Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1067098Oh, fine...that's alright then.

Icke is a fucking racist nutjob. He was a shit goalkeeper too.

I've read about those shape-shifting lizard people. They were the original inhabitants of Earth millions of years before humans evolved. Then they went to war among themselves which included dropping a giant asteroid on the planet that ended the age. Then one faction fled Earth and the other factions' space fleets gave chase. When they reached the edge of the system and tried to go FTL, a massive time-space distortion captured them all...until recently. Some have already returned to Earth but the majority of their invasion force is still stuck in the time-space distortion. Until they arrive, the first wave hides in human forms and behind dark alliances with human powers that fail to see the whole threat. Who knew Eden Studios was secretly putting the truth out there with it's Conspiracy X game?

Quote from: SHARK;1067066Dude, it's not their responsibility to reform anyone, like a racist.

Agreed, but it is quite possible to have someone with objectionable beliefs in a game without having those beliefs impact the game.

Quote from: SHARK;1067066And furthermore, because people do not want to be around racists--or welcome a racist into their home--doesn't mean they have "a hand in making the monster."

Agreed again, if someone doesn't want a person with objectionable beliefs in their house, then fair enough.

It doesn't help sort out the problem though, that person will still have those beliefs and may well have them strengthened as they are being isolated because of their beliefs.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1067074You don't discuss things with them or reform them anymore than your First Sergeant did. You just slap them down and tell them to shut the fuck up and get on with the job. Your first sergeant didn't discuss anyone's racist feelings, he just told them their racist behaviour would not be tolerated and that they had a job to do.

That's the way the military does it, and honestly that's the way it should be done in civilian life. Slap the offender down and tell them to get on with the job.

Shut the fuck up and roll the dice!

In the game, yes, I agree.

After the game has finished, I'd say something like "What's your problem?" and have a discussion about it. At the end, it might be a case of "I don't want any of that shit at the gaming table, so cut it out. If you don't then you're not going to be playing with us in the future", but I'd have the discussion first.

The one that blows my mind is players that love to play elves and dwarves but won't play a human with brown skin.

Quote from: Azraele;1066999What always takes me off-guard me is how surprised they are when I point them to the door. It adds weight to my theory that "the RPG community" is just one of many rungs of the social ladder they smash their chin on in their ultimate topple to becoming basement-dwelling, misanthropic hermits.

I think it's because today people would rather run away from conflict and say nothing to the problem player about his poor behavior. I have seen this one too many times imo. Made worse because then your the enemy for actually doing the right thing. I was accused of being a jerk because I cut off a player who was talking bad about me behind my back. All because a few players now ex-players were and are anti-social to meet new people. They rather put up with assholes and such rather than actually get to new normal people.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1067051When I see phrases like "zero mercy," "no empathy," and an unwillingness to communicate, all I can think is that you're allowing the problem to grow. If you help to push a young adult (really, at 19 most people are hardly set in their ways) into a fast track to the "basement-dwelling misanthrope" pit, don't be too surprised when they likewise put up walls of "zero mercy," "no empathy," and an unwillingness to communicate. You might think that just leaves them to suffer, but that's not the way it tends to work. Much better I think to approach them with empathy and understanding (but not acceptance of abhorrent behaviors) and let them choose to either behave and stay around good-minded people or to stick with their bad behaviors and pull away on their own. This way they know they have the power to belong or not and cannot feed their ugliness off of being "your victim."

This is wrong with modern society. No I do not have to feel sympathy or empathy. Especially if the person has shown to not want to change their way. To use my example of the friend that talked behind my back. I turned the other cheek and was the better man at first. You know what though after a point fuck them they do not deserve my time being wasted. The same guy that was a jerk to me also is almost legally blind now because then years ago he was pre-diabetic and refused to listen to anyone who told him to stop eating sugar. He refused  to listen and predictably he has a whole list of problems. This is a guy who said I was a good person, was invited into my home and played at my table. Who kept talking trash to me behind my back. Never once apologized for his behavior and you think I'm just going to forget how I was treated by him because he stupidly refused to listen to anyone.

That's why we have too many 20-30s years old with no social skills and poor behavior because it was too much sympathy and empathy and less "this is not acceptable stop behaving badly or leave now!" on behalf of parents  and friends. All sympathy and empathy do is just reinforce the idea that they can behave badly.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1067093Funny that my anecdotal experiences are meaningless when you present nothing but a single anecdote. I gave you the benefit of the doubt even believing your story, most of the time when I encounter someone making claims about some horrible Nazi experience, it turns out to be invented for the purposes of virtue signaling. Of course, I couldn't possibly know in this case so I will withhold judgement, but it is unusual.

It is also a bit odd that my post is supposedly apologia for racism, but somehow mentioning the fact that SJW's have been in games with me isn't an excusing their odious ideology or the immeasurable harm that it causes. Especially since it is vastly more powerful than the far right.

This racism hysteria that we have in the modern West makes McCarthyists seem tame in comparison. OMG, you met a racist, OMG you touched a racist book, did the mere touch of such an item of pure evil give you insanity points? Is your entire gaming group going to have to be cleansed by the Grey Knights because of exposure to Chaos taint? Even the slightest hint of a racist drives people mad, in fact even the slightest hint that someone else isn't equally outraged makes people ready to call for witch hunts. Meanwhile we completely ignore people who advocate far leftist policies which have killed or ruined countless lives.

I never said that MYFAROG doesn't exist, so there is one right wing extremist independent RPG publisher out there who has sold a few copies. I'll start playing the smallest fiddle in the world for you while I think about all of the major book publishing companies (RPG and otherwise) run by the far left, or the massive control they have over universities, media, entertainment, nearly everything.

For the record, I give exactly zero fucks if you believe me. When I first saw your handle, I thought, ShieldWife, pretty good chance she's here to run interference for racism, and I think I was right. So, you too, can fuck off into the night.

Quote from: SP23;1066996whips out a copy of MYFAROG before the session started, and then tried to explain what a great human Varg Vikernes is! I shut it down real fast, literally blown away that I was seeing a copy of this out in the wild (I've only read all the terrible things about it online), and encountering a person who is, well, deeply troubled at the least to believe reverently in white nationalism.

Quote from: SP23;1066996A short time later, he started defending David Duke, saying that BlacKkKlansman was a hit job on Duke, and started trying to white wash (pun intended) the KKK.

Wow.

Lots of condemnation in this thread of "racism", which I agree with. Also lots of good advice for dealing with actual racists.

And this guy might be one, I don't know him.

But criticizing a movie for attacking a white nationalist is not the same thing as being a white nationalist. Enjoying a game written by someone you've morally condemned does not make someone morally bankrupt. These leaps of "logic" are exactly what make identity-driven SJWs so absurd.

That you were "literally blown away" by the mere presence of a game is telling.

Now it may be that this person also said other things that aren't being reported here, but from the description in the OP the only thing I hear is the wild absurdities I hear every day from raving lunatics who can't tell the difference between, say, critiquing a bad movie that critiques a bad person, and being a supporter of that bad person.

Quote from: SP23;1066996Needless to say, the entire night turned into a shitshow ...

This seems inevitable at any table where someone is going to "literally blown away" by "seeing a copy" of a game because you don't happen to agree with the author's politics.

(Particularly a game that you're judging on the basis of having "only read all the terrible things about online." I'll guess ... at RPGnet, right?)

Quote from: HappyDaze;1067064It's not harsh, it's just the easy way. That doesn't make it the better way. If those that choose the easy path later become victims of those they so easily cast aside, they cannot honestly say they had no hand in making the monster.

It's not always clear which path may contribute more to making a monster. Better to choose a path on its own merits than on the outcomes you can't predict.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1067084The OP's account actually sounds rather strange to me, because in my experience, most people on the far right of the political spectrum "hide their power level" until they get to know people relatively well. He might have been a trolling or contrary sort of person.

He was friends with the DM, who had no problem with this; he may have assumed that the DM had chosen other players who would be receptive to this.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1067093I gave you the benefit of the doubt even believing your story, most of the time when I encounter someone making claims about some horrible Nazi experience, it turns out to be invented for the purposes of virtue signaling.

You'd save a lot of typing if you just said "False flag operation!", especially as you seem the sort of person who would have a keyboard shortcut to insert that phrase.

Quote from: S'mon;1067096Apparently he's not anti-Semitic https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Icke#Not_anti-Semitic - apparently some people (including actual anti-Semites) got confused by his sincerely held belief that 'Jew' in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was code for 'shape shifting alien reptile'.

Even if using the word "Jew" to mean "shape shifting alien reptile" (apparently not the nice kind of shape shifting alien reptile) isn't anti-Semitic, I'm pretty sure, even with no other source of information about who this person is, that "He does believe the virulently antisemitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a true document" and "He also has been flirting with Holocaust denial" (both from your link) means he is anti-Semitic.

Quote from: Zalman;1067129Lots of condemnation in this thread of "racism", which I agree with. Also lots of good advice for dealing with actual racists.

And this guy might be one, I don't know him.

This thread is a dumpster fire. Coincidentally the dumpsters are arranged in the shape of a cross. Don't read anything into that until you know all the people involved, and even then I'm sure you can find good people on both sides.

Quote from: Zalman;1067129Wow.

Lots of condemnation in this thread of "racism", which I agree with. Also lots of good advice for dealing with actual racists.

And this guy might be one, I don't know him.

But criticizing a movie for attacking a white nationalist is not the same thing as being a white nationalist. Enjoying a game written by someone you've morally condemned does not make someone morally bankrupt. These leaps of "logic" are exactly what make identity-driven SJWs so absurd.

That you were "literally blown away" by the mere presence of a game is telling.

Now it may be that this person also said other things that aren't being reported here, but from the description in the OP the only thing I hear is the wild absurdities I hear every day from raving lunatics who can't tell the difference between, say, critiquing a bad movie that critiques a bad person, and being a supporter of that bad person.


This seems inevitable at any table where someone is going to "literally blown away" by "seeing a copy" of a game because you don't happen to agree with the author's politics.

(Particularly a game that you're judging on the basis of having "only read all the terrible things about online." I'll guess ... at RPGnet, right?)

So you wouldn't be blown away by someone making a spirited defense of the virtues of the KKK? Someone going on and on about how poor David Duke's character has been impinged by that vile Spike Lee?

Hey I get it, therpgsite is a haven for proto-fascist, and you guys don't like people clutching their pearls just because they saw some naughty RPG. Whatever, I think people like you and ShieldWife are showing your true colors in the defense of racism, fucking pedes.

Jesus Christ! People are disagreeing on a message board! I've never seen something like this before!

Quote from: sureshot;1067121All sympathy and empathy do is just reinforce the idea that they can behave badly.

If you believe that then you do not understand what empathy is about. You can show empathy without accepting bad behavior.

Quote from: SP23;1067136So you wouldn't be blown away by someone making a spirited defense of the virtues of the KKK? Someone going on and on about how poor David Duke's character has been impinged by that vile Spike Lee?

Hey I get it, therpgsite is a haven for proto-fascist, and you guys don't like people clutching their pearls just because they saw some naughty RPG. Whatever, I think people like you and ShieldWife are showing your true colors in the defense of racism, fucking pedes.

OK, now I'm starting to doubt your story because this looks like "gotcha" bait.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1067138If you believe that then you do not understand what empathy is about. You can show empathy without accepting bad behavior.

In Sureshot's defense, he did say "Too much empathy".

Quote from: jeff37923;1067139OK, now I'm starting to doubt your story because this looks like "gotcha" bait.

Jeff it was only a matter of time before you questioned the narrative

It's illustrative how differently this event is accepted depending on the forum, therpgsite, is nothing if not consistent. Pretty awesome that when people require further proof, said further information just reinforces the skepticism, it's almost (it is), that you guys have a mindset that won't accept certain events happening because it's just too outrageous. Perfectly fine to type all day long how SJW are destroying the world, but you can't believe a 19 year old owns a copy of MYFAROG and has a hard on for David Duke? Do racist not exist, wow, it's just utterly inconceivable that this could have happened.

Shit, the little bastard showed up on the Reddit thread about this in dndnext and started trying to defend himself (incognito), until I called him out and he got the thread locked. He fucked up and revealed info that only someone at the game could have known, outing his identity. U/Demonweed if you care.......

Quote from: SP23;1067136So you wouldn't be blown away by someone making a spirited defense of the virtues of the KKK? Someone going on and on about how poor David Duke's character has been impinged by that vile Spike Lee?

For myself: No. I've heard almost comically extreme racist positions. There was a time in my life when I would have been shocked, so I don't blame you for that.

QuoteHey I get it, therpgsite is a haven for proto-fascist, and you guys don't like people clutching their pearls just because they saw some naughty RPG.

Did you come looking for people to pat you on the back?