So, what elements would you include in an RPG targeted at children?

For me, system would have to have simple range of stats, low to no math, lots of dice rolling and be concise/easy read. I do not think a massive tome of rules covering all aspects of reality would be needed or work well. However, the system would have to be intuitive so rules that were heavily abstracted or inferred would be a detriment.

Setting would be very important too. It would need to be intuitive also but not necessarily simple. Something like a cartoon, say Avatar or Fantstic Four. I think it should support no killing but have risk of loss involved; i.e. the bad guy wins or you are imprisoned, etc.

Oh, and I was thinking say 6-10  in terms of age but it would be cool to hear ideas about younger or older kids.

Bill

I'd make it a superhero game, and chargen would consist of the kids drawing their hero with crayons.  It would need a simple resolution system, maybe simple dice.  The GM could look over the kids sheet and assign them four dice worth of traits.  When you want to do something you roll a d6, with an extra d6 for the trait.  You roll against the GM who does something similar or assigns a target number.

So if the kid draws a hero with big muscles and a jetpack the traits might be Really Strong +3 and Flies On Jetpack +1.  When the hero punches a bad guy he'd roll 4d6.  A normal guy would only get 1d6, almost certainly getting knocked cold.

I've gamed a bit with my own daughter who is about that age, and I can almost guarantee that it's going to be more LARP than traditional RPG.  The kids will get animated and jump around describing their actions.

I had that thread a while back on this. I have since given Squirrel Attack a good look and I think Iridium (in present form) still a bit too much. To big, too many calculations I think. Not that kids can't do math, but it increases the learning curve to have that stuff there. Come to think of it something Amberish might work. Compare numbers. Whatever it is should be very universal applied, super low mechanics.

I've still look at The Princes' Kingdom, since it was purposely made for kids. Although I know it uses dice too.

Incidentally: I know someone here mentioned that it borrowed Dogs In The Vineyard mechanics, and from that the poster drew the conclusion that Forge games share mechanics. But I've since learned that isn't exactly the case. It is the entire DitV game redone (with permission) in a 'G' theme, and since it is essentially someone else's game Nixon doesn't actually make any money himself off of the sale.


And Madman is spot on about the LARPisg component of kids.  Kids are like radioactive uranimum. Reach a critical mass of them together and excitement bouncing back and forth runs away.

See Fighting Fantasy.

RPGPundit

Numbers and math are fine and all that, but I would seek to make the experience engaging. I think structuring the game more like a LARP is a good idea. I would also think that making the game activity oriented, like a qualitative, adjective based chargen that allows the kids to be creative and descriptive would be cool. And while dice are typical and also just fine, I would think that maybe a token resource resolution (large coins, colorful chits, beads) would make the game more more tactile and give the kids a more instinctive means of  keeping along with the game.

Kids love stuff, and an appealing game won't shy away from it.

Quote from: blakkieI had that thread a while back on this. I have since given Squirrel Attack a good look and I think Iridium (in present form) still a bit too much. To big, too many calculations I think. Not that kids can't do math, but it increases the learning curve to have that stuff there. Come to think of it something Amberish might work. Compare numbers. Whatever it is should be very universal applied, super low mechanics.

I can see that. Thus this thread. SA! can work with kids but I think a lot of it depends on how old and advanced they are. I have had great success with 10-12 year olds but they might have been advanced on the curve.

As said elsewhere int his thread, I would go for rolling a d6 and adding one number kind of resolution.

Bill

Quote from: MaddmanI've gamed a bit with my own daughter who is about that age, and I can almost guarantee that it's going to be more LARP than traditional RPG.  The kids will get animated and jump around describing their actions.

I wonder if a LARP approach would be better. Fuzzy Heroes had great success with their minis games because it was oriented at children playing with thier toys. You would stat up Mr. Teddy and he would battle Bunny Fluf-Fluf. It was great fun.

Bill

I'd say use some stuff from their other games, cartoons, comics... Is 6-10 already Pokemon-age? Then their memory is better than one might think. Some kind of cool special abilities would be all right. One-shot D&D feats, basically...

Quote from: HinterWeltAs said elsewhere int his thread, I would go for rolling a d6 and adding one number kind of resolution.

Once apon a time I did that sort of thing with my son to let him in on playing with our D&D group before he went to bed.  It was a super simple d6 thing that I sort of worked into the side. He wanted to be involved because, hey, minis are toys and he wanted some of that action. So we went through the mini bucket and picked out a dog mini. Named him Dongo. When the party fought while he was still up Dongo had a cursory roll. The people I played with were really cool about letting that eat up a little bit of the table time, but I worked hard to make sure it was as minimal and as non-intrusive as possible.

It's been a while now, but as I remember basically Dongo rolled a d6 and we marked off a box on the enemy for each pip. Special moves or actions? Didn't matter, same dice rolled, and he didn't feel cheated because he didn't have that sense of fairness of "I did something special so the mechanics had to show it". *shrug* YMMV as he isn't exactly a typical kid overall. EDIT: But then I suppose all kids are just as much individuals as adults, huh?

But really what I saw was that mostly it was the idea that it was Dongo doing things, and him moving the mini around was really important part of that. A fidget toy that kept his attention I suspect. Of course he was in an Air Bud phase at the time, so that might have had some influence there.

One thing I'd look at with any kids RPG is how it handles mortality (if at all, I suppose).   I'm not sure where to start with that, but there it is.

Again, see Fighting Fantasy. The model of a successful kids' rpg.

RPGpundit

Quote from: Zachary The FirstOne thing I'd look at with any kids RPG is how it handles mortality (if at all, I suppose).   I'm not sure where to start with that, but there it is.

I have to agree. I am not squimish about exposing children to death, it is part of the existance they live in but I know many parents who go to extreme lengths to keep their away from violence, especially death.

Fuzzy Heroes worked pretty well with this by saying the defeated toy went to sleep. Maybe just a euphemism for death but a good one that many parents could live with.

I still think the heart of it is as Maddman first mentioned and there needs to be more acting out than just sitting and talking. I like the idea of drawing their character then "statting" from the picture.

One point though, I see this as surpervised play. I do not think you could get away with children running for children...at least initially. Once rules are learned then I think it could much like cops and robbers.

That said though, I still see most of the action taking place on a table. Also, adventures should be short, perhaps within 1 hour. I think if it goes much more than that you will loose the attention of the children...and run out of patience as an adult.

Good ideas so far.

Bill

Quote from: RPGPunditAgain, see Fighting Fantasy. The model of a successful kids' rpg.

Not to split hairs, and I've only read a synopsis of them since I've never even heard of them before (successful?), but exactly how does that rank as an RPG in your eyes when you so readily dismiss so many other games as not being RPGs?

Not that they might not be fun for kids.  When I was in mid-to-late gradeschool I didn't mind Choose Your Own Adventure books, although even then I found their preset branching a decidedly flat experience.

EDIT: To further expound on that last paragraph, it felt any "control" I was given over the outcome wasn't real but instead more a shellgame than anything. There were a small, fixed number of paths and that was it. There wasn't even the illusion of it being open-ended.

Quote from: blakkieNot to split hairs, and I've only read a synopsis of them since I've never even heard of them before (successful?), but exactly how does that rank as an RPG in your eyes when you so readily dismiss so many other games as not being RPGs?

Eh, those gamebooks also served as the basis for an actual RPG by the same name. I'm assuming that's what Pundit is referring to.

Another possibility might be Prince Valiant, published by Chaosium but now long out of print.

What about the Teenagers From Outer Space rules?  Stat+Skill+1D6 against a target number or opposed roll.  Pretty much explanatory, and the freeform skills system may lend itself better to how kids might define a character than a set skill list.

Andrew