Quote from: NikchickGURPS has been around for a long time and has solidly cemented its reputation for having quality sourcebooks. I know people who don't play GURPS at all who regularly bought (and may still buy) GURPS sourcebooks to use as reference material for other systems.

Yep, I do this. I have at least two dozen GURPS sourcebooks and I've actually only played GURPS once, long ago, and only then to test the system out.

Quote from: NikchickWhile the GURPS audience is definitely smaller than the D&D audience, the percentage of the D&D audience willing to buy d20 products is really pretty small. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the d20 audience was about the same size as the GURPS audience.

Hmm. I hadn't considered that. For some reason, I'd assumed the d20 audience was far larger than that of GURPS.

Quote from: NikchickCompetition certainly has some impact, too. That fraction of D&D players willing to try d20-branded or OGL products have a lot of options to choose from. GURPS players have only to look to SJG.

That's a very good point.

Quote from: NikchickAnother difference is that GURPS is a toolkit system and I think their audience is used to picking and choosing things to build their own custom campaigns. D&D comes with an implied setting, and even if D&D players are picking up alternative sourcebooks from d20 publishers, every step away from the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk (and the elves and dwarves, the fighters and magic users) is more removed from the "core" players, inevitably cutting out some potential customers. I've known countless people who will pick up a GURPS book to use the material in other games, but that phenomenon doesn't go the other way: we just don't see GURPS or WoD or CoC players picking up d20 books to mine them for ideas.  Non-d20 players don't cross over for the most part.

Yeah, that's a point that never occurred to me before. I can't think of too many instances of non-d20/non-D&D players using any D&D material as resources, but I can think of many, many examples of D&D/d20 players using other game books as resources - in my case, for example, I buy and have used as resources GURPS and TORG sourcebooks, and I'd say the bulk of the RPGs I've bought over the years have been acquired with the intent to mine them for stuff to use in D&D and, later, d20.

Quote from: NikchickOf course, as Dacke points out, even SJG has changed up the way they're dong their sourcebooks under 4th edition, so it's possible that their way of doing supplements from the 90s wasn't sustainable either. I don't really have any specific insight into that.

This hadn't registered before Dacke's post, but yeah, it does seem like SJG has changed how they do sourcebooks. There are so many of those GURPS sourcebooks floating around that it's easy to miss that there haven't been any new ones, at least in that form, for a while.

Dacke - the Mythic Vistas books are softcover, and vary in length. However, they aren't very different from GURPS sourcebooks. I think they're generally prettier than the GURPS books, but they have black and white interior art.

I too am a big-time buyer of GURPS sourcebooks who doesn't actually play GURPS.
Which is why I was rather disappointed with their format change, and the fact that apparently they too are no longer doing historical books.
I'm guessing that if SJG can't make those books profitable, then no one can.

RPGPundit

My impression (from chats, playtests, & the like) was that, pre-4e, pure historicals tended to sell less than other sorts of GURPS books.

I seem to remember some SJG-types mentioning some round numbers once or twice, at least by way of example; but I don't remember the specifics.

I think part of the problem has to do with the success of earlier books, like those in the GURPS line. Once someone came out with a good quality sourcebook on historical Egypt/Greece/Rome/Celts/etc..., that may have mostly fulfilled the needs of the audience looking for that kind of stuff. Most of these books, while very good, tend to dive into the same (or similar) material... the bulk of what is different is regarding the rules set. Folks who can convert with little pain can rather easily use one of those previous sourcebooks for plot hooks without going out and buying a new product.

I am saddened to hear of the discontinuance of the Mythic Vistas line, as I thought they were all good. I hope to pick up Testament in particular in the near-future and dive into it.

Testament is great.  Unfortunately, it's not as detailed in places as I would like.  It tries to cover four or five radically different cultures and over 1000 years of history in a single book.  I'd have liked to have seen more about what life is like for the average person at that time: food, clothing, customs, entertainment - that sort of thing

However, as someone who's researched that stuff for a comic project, hard facts from that period aren't that easy to come by

Quote from: NikchickYeah.  Unfortunately, rave reviews aside, there just doesn't seem to be much of a market for those books right now.    The Mythic Vistas books were certainly among our favorite products to do, but buyers are so lukewarm (and our margin for error so much narrower after the Osseum debacle) that we just had to shelve it.

I keep thinking (and getting a few requests from fans) for a True 20 version of Roma Imperious. In light of this comment, I wonder if it would be viable?

I always thought Eternal Rome suffered from to broad a spectrum of historical period and fantasy-historic dicotomy. It just seemed to unfocused to grab players and pull them in. A good source book though, IMO.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI keep thinking (and getting a few requests from fans) for a True 20 version of Roma Imperious. In light of this comment, I wonder if it would be viable?

I always thought Eternal Rome suffered from to broad a spectrum of historical period and fantasy-historic dicotomy. It just seemed to unfocused to grab players and pull them in. A good source book though, IMO.

Bill

Seriously, Bill.  If you can do it, do it.  It would be awesome.