meso America called Mazteca and some others were curb stomped into oblivion. Something else these areas had in common – they where inhabited by brown people.

To reiterate, in moving the setting from 3E to 4E, the not-fantasy European settings with brown people were the ones destroyed or the most thoroughly devastated. By comparison, the pseudo-European locations inhabited by white people, such as Waterdeep, Cormyr and Shadowdale escaped the campaign reset mostly unscathed.

In the most generous analysis, this is at best a severe narrowing of game options offered by the setting. It is unlikely any racism played an active role in the decision making process behind moving the settings from 3E to 4E, however, this move still destroyed more brown nations than white nations.

To quote the Horse from Ren and Stempy, "No sir, I don't like it."

Edit: For the record, I like 4E D&D.

4E FR: The Rubber Nipple Salesman of D&D
or
4E FR: Doing to Toril what HIV did to Sub-Saharan Africa

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;632469My issues with 4e is the OMFGAWESOMEGIANTSWORDSVIDEOGAMEMECHANICSANIMEACTIONALLTHETIMESUPERPOWERSACTIONACTIONACTIONTALKINGTOGUARDSISNTFUN!FUNUSED79TIMESINTHEDMGALLPREVIOUSEDITIONSWASBADWRONGFUN!!!1eleven mentality...

I'll plagiarize this as soon as possible.