Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092941Bonus to intimidate, impress minus to charm, convince, and you could drop cyberpsychosis.

I'm thinking the intimidate could come from a place where people are afraid the character is close to becoming a cyberpsycho. And charm/impress would come from a place where the subject thinks cybernetics are "cool" and "hip". An anti-cyber gang would take the mod as a penalty/add to difficulty to influence.
I'd still want to keep cyberpsychosis.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1092943I'm thinking the intimidate could come from a place where people are afraid the character is close to becoming a cyberpsycho. And charm/impress would come from a place where the subject thinks cybernetics are "cool" and "hip". An anti-cyber gang would take the mod as a penalty/add to difficulty to influence.
I'd still want to keep cyberpsychosis.

So a reaction table that takes into account how cyber friendly the NPC are?

Not bad, same bonus/penalty depending on the NPC's rating in cyber-friendly,

[table=width: 500, class: grid]
[tr]
   [td]CyberFriendly Rating [/td] [td] Bonus/Penalty[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]blah[/td] [td]blah[/td]
[/tr]

[/table]



Something like that?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092949So a reaction table that takes into account how cyber friendly the NPC are?

Not bad, same bonus/penalty depending on the NPC's rating in cyber-friendly,

CyberFriendly Rating  Bonus/Penalty
blah                           blah

Something like that?

Yeah. I'd hate to make it too complex, but mods for how fashionable the cyberware is would be appropriate as well. A Solo would want tacticool cyberwear, and a Rocker would want the latest chrome and neon piping. Maybe roll that stuff into the existing fashion sense skill.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1092951Yeah. I'd hate to make it too complex, but mods for how fashionable the cyberware is would be appropriate as well. A Solo would want tacticool cyberwear, and a Rocker would want the latest chrome and neon piping. Maybe roll that stuff into the existing fashion sense skill.

Cosmetic chrome gives you more of a bonus to charm and less to intimidate, while tactical chrome does the opposite.

I'm not sure it needs to be that complex. The implicit use of the associated skills are pretty straightforward.


COOL/WILL
Interrogation
Intimidate
Oratory
Resist Torture/Drugs
Streetwise

EMPATHY
Human Perception
Interview
Leadership
Seduction
Social
Persuasion & Fast Talk
Perform

So the mere act of using those skills should tell you under what circumstances such bonuses/penalties are applicable. Of course we could totally have the debate on what skills belong to what stat. But that's a different issue. You can apply those bonuses to specific skills, or stat, or skills between either stats.  etc. It can be handled at the item level or broadly.

The problem that I can see with this bonus modification is that in play. I'd notice that the more borged out PCs would have Players use it like, "Intimidate is my Persuasion & Fast Talk!", so the nature of the role-played character interaction is very different (which leads to unintended consequences). Use of the bonus mods just exacerbates the situation.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1092889After all; what's to prevent a player from saying that they totally had an accident before the campaign began.

The GM saying "No."

QuoteOr even doing stupid risky things to try to get damaged.

The GM saying, "Stop that." This is just one step removed from players who in a roll 3D6 and keep system like OD&D insist on having their character commit suicide because there stats weren't above average and then want the dead character to will their G.P.s to their next character.

Alternatively rigidly enforcing the costs of upgrade, risks of being damaged (death, brain damage, neurological damage, phobia), and including the risk that some corporation or illegal body mod doc includes some back door malware into your upgrade can make "I let the bad guys shoot me in the arm" be NOT a good tactic.

Quote from: jeff37923;1092965The problem that I can see with this bonus modification is that in play. I'd notice that the more borged out PCs would have Players use it like, "Intimidate is my Persuasion & Fast Talk!", so the nature of the role-played character interaction is very different (which leads to unintended consequences). Use of the bonus mods just exacerbates the situation.

That's why cosmetic cybers give you one bonus and one penalty while tactical ones give you the opposite, So the more borged out PC's are more likely to have the NPCs run from them. I need a reaction table to fully flesh it out but I'm not about to make it since I do intend to keep using cyberpsychosis.

Think of it as a prejudice.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1092969That's why cosmetic cybers give you one bonus and one penalty while tactical ones give you the opposite, So the more borged out PC's are more likely to have the NPCs run from them. I need a reaction table to fully flesh it out but I'm not about to make it since I do intend to keep using cyberpsychosis.

Think of it as a prejudice.

Except that it is based on fashion, and fashions change so rapidly that unless a character spends most of their adventuring actually following fashion, what was "in" will rapidly become what is "out" and that is not even considering regional or subcultural variances.

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying that I wouldn't use it.

Quote from: jeff37923;1092981Except that it is based on fashion, and fashions change so rapidly that unless a character spends most of their adventuring actually following fashion, what was "in" will rapidly become what is "out" and that is not even considering regional or subcultural variances.

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying that I wouldn't use it.

Good point.

Quote from: jeff37923;1092965The problem that I can see with this bonus modification is that in play. I'd notice that the more borged out PCs would have Players use it like, "Intimidate is my Persuasion & Fast Talk!", so the nature of the role-played character interaction is very different (which leads to unintended consequences). Use of the bonus mods just exacerbates the situation.

I actually deal with this quite a bit in other games.

Here's the way I handle it: I let them do it.

Ironically it's players that believe that Intimidation is the same thing as Persuasion and Fast-Talking, that usually die from misusing Intimidate in my game. They're not the same. Intimidation pumps fear. It creates incredible levels of distrust. And while it might work in the short-term - and it should, if you're good at it. In the end - it isolates the character. When the *real* shit goes down, who is going to stand with them? The nearest guy within reach? Don't get me wrong, I think Intimidation is a perfectly fine and useful skill. If used well it *can* reasonably get a lot of things done. But it's our jobs as GM's to make sure that we react accordingly with the world around them.

Persuasion and Fast-talking is a means to make the person you're using it against feel "okay" with the exchange. I *want* my borged up asshole players Intimidating people. Because when that's done... the word will get around, especially if it's because they're loaded down with cyberware. When the word gets around, that reputation will affect the outcomes of other exchanges. It might attract the attention of C-SWAT. The extra friction generated by the overuse of Intimidate might harm the PC and rest of the crew in the long run.

Go watch Goodfellas. The scene where Morrie is supposed to pay up to Jimmy is literally Intimidation (Jimmy) and Persuasion (Henry) going at the same time. Ray Liotta's character is almost always all about Persuasion/Fast-Talk. https://youtu.be/JKDgjLf_rk4

I can't find a clip about it but later at the end of it - Henry persuades Morrie to stop busting Jimmy's balls about the money Jimmy now owes Morrie. https://youtu.be/tOWaHTlq-hI

The very demeanor of De Niro is the guy you're describing. Not an ounce of Persuasion. *Everything* is a degree of Intimidation. So let your players indulge. The big difference is if they're leveraging cyberware for the bonuses it might give them - then treat them like the fucking monsters they are.

Heh it also is kind of funny that people that try to pull that line "Intimidate is my Persuasion/Fast-Talk" tend to either 1) Not really believe it but say it in half-jest 2) are actually low-empathy people that will only understand the issue once someone puts a bullet in their character's head.

TL/DR - Let them indulge in being bullies. They don't last long in CP2020 if they abuse it.

Quote from: jeff37923;1092981Except that it is based on fashion, and fashions change so rapidly that unless a character spends most of their adventuring actually following fashion, what was "in" will rapidly become what is "out" and that is not even considering regional or subcultural variances.

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying that I wouldn't use it.

But just the same - if the meaning of such appearances loses its meaning - so too should the bonuses be lost. Right? Just keep it contextual. Because the point being is that cybering up *most* of the time, especially for appearances sake, is the whole point of "othering" yourself from the norm.

Who are you more visually scared of? a regular office-guy? or some dude with a face-full or piercings, tatts, and split tongue, with spacers in his ears wide enough to throw a donut through?

Resisting Intimidate is a Cool-check too. So "confident" characters SHOULD have a high Cool stat.

Quote from: tenbones;1092986I actually deal with this quite a bit in other games.

Here's the way I handle it: I let them do it.

Ironically it's players that believe that Intimidation is the same thing as Persuasion and Fast-Talking, that usually die from misusing Intimidate in my game. They're not the same. Intimidation pumps fear. It creates incredible levels of distrust. And while it might work in the short-term - and it should, if you're good at it. In the end - it isolates the character. When the *real* shit goes down, who is going to stand with them? The nearest guy within reach? Don't get me wrong, I think Intimidation is a perfectly fine and useful skill. If used well it *can* reasonably get a lot of things done. But it's our jobs as GM's to make sure that we react accordingly with the world around them.

Persuasion and Fast-talking is a means to make the person you're using it against feel "okay" with the exchange. I *want* my borged up asshole players Intimidating people. Because when that's done... the word will get around, especially if it's because they're loaded down with cyberware. When the word gets around, that reputation will affect the outcomes of other exchanges. It might attract the attention of C-SWAT. The extra friction generated by the overuse of Intimidate might harm the PC and rest of the crew in the long run.

I really dont see the point in turning a Players success into a negative.  There is no reason why a successful Intimidate check has to have any more negative effects then a successful Fast Talking check.  If a NPC is going to get a negative reaction to being bullied then they are just as likely to get one from being lied to

I can see a few negatives in a borged out PC running around intimidating people. It would be like putting up a neon sign for E-Swat to come give them a stern "lecture" on etiquette.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1093007I can see a few negatives in a borged out PC running around intimidating people. It would be like putting up a neon sign for E-Swat to come give them a stern "lecture" on etiquette.

What is the difference between a borged out PC intimidating people and a punk PC intimidating people and a cartel PC intimidating people and a skin head PC intimidating people?