Let's say you're making a golden age superheroes campaign.
What kind of elements would you want the setting to have? What would you consider to be the important things for maintaining emulation of genre?
What kind of Golden Age Supers do you really want to see? The real Golden Age, as it was and not as we remember it, full of insane crap and extreme violence and prejudices of all kinds, and superheroes that aren't usually heroic as we think of them now? Like, almost pulp?
Or the Golden Age as seen through the length of the Silver, like later stories about the JSA or the All-Star Squadron comic?
Or more modern takes on the genre, post-silver age stuff? Stuff with more of a "realist" modern lens and a psychological drama bent? Watchmen? The Golden Age? The Sandman comics?
What stuff in general would you absolutely put into your campaign?
RPGPundit
If I were doing Golden Age, I'd nix the prejudices a bit. Tempered by wisdom of Solomon or something. I'd still include some of the violence, and especially the wonders of science and magic that got lost in the post-Iron whatever age by many comics. (Silver Age had a lot of it, buy it trickled away in the 70's and was gone by the late 80's)
Something was lost in the wonder of other worlds, and times, comics became mired in the "gritty now" and less about the strange explorations of the world, universe, mind, etc.
It's interesting it lasted so long but I'd like to go back to that. Good guys are good, but not perfectly polite deputized Silver Age figures. No they're still people with (usually) human outlooks.
Mind you I loved Marvel of the 70's-80's and am fond of some of the stuff DC was doing now (with the lamented new Blue Beetle, and pre-Blackest Night Green Lanterns)
I'm not sure what age that be.
Astro City is my favorite these days though I pick up collections everywhere.
I miss the wonder of thousands of aliens to meet, magical realms that invaded, strange science that was good and useful, and black and terrible, but never as twisted as the crimes we see on the pages now. Terrible, but still within the fantastic.
It is not the splendor of the single age, but the glory moments of them all.
The defeats, and triumphs.
Then there is always the wonders of Dr. Velocity.
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6980/drvelocity01a.th.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/drvelocity01a.jpg/)
He's glorious and totally anachronistic. Because I can do so with H&S2E
cool,man,how can i create a golden age supers campaign?
When you're talking Golden Age, that actually covers a few different genres. There's the super powerful and super moral characters like Superman and Captain Marvel (now Shazam) and then there's the low powered heroes like The Shadow, Batman, The Green Hornet, and The Phantom.
Personally, I liked the low power stuff a lot better. Mostly ordinary men with some kinds of minor edge cleaning up a film nior nightmare with grit and smarts. For me, one of the things about these comics that always stood out was the cars. Sure they had hideouts but it was always a garage too where they would have one or more modified cars. Car chases were always a staple of these stories. Aside from that, the other thing I remember is a lot of following bad guys, surveillance, and talking to informants. Now that I think about it, they were a lot more like detective stories where the main character had some minor power than super hero stories of the Silver Age.
Quote from: Ratguy on August 09, 2023, 03:42:16 PM
cool,man,how can i create a golden age supers campaign?
IMHO? Golden Age Champions
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/257097/The-Golden-Age-of-Champions-3rd-Edition (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/257097/The-Golden-Age-of-Champions-3rd-Edition)
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/207079/Golden-Age-Champions-4th-edition (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/207079/Golden-Age-Champions-4th-edition)
Add a small adventure to begin your campaign
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/257100/The-Island-of-Dr-Destroyer-1st-Edition?src=also_purchased (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/257100/The-Island-of-Dr-Destroyer-1st-Edition?src=also_purchased)
It doesn't count unless you can have a cartoonishly stereotypical minority character as a sidekick.
Why did you mind go to a black guy? I meant a comic-relief Irishman, you must just be a racist.
Quote from: Grognard GM on August 09, 2023, 04:13:46 PM
It doesn't count unless you can have a cartoonishly stereotypical minority character as a sidekick.
Why did you mind go to a black guy? I meant a comic-relief Irishman, you must just be a racist.
I, sir, find great fault with your logic! Robin wasn't Irish.
Edit: my @$^*ing fat fingers
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
Quote from: Tod13 on August 10, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
Wow,that is so cool
Give me more examples.
Quote from: Ratguy on August 10, 2023, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: Tod13 on August 10, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
Wow,that is so cool
Give me more examples.
Try this one for size, pay close attention to archetypes.
https://www.d20herosrd.com/ (https://www.d20herosrd.com/)
If you like that one then you might be interested in buying this one:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/172576/Guardians (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/172576/Guardians)
Would 1980's X-men by Chris Clairmont and John Byrne be considered golden age?
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 10, 2023, 12:21:55 PM
Would 1980's X-men by Chris Clairmont and John Byrne be considered golden age?
I used Wikipedia, which defines it as before Fantastic Four #1 (1960s).
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 10, 2023, 12:21:55 PM
Would 1980's X-men by Chris Clairmont and John Byrne be considered golden age?
While those are great no, the Golden Age has a definitive time period.
Golden Age: 1938 (first appearance of Superman) to 1954 (introduction of the Comics Code)
Silver Age: 1956 to early 1970s.
Bronze Age: 1970s to 1986.
Modern Age:1986 until today.
Edited to add:
We're now in a transition period, what with the mainstream American Comic Book Industry self destroying. The guys driving the renewal cxall it the Iron Age, they're trying to return to a more Pulp + Golden Age style of writting.
I would opt for the real Golden Age - as in Alan Scott using his fists more than his green lantern and weird pulp stuff, but none of the more coherent silver age 60s mysticism. As to the prejudice levels - I don't think I would take it to Tin Tin in the Congo levels, but the golden age should have characters like Per Degaton or Captain Nazi to 'feel' right.
A great resource is Jess Nevins's "Encyclopedia of Golden Age Superheroes", available on Amazon and elsewhere. An encylopedia-style entry for hundreds from the era, including citations to where they appeared and crossovers appearances as well.
Quote from: Grognard GM on August 09, 2023, 04:13:46 PM
It doesn't count unless you can have a cartoonishly stereotypical minority character as a sidekick.
Why did you mind go to a black guy? I meant a comic-relief Irishman, you must just be a racist.
I'll admit mine went to a generic East Asian character...label him whatever country/culture you want...he's a generic stereotype so can be any.
Quote from: Tod13 on August 10, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
I'd probably nix all but invention, but focus on the fact there are so many kinds: gadgets, training beyond that of mortal men, mystical. I guess mystical and training can shade into intervention and born.
An interesting setup might be a cross between X-Men's Mansion/School and a Father Flanagan type running a Boy's Town that provides superhuman training to wayward boys. Those who complete the program become the mystery men of the setting (with the power levels that implies) while some of the villains could be drop-outs.
Quote from: PulpHerb on August 12, 2023, 08:35:24 PM
Quote from: Tod13 on August 10, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
I'd probably nix all but invention, but focus on the fact there are so many kinds: gadgets, training beyond that of mortal men, mystical. I guess mystical and training can shade into intervention and born.
An interesting setup might be a cross between X-Men's Mansion/School and a Father Flanagan type running a Boy's Town that provides superhuman training to wayward boys. Those who complete the program become the mystery men of the setting (with the power levels that implies) while some of the villains could be drop-outs.
May we know why? That's a pretty strong preference to just drop and not expand on.
Quote from: Grognard GM on August 12, 2023, 09:32:07 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on August 12, 2023, 08:35:24 PM
Quote from: Tod13 on August 10, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
I would want to have the game keep the idea that there are at least three paths to becoming a superhero.
Being born to it. (Superman and Wonder Woman)
Being interventioned into it (Shazaam and Captain America)
Being invented into it (Batman)
and I guess a fourth
Being side-kicked into it (Robin)
I'd probably nix all but invention, but focus on the fact there are so many kinds: gadgets, training beyond that of mortal men, mystical. I guess mystical and training can shade into intervention and born.
An interesting setup might be a cross between X-Men's Mansion/School and a Father Flanagan type running a Boy's Town that provides superhuman training to wayward boys. Those who complete the program become the mystery men of the setting (with the power levels that implies) while some of the villains could be drop-outs.
May we know why? That's a pretty strong preference to just drop and not expand on.
Same here.
Quote from: Silverlion on July 26, 2010, 06:37:40 AM
Astro City is my favorite these days though I pick up collections everywhere.
I miss the wonder of thousands of aliens to meet, magical realms that invaded, strange science that was good and useful, and black and terrible, but never as twisted as the crimes we see on the pages now. Terrible, but still within the fantastic.
Amen brother. Astro City is fantastic, best reconstruction of superheroes I've read.
Quote from: Silverlion on July 26, 2010, 06:37:40 AM
Then there is always the wonders of Dr. Velocity.
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6980/drvelocity01a.th.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/drvelocity01a.jpg/)
He's glorious and totally anachronistic. Because I can do so with H&S2E
I'm a little disappointed the image you were adding didn't seem to work.
To the main OP questionI ran a handful of sessions set in 1952 "Artifice City" recently for my game Simple Superheroes and was going for a more Golden Age vibe. I think part of this is a sort of "any wacky idea goes" mentality.
In our adventure an major villain had the ability to give people there dreams and then control them a little -- so a kid became a Knight and another dreamed of being big and became a giant. A man dreamed he was a famous hockey player and so he was, and another just wanted to fly like he used to in the war . . . so he did.
One of the key facets for me was dialing in on hope and optimism. People are (widespread) getting electricity, telephones and even televisions for the first time. Science appears like it can solve everything.
X thing might be bad, but it like everything else it will be better in the future.
One of the challenges I found was slowing down the pacing a bit. Letting days of investigation pass as needed. Arranging meetings ahead of time, or places you can be found (Bob yeah he's usually here every Tuesday and Wednesday.) Communication between characters slows down a lot -- unless you have a telepath!
Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2010, 06:20:17 AM
Let's say you're making a golden age superheroes campaign.
What kind of elements would you want the setting to have? What would you consider to be the important things for maintaining emulation of genre?
What kind of Golden Age Supers do you really want to see? The real Golden Age, as it was and not as we remember it, full of insane crap and extreme violence and prejudices of all kinds, and superheroes that aren't usually heroic as we think of them now? Like, almost pulp?
Or the Golden Age as seen through the length of the Silver, like later stories about the JSA or the All-Star Squadron comic?
Or more modern takes on the genre, post-silver age stuff? Stuff with more of a "realist" modern lens and a psychological drama bent? Watchmen? The Golden Age? The Sandman comics?
What stuff in general would you absolutely put into your campaign?
RPGPundit
Golden Age of comics was the 20's-50's so:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Patriotism
- U.S. alcohol ban/Prohibition era
- Smoking indoors
- WWII
- Radio more widespread than TV
- Books and magazine more widespread than TV
- Black & white films/photography was more common
- Formal clothing was the norm
What's important to remember is Golden Age comics writers were creating more gritty realistic stories more like modern fiction. The elites didn't like it so they created the Comics Code (1954) which limited what kinds of stories comics could feature, which led to the silly storylines of the Silver Age.
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 16, 2023, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2010, 06:20:17 AM
Let's say you're making a golden age superheroes campaign.
What kind of elements would you want the setting to have? What would you consider to be the important things for maintaining emulation of genre?
What kind of Golden Age Supers do you really want to see? The real Golden Age, as it was and not as we remember it, full of insane crap and extreme violence and prejudices of all kinds, and superheroes that aren't usually heroic as we think of them now? Like, almost pulp?
Or the Golden Age as seen through the length of the Silver, like later stories about the JSA or the All-Star Squadron comic?
Or more modern takes on the genre, post-silver age stuff? Stuff with more of a "realist" modern lens and a psychological drama bent? Watchmen? The Golden Age? The Sandman comics?
What stuff in general would you absolutely put into your campaign?
RPGPundit
Golden Age of comics was the 20's-50's so:
- Patriotism
- U.S. alcohol ban/Prohibition era
- Smoking indoors
- WWII
- Radio more widespread than TV
- Books and magazine more widespread than TV
- Black & white films/photography was more common
- Formal clothing was the norm
What's important to remember is Golden Age comics writers were creating more gritty realistic stories more like modern fiction. The elites didn't like it so they created the Comics Code (1954) which limited what kinds of stories comics could feature, which led to the silly storylines of the Silver Age.
Yeah no thanks, I'd fudge or minimalize that stuff.
Not for snowflake reasons, but simply because I am so fucking tired of it dominating all media. We're close to a decade into 'everything set in the past must be about Racism and Sexism.' History is taken and then boiled down into these two things, like nothing else interesting ever happened. Black character in the 50's? Here's you racism story arc.
BORING.[/list]
To be honest, I kind of miss the Comics Code.
Wolverine was a lot cooler when there were norms for him to be transgressing.
Also, if you want a setting where your heroes are heroes to the general public, then the heroes need to be acting heroically most of the time.
Quote from: Grognard GM on August 16, 2023, 10:32:28 AM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 16, 2023, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2010, 06:20:17 AM
Let's say you're making a golden age superheroes campaign.
What kind of elements would you want the setting to have? What would you consider to be the important things for maintaining emulation of genre?
What kind of Golden Age Supers do you really want to see? The real Golden Age, as it was and not as we remember it, full of insane crap and extreme violence and prejudices of all kinds, and superheroes that aren't usually heroic as we think of them now? Like, almost pulp?
Or the Golden Age as seen through the length of the Silver, like later stories about the JSA or the All-Star Squadron comic?
Or more modern takes on the genre, post-silver age stuff? Stuff with more of a "realist" modern lens and a psychological drama bent? Watchmen? The Golden Age? The Sandman comics?
What stuff in general would you absolutely put into your campaign?
RPGPundit
Golden Age of comics was the 20's-50's so:
- Patriotism
- U.S. alcohol ban/Prohibition era
- Smoking indoors
- WWII
- Radio more widespread than TV
- Books and magazine more widespread than TV
- Black & white films/photography was more common
- Formal clothing was the norm
What's important to remember is Golden Age comics writers were creating more gritty realistic stories more like modern fiction. The elites didn't like it so they created the Comics Code (1954) which limited what kinds of stories comics could feature, which led to the silly storylines of the Silver Age.
Yeah no thanks, I'd fudge or minimalize that stuff.
Not for snowflake reasons, but simply because I am so fucking tired of it dominating all media. We're close to a decade into 'everything set in the past must be about Racism and Sexism.' History is taken and then boiled down into these two things, like nothing else interesting ever happened. Black character in the 50's? Here's you racism story arc.
BORING.[/list]
Whew! Thank goodness it was Pundit asking, right? ;D
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 16, 2023, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on August 16, 2023, 10:32:28 AM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 16, 2023, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2010, 06:20:17 AM
Let's say you're making a golden age superheroes campaign.
What kind of elements would you want the setting to have? What would you consider to be the important things for maintaining emulation of genre?
What kind of Golden Age Supers do you really want to see? The real Golden Age, as it was and not as we remember it, full of insane crap and extreme violence and prejudices of all kinds, and superheroes that aren't usually heroic as we think of them now? Like, almost pulp?
Or the Golden Age as seen through the length of the Silver, like later stories about the JSA or the All-Star Squadron comic?
Or more modern takes on the genre, post-silver age stuff? Stuff with more of a "realist" modern lens and a psychological drama bent? Watchmen? The Golden Age? The Sandman comics?
What stuff in general would you absolutely put into your campaign?
RPGPundit
Golden Age of comics was the 20's-50's so:
- Patriotism
- U.S. alcohol ban/Prohibition era
- Smoking indoors
- WWII
- Radio more widespread than TV
- Books and magazine more widespread than TV
- Black & white films/photography was more common
- Formal clothing was the norm
What's important to remember is Golden Age comics writers were creating more gritty realistic stories more like modern fiction. The elites didn't like it so they created the Comics Code (1954) which limited what kinds of stories comics could feature, which led to the silly storylines of the Silver Age.
Yeah no thanks, I'd fudge or minimalize that stuff.
Not for snowflake reasons, but simply because I am so fucking tired of it dominating all media. We're close to a decade into 'everything set in the past must be about Racism and Sexism.' History is taken and then boiled down into these two things, like nothing else interesting ever happened. Black character in the 50's? Here's you racism story arc.
BORING.[/list]
Whew! Thank goodness it was Pundit asking, right? ;D
I apologize for hacking your PM to Pundit, and giving my unsolicited opinions. Oh no, wait, you posted in a public forum.
I currently run a Golden Age ICONS game as an alternate/side game to my group's D&D game. Several of the players dig it more than the regular campaign.
Since I'm old (55) and my players are young (~30), I found a few touchstones to help get them in the genre. These aren't mechanical, but more thematic in nature. Also, things they had probably seen/heard of, or at least easy enough to show them.
1. The first Captain America movie
2. The Rocketeer movie
3. The Phantom movie (with Billy Zane)... great visuals of the period. Worth it for the window dressing alone.
4. The first Wonder Woman movie (WW I instead of WW II, but thematically captures the mood IMO)
5. Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
For myself, I've read a ton of original Golden Age comics, and draw from them, as well as ideas from Roy Thomas' All Star series and other Silver Age renditions of the period. Some great sources I've used for ideas/inspiration:
1. The Golden Age (comic mini-series/TBP by James Robinson & Paul Smith... really reinvigorated my interest in the genre)
2. Golden Age Champions by Chris Cloutier. Published by HERO games for Champions, has a ton of villains, timelines, period source material.
3. Vigilance Press' ICONS sourcebooks from the "Amazing Stories of World War II" line. Highly recommend giving these a look on DriveThruRPG. I use a lot of it verbatim in my campaign.
Hope that helps!
How do you run Golden Age w/o racism and sexism? It's why Call of Cthulhu is BS.
Stop pretending the 20s are the fkn 80s >:(
I don't. I just don't glorify it. It exists, and it's bad. The heroes (for the most part) are assumed to be better than that.
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 21, 2023, 06:03:58 PM
How do you run Golden Age w/o racism and sexism? It's why Call of Cthulhu is BS.
Stop pretending the 20s are the fkn 80s >:(
Quote from: Brigman on August 21, 2023, 06:17:46 PM
I don't. I just don't glorify it. It exists, and it's bad. The heroes (for the most part) are assumed to be better than that.
This relates to a previous thread on Alexander Macris' categories for morality in historical-ish games.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/moral-values-in-fantasy-worlds/
Having Golden Age heroes be non-racist and non-sexist is Macris' category of "presentism".
I think it's an interesting conundrum of modern politics. I play a lot of 1920s horror games because of Call of Cthulhu, and I have sometimes (though not always) taken the "historicist" approach -- meaning a PC who is racist and/or sexist as was the norm in the 1920s.
I feel like this doesn't go over well with many liberal players because they prefer more egalitarian morals. However, it also doesn't go over well with many conservative players because the old-fashioned PCs come across as unsympathetic for their overt prejudice.
It's definitely a tricky issue.
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 12:26:29 AM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 21, 2023, 06:03:58 PM
How do you run Golden Age w/o racism and sexism? It's why Call of Cthulhu is BS.
Stop pretending the 20s are the fkn 80s >:(
Quote from: Brigman on August 21, 2023, 06:17:46 PM
I don't. I just don't glorify it. It exists, and it's bad. The heroes (for the most part) are assumed to be better than that.
This relates to a previous thread on Alexander Macris' categories for morality in historical-ish games.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/moral-values-in-fantasy-worlds/
Having Golden Age heroes be non-racist and non-sexist is Macris' category of "presentism".
I think it's an interesting conundrum of modern politics. I play a lot of 1920s horror games because of Call of Cthulhu, and I have sometimes (though not always) taken the "historicist" approach -- meaning a PC who is racist and/or sexist as was the norm in the 1920s.
I feel like this doesn't go over well with many liberal players because they prefer more egalitarian morals. However, it also doesn't go over well with many conservative players because the old-fashioned PCs come across as unsympathetic for their overt prejudice.
It's definitely a tricky issue.
So, it's your contention that ALL Golden Age Heroes were both of those huh? I would love to see the evidence for this extraordinary claim. Maybe a thread in entertainment or Pundit's forum?
"Sexism" and "Racism" are not what people pretend they are these days. Were people treated differently in the "Golden Age"? Sure. Because times were different. The concept of being a racist back then meant something truer than the flexible slap-boxing word that gets bandied around today. If you make an observation about a cultures specific practices, odds are that some liberal leaning asshole will jump on it to virtue signal and go full "Reeeee!!!" and yell racism, regardless if it's true.
Jingoism is a more appropriate "vibe" that I'd use. And it's perfectly acceptable to use it at your table. But I'd say so is actual racism, slavery and genocide if that's what the game calls for. I find it *BIZARRE* that people try to calibrate publicly what is acceptable as if the people at your table are total strangers. That could be the case, but that's why as fucking adults you let those strangers know what your offering, and they can decide to exercise the one right that all players have: the right to not play.
I think Golden Age Supers should explore jingoist themes, racist themes revolving around political movements could definitely be a thing worth dealing with in the right campaign. But to sit here and wring hands over conjecture of what is/isn't "right" is stupid. What's right is what you as the GM make gameable content.
Golden Age Supers is about LOTS of crime and corruption and badass people masking up and taking it to them within a code of justice they will elaborate on as they go. Not everyone is the same, but the point is to seek Justice. Whatever that means to you - is grist for the mill.
Corrupt Politicians, Organized Crime, Cults, Industrialist Psychopaths, Foreign Communist/Socialists - all trying to take over the world/city/neighborhood the PC's have risen up to protect by whatever means appropriate? Yeah - that's cool shit. The devil in the details is for the GM to set that standard.
Edit: one of the reasons I was booted out of TBP because someone asked if using the term "Jap" is bad for their WWII "realistic" war campaign. And I said "Sure. if you're being realistic." (I'm part Japanese btw) I got reamed by some white-chick about how dare I advocate that, because not all white people would use that language... I posted a newspaper article from the post-Pearl Harbor event, NYT - "60% of Americans want all Japanese Americans to be executed." Now... 1) nowhere did I mention "white people" 2)nor did I say players have to do/say anything. But as the GM - you set the standard. If your players are that sensitive, and it bugs you, they probably shouldn't be playing TTRPG's with you.
To me it's about standing in a soapbox to scream how virtuous they are and those old times were istophobic, ergo you should include those themes AND denounce them, or you shouldn't include them because people might become istophobes just by figthing the bad guys.
Speaking of "presentism", isn't judging the Golden Age Comics sexist and racist exactly that?
IMNSHO you should include whatever you think fits your world and players.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 01:46:11 AM
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 12:26:29 AM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 21, 2023, 06:03:58 PM
How do you run Golden Age w/o racism and sexism? It's why Call of Cthulhu is BS.
Stop pretending the 20s are the fkn 80s >:(
Quote from: Brigman on August 21, 2023, 06:17:46 PM
I don't. I just don't glorify it. It exists, and it's bad. The heroes (for the most part) are assumed to be better than that.
This relates to a previous thread on Alexander Macris' categories for morality in historical-ish games.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/moral-values-in-fantasy-worlds/
Having Golden Age heroes be non-racist and non-sexist is Macris' category of "presentism".
I think it's an interesting conundrum of modern politics. I play a lot of 1920s horror games because of Call of Cthulhu, and I have sometimes (though not always) taken the "historicist" approach -- meaning a PC who is racist and/or sexist as was the norm in the 1920s.
I feel like this doesn't go over well with many liberal players because they prefer more egalitarian morals. However, it also doesn't go over well with many conservative players because the old-fashioned PCs come across as unsympathetic for their overt prejudice.
It's definitely a tricky issue.
So, it's your contention that ALL Golden Age Heroes were both of those huh? I would love to see the evidence for this extraordinary claim. Maybe a thread in entertainment or Pundit's forum?
No, I did not intend that. It is my contention that assuming the heroes are "better than that" (as Brigman suggests) is ahistorical. Racism and sexism were the norm in the 1940s - such as support for segregation and anti-miscegenation laws.
Even a relatively inclusive hero, like Eisner's The Spirit - who has a black sidekick - would likely be controversial. The Spirit was one of the more inclusive comics, and he displays no animus towards black people. Still, he could come across as patronizing towards Ebony and Ebony's pals.
If I played a parallel to The Spirit with a black sidekick Ebony in a Golden Age heroes campaign, I suspect I'd make many players uncomfortable - including both left-leaning and right-leaning.
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 02:42:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 01:46:11 AM
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 12:26:29 AM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 21, 2023, 06:03:58 PM
How do you run Golden Age w/o racism and sexism? It's why Call of Cthulhu is BS.
Stop pretending the 20s are the fkn 80s >:(
Quote from: Brigman on August 21, 2023, 06:17:46 PM
I don't. I just don't glorify it. It exists, and it's bad. The heroes (for the most part) are assumed to be better than that.
This relates to a previous thread on Alexander Macris' categories for morality in historical-ish games.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/moral-values-in-fantasy-worlds/
Having Golden Age heroes be non-racist and non-sexist is Macris' category of "presentism".
I think it's an interesting conundrum of modern politics. I play a lot of 1920s horror games because of Call of Cthulhu, and I have sometimes (though not always) taken the "historicist" approach -- meaning a PC who is racist and/or sexist as was the norm in the 1920s.
I feel like this doesn't go over well with many liberal players because they prefer more egalitarian morals. However, it also doesn't go over well with many conservative players because the old-fashioned PCs come across as unsympathetic for their overt prejudice.
It's definitely a tricky issue.
So, it's your contention that ALL Golden Age Heroes were both of those huh? I would love to see the evidence for this extraordinary claim. Maybe a thread in entertainment or Pundit's forum?
No, I did not intend that. It is my contention that assuming the heroes are "better than that" (as Brigman suggests) is ahistorical. Racism and sexism were the norm in the 1940s - such as support for segregation and anti-miscegenation laws.
Even a relatively inclusive hero, like Eisner's The Spirit - who has a black sidekick - would likely be controversial. The Spirit was one of the more inclusive comics, and he displays no animus towards black people. Still, he could come across as patronizing towards Ebony and Ebony's pals.
If I played a parallel to The Spirit with a black sidekick Ebony in a Golden Age heroes campaign, I suspect I'd make many players uncomfortable - including both left-leaning and right-leaning.
Which is important ONLY if you plan on having the game take place in the ACTUAL 1940s.
I don't need to do so to have the feel of Golden Age Supers, there are several ways:
Go the BTAS route and emulate the feel, the heroic ethos and the aesthetic but in a "modern" era. This is a "The Future as it never was" setting.
Have it take place in an alternate 1940s Earth that looks almost like the real one with some key differences at your choosing and preference.
Those are just two workarounds, I play/GM to have fun not to replicate/emmulate/simmulate real world issues at the cost of the fun. Which doesn't mean including those issues will ruin the fun for everybody ALL the time, but unles you're playing an anti-hero or in a morally grey world or evil PCs most people would balk at playing a racist or mysoggynist (the real kind not the progressive redefinition of those terms).
So, since I want to have fun, my players want to have fun and most people wouldn't want to play those types of characters (and since most superheroes of the time weren't) I choose to either not present the situation or to include it as something the bad guys do.
Not out of some moral superiority regarding people back then, but because I want to have fun not to judge or to simmulate real life.
But as always, in your table you do as you wish, as long as you're not trying to imposse on others or browbeating others for not playing YOUR way I have no beef.
No. You'd only make players that are ignorant with acquired conditioning uncomfortable.
Anyone that is self-aware enough to understand history and is not so narcissistic to project their own uninformed feelings into a game about make-believe is probably not really suited for adult games. If that's the kind of game you want to run for those kinds of people, then you're fine.
I'm not being sarcastic either - I do understand running games appropriate for the players, like children. But adults that are effectively, emotionally stunted, I don't have time for. Your mileage may vary.
Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 03:42:32 PM
No. You'd only make players that are ignorant with acquired conditioning uncomfortable.
Anyone that is self-aware enough to understand history and is not so narcissistic to project their own uninformed feelings into a game about make-believe is probably not really suited for adult games. If that's the kind of game you want to run for those kinds of people, then you're fine.
I'm not being sarcastic either - I do understand running games appropriate for the players, like children. But adults that are effectively, emotionally stunted, I don't have time for. Your mileage may vary.
I'm not sure how much we're disagreeing. Independent of your judgement of them, would you agree that many such players exist - who would find it off-putting to have The Spirit and Ebony in a Golden Age heroes campaign?
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 03:42:32 PM
No. You'd only make players that are ignorant with acquired conditioning uncomfortable.
Anyone that is self-aware enough to understand history and is not so narcissistic to project their own uninformed feelings into a game about make-believe is probably not really suited for adult games. If that's the kind of game you want to run for those kinds of people, then you're fine.
I'm not being sarcastic either - I do understand running games appropriate for the players, like children. But adults that are effectively, emotionally stunted, I don't have time for. Your mileage may vary.
I'm not sure how much we're disagreeing. Independent of your judgement of them, would you agree that many such players exist - who would find it off-putting to have The Spirit and Ebony in a Golden Age heroes campaign?
You keep bringing up The Spirit, but he was
1) Not published as a Comic Book but as a Sunday Newspaper Suplement for an ADULT public
2) He's Noir and Pulp, not sure he fits into superheroes
3) Sure, Ebony White, but what about Detective Grey? (You see I happen to have bought and read it when it was published outside of newspapers.)
You're taking a point of data and pretending it's the whole, now you can also cite the WWII comics, when they were being used as war propaganda, yes, those exist, so what?
Contrary to what many want to believe Comic Books weren't like The Watchmen.
Again, most superheroes weren't racists or sexists, heck they worked with Wonder Woman.
Furthermore, you're obviating or forgetting other black characters, I'll cite a few:
Lothar from Mandrake the Magician
Red Mask
All Negro (sic) Comics, written, drawn and published by black people. Look it up, you'll find some interesting stuff.
So, again, go play as you wish, but stop pushing the "If you're not making your superheroes istophobes you're playing it wrong because presentism!"
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 04:49:46 PM
Again, most superheroes weren't racists or sexists, heck they worked with Wonder Woman.
Furthermore, you're obviating or forgetting other black characters, I'll cite a few:
Lothar from Mandrake the Magician
Red Mask
All Negro (sic) Comics, written, drawn and published by black people. Look it up, you'll find some interesting stuff.
So, again, go play as you wish, but stop pushing the "If you're not making your superheroes istophobes you're playing it wrong because presentism!"
So here is Lothar, described as "Mandrake's giant black servant".
(https://deepjuillet.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/img_8005-e1571832800691.jpg) (https://deepjuillet.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/img_8003-e1571832752523.jpg)
As implied in the right image, Golden Age Lothar speaks in broken English, like "Do us have to?" and "Me smell smoke."
I'd assert that having original Mandrake and Lothar in a Golden Age heroes RPG would be roughly as controversial as The Spirit and Ebony.
I had a character like this in an old
old pulp adventure (https://darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/pulp_adventure/) (HERO System) that I ran several times at conventions, named "Gadura, the Malaysian Mammoth". As a con game, I offset this with added background that Gadura is actually quite intelligent as well as well-spoken in his native Malay language - and could speak in that with one of the other PCs. So that subverted the stereotype.
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 07:43:25 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 04:49:46 PM
Again, most superheroes weren't racists or sexists, heck they worked with Wonder Woman.
Furthermore, you're obviating or forgetting other black characters, I'll cite a few:
Lothar from Mandrake the Magician
Red Mask
All Negro (sic) Comics, written, drawn and published by black people. Look it up, you'll find some interesting stuff.
So, again, go play as you wish, but stop pushing the "If you're not making your superheroes istophobes you're playing it wrong because presentism!"
So here is Lothar, described as "Mandrake's giant black servant".
(https://deepjuillet.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/img_8005-e1571832800691.jpg) (https://deepjuillet.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/img_8003-e1571832752523.jpg)
As implied in the right image, Golden Age Lothar speaks in broken English, like "Do us have to?" and "Me smell smoke."
I'd assert that having original Mandrake and Lothar in a Golden Age heroes RPG would be roughly as controversial as The Spirit and Ebony.
I had a character like this in an old old pulp adventure (https://darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/pulp_adventure/) (HERO System) that I ran several times at conventions, named "Gadura, the Malaysian Mammoth". As a con game, I offset this with added background that Gadura is actually quite intelligent as well as well-spoken in his native Malay language - and could speak in that with one of the other PCs. So that subverted the stereotype.
Tell me you never read Mandrake without telling me you never read Mandrake.
Lothar is a prince among his people, he was captured by slavers and rescued by Mandrake, then Lothar swears to serve him, he's Mandrake's bodyguard, valet, man friday and friend. It's a guy from Africa, that learned English as a second language and without school, do you think he should speak proper posh British English?
The problem you face is that you're aerguing about this stuff with someone deeply rooted into the culture who doesn't need to go to wikipedia or to some MariSue or other leftist publication to make a point.
Again, go play as you like, make it 2023 seattle for all I care, just stop with the browbeating people who don't play like you.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 07:52:33 PM
Tell me you never read Mandrake without telling me you never read Mandrake.
Lothar is a prince among his people, he was captured by slavers and rescued by Mandrake, then Lothar swears to serve him, he's Mandrake's bodyguard, valet, man friday and friend. It's a guy from Africa, that learned English as a second language and without school, do you think he should speak proper posh British English?
The problem you face is that you're aerguing about this stuff with someone deeply rooted into the culture who doesn't need to go to wikipedia or to some MariSue or other leftist publication to make a point.
Lothar being a prince who goes to being loyal manservant and bodyguard isn't breaking out of the box as far as stereotypes.
Mandrake wasn't regular reading of mine - though I knew of him, but I've read a fair amount of Golden Age comics: notably Terry & the Pirates, Tintin, The Spirit, Batman, and Wonder Woman, among others. The images I get obviously come from web search, but my general impressions of Golden Age comics come from reading the actual source material. I don't have any Mandrake comics in print here at home, but here are some complete comics featuring him from the Golden Age, for example:
https://pappysgoldenage.blogspot.com/2015/05/number-1739-warning-werewolves.html
https://pappysgoldenage.blogspot.com/2020/06/number-2436-mandrake-lothar-molly-and.html
Would you say that these are representative examples of Mandrake and Lothar from the Golden Age?
Quote from: jhkim on August 23, 2023, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 03:42:32 PM
No. You'd only make players that are ignorant with acquired conditioning uncomfortable.
Anyone that is self-aware enough to understand history and is not so narcissistic to project their own uninformed feelings into a game about make-believe is probably not really suited for adult games. If that's the kind of game you want to run for those kinds of people, then you're fine.
I'm not being sarcastic either - I do understand running games appropriate for the players, like children. But adults that are effectively, emotionally stunted, I don't have time for. Your mileage may vary.
I'm not sure how much we're disagreeing. Independent of your judgement of them, would you agree that many such players exist - who would find it off-putting to have The Spirit and Ebony in a Golden Age heroes campaign?
I acknowledge ignorant immature adult dumbasses exist. No I do not care about their feelings. I do not have those kinds of people in my orbit. They offer nothing of value to me, personally. But by all means they should find someone that will tolerate them at their table.
You are *ignoring* that contextually I do not find The Spirit (as my collection of Eisner's work will attest to) nor Ebony, "off putting". They're a product of their time and while it might be not the best representation of an idea, I don't find them offensive. No more than I hold other cultures standards from 4-days or 400-years ago offensive to me. I'm an adult.
Do you think Bruce Wayne was a pedophile? Or that Wonderwoman is a bondage enthusiast? More importantly - do you think it has any impact on the reality of grown adults?
Quote from: tenbones on August 24, 2023, 01:58:58 AM
You are *ignoring* that contextually I do not find The Spirit (as my collection of Eisner's work will attest to) nor Ebony, "off putting". They're a product of their time and while it might be not the best representation of an idea, I don't find them offensive. No more than I hold other cultures standards from 4-days or 400-years ago offensive to me. I'm an adult.
I am not ignoring that. Your opinions are your own, and I'm not claiming anything about your opinions or reactions.
To set this as a more specific scene --
Let's say there's a Golden Age heroes RPG event at a convention, where players can create their own characters. Let's say I create a sidekick character like Ebony White as my PC. I play him as he is portrayed in the original comics - not better or worse, but representatively.
I don't know how you (tenbones) would react if you were also in that game. However, I do think that some of other players are likely to find it off-putting.
Quote from: jhkim on August 24, 2023, 03:13:29 AM
Quote from: tenbones on August 24, 2023, 01:58:58 AM
You are *ignoring* that contextually I do not find The Spirit (as my collection of Eisner's work will attest to) nor Ebony, "off putting". They're a product of their time and while it might be not the best representation of an idea, I don't find them offensive. No more than I hold other cultures standards from 4-days or 400-years ago offensive to me. I'm an adult.
I am not ignoring that. Your opinions are your own, and I'm not claiming anything about your opinions or reactions.
To set this as a more specific scene --
Let's say there's a Golden Age heroes RPG event at a convention, where players can create their own characters. Let's say I create a sidekick character like Ebony White as my PC. I play him as he is portrayed in the original comics - not better or worse, but representatively.
I don't know how you (tenbones) would react if you were also in that game. However, I do think that some of other players are likely to find it off-putting.
And so what is your point? Are you hanging your entire point of discussion on the fact that because someone *could* act inappropriate, in the wrong setting with the wrong people present ... what? We shouldn't engage in the content?
Convention play *is* different than play at the privacy of your own table.
I don't let just anyone sit down at my table to play, as I run for sane adults. But when I run for children, or mixed company, like in a convention - I focus on the goal of the adventure. Campaign play vs. One-shots are also different. If you're trying to insinuate that Golden Age Comics *must* have content that modern idiots would find offensive in order to be authentic - I would say you have a microscopic point that only underscores the larger issue: People today, generally, are morons. And they want to be coddled for their sensitivities and their fetishes that make them morons.
If *you* are okay with that - in whatever fashion that allows you to engage with people with those issues, imaginary or not, great! It doesn't mean you don't have to be an asshole GM just because a player is being an asshole. If you were playing like that, it would be a reflection on you, not me. I would roleplay accordingly. Just like when I'm at a convention and someone is a murderhobo. If my character didn't tolerate that - yeah I'd deal with your PC personally. If my PC was down with it - I might join in. Depends. In a convention setting, I do what I always do as a player, I play my character as my character is supposed to be played (at least in my mind).
Still don't know what your point is? GM's can always tell a player to GTFO, if they don't like their antics. I usually just let things take their course and enforce the setting upon them. Acting like an asshole at my table is trivial to deal with. I don't pretend to control other's feelings. That's a fools errand, I just put on a good game since that's what I'm there to do.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 01:49:00 PM
To me it's about standing in a soapbox to scream how virtuous they are and those old times were istophobic, ergo you should include those themes AND denounce them, or you shouldn't include them because people might become istophobes just by figthing the bad guys.
Speaking of "presentism", isn't judging the Golden Age Comics sexist and racist exactly that?
IMNSHO you should include whatever you think fits your world and players.
So.
I'm curious. Is it wrong to call the socially-rampant Racism and Sexism of the 20s
wrong?Because it was very real. I know because of reading about it and from first-hand testimony from my parents and their older relatives and friends.
I'm not talking about your strawman PCs. I'm talking about the setting of the 1920s itself?
If we're talking Golden Age, then mostly the period from the 1930s to the early 1950s. Pulp is *not* Golden Age, but at the same time, I'd like some pulp elements in the setting all the same. The historic of what came before, and older Pulp Heroes/Villains who are witness to this new age of Full on Costumed Superheroes over Mystery Men and Adventurers.
The DC Graphic novel "The Golden Age" is one of my favorites, takes place in the 1950s and is about the tail end of the era, I think it's a great inspiration for how most Golden Ages have been predicted to end... on a downer note with Government interference until the Silver age brings the wonder back..
But in-between that... Any Golden Age is going to have lots of Nazi fighting too...
Actual Nazis... not what modern Progressives *think* Nazis are.
Lots of themes of Hope during the early Golden Age of course... Prohibition was just coming to an end, and America was getting out of the Depression... Superheroes represent hope again...
In a lot of ways when I think about it, Pulp had a much more global focus than the Golden Age, in a lot of ways, the Golden Age is about "Coming Home". The Superheroes aren't exploring the Inner Earth and Secret Jungle Temples or Ancient Chinese Monestaries like Pulp Heroes did (they can, but it wasn't what they regularly did) instead focusing on the homefront, and then going against Europe and Japan in WW2.
There's a lot of potential in Foreign Supervillains in WW2, not just the Nazis, but the Italians and the Japanese as well.
Throw in some return of old Gods stuff... Maybe someone claiming to be Hercules with the Italians Super Team.
And full on Supervillains who plan to take over the world outside of the WW2 powers, and leading their own Mafia/Organized crime gangs for the first time (and displacing the old Pulp Villains) would also be prominent.
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 24, 2023, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 01:49:00 PM
To me it's about standing in a soapbox to scream how virtuous they are and those old times were istophobic, ergo you should include those themes AND denounce them, or you shouldn't include them because people might become istophobes just by figthing the bad guys.
Speaking of "presentism", isn't judging the Golden Age Comics sexist and racist exactly that?
IMNSHO you should include whatever you think fits your world and players.
So.
I'm curious. Is it wrong to call the socially-rampant Racism and Sexism of the 20s wrong?
Because it was very real. I know because of reading about it and from first-hand testimony from my parents and their older relatives and friends.
I'm not talking about your strawman PCs. I'm talking about the setting of the 1920s itself?
The Golden Age of Supers doesn't take place in the 1920s, something you should know BEFORE inserting yourself into the conversation.
As for your strawman, well fuck it and fuck you too.
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 24, 2023, 04:03:22 PM
I'm curious. Is it wrong to call the socially-rampant Racism and Sexism of the 20s wrong?
Because it was very real. I know because of reading about it and from first-hand testimony from my parents and their older relatives and friends.
I'm not talking about your strawman PCs. I'm talking about the setting of the 1920s itself?
The 1920s is not the Golden Age, that's the era of Pulp.
The 1930s to the 1950s is the era of the Golden Age, and yes there would be some racism, but the whole, "War in Europe and Japan" thing kinda starts dominating everything, including what's going on with the Superhero community... and then the dropping of Atomic Bombs as well.
Quote from: Orphan81 on August 24, 2023, 04:36:38 PM
The 1930s to the 1950s is the era of the Golden Age, and yes there would be some racism, but the whole, "War in Europe and Japan" thing kinda starts dominating everything, including what's going on with the Superhero community... and then the dropping of Atomic Bombs as well.
The Golden Age of Comics is usually specifically phrased as 1938 (with the introduction of Superman) to 1956 (when the Silver Age started with the new Flash). Its heyday and focus is 1938 to the mid-1940s, though, with comics declining in popularity after that.
I think WWII and atomic bombs is largely independent of racism and sexism. There can be war comics with more racism and sexism, and war comics with less. I'd note that Captain Marvel's black valet Steamboat appeared during WWII from 1942 to 1945, for example.
"Waaaacism & Sexismism!" "If you don't make your heroes sexismist, wacist istaphobes you're a bad person!"
But also:
"Waaaacism & Sexismism!" "If you make ANY PC a sexismist, wacist istaphobe you're a bad person!"
Play as you want, it's your table, but please stop the moral posturing and trying to browbeat others into doing your bidding.
I guess having Tarzan in his first appearances speaking a broken English is also a sign of huwhite supremacy or something.
Because we all know you can totally make accents in comic books without making it stereotypical, but also making accents when you roleplay is waaaaacist, sexismist and istaphobic.
As for the subject of the thread (I`m done with those hijacking it for political reasons), you can totally go either way, in most comic books there wasn't a show of racismism, sexismism or istaphobia by the good guys, which is all we need to know. But if YOU want to make Roscharch and your GM allows it have at it.
Generally speaking in most Superhero games, regardless of the era... Prejudice and Racism is the aspect of Villains only.
Yes this means making the world more accepting in these eras than they really were... But it's a fucking Superhero game, that's how it's supposed to be.
Trying to stay on topic and not get sucked into politics.
In my campaign, using the inspirations I mentioned up-thread, I started the players at the 1939 international expo at Treasure Island (which was built for this expo). For whatever reason, the PCs were at the expo when German super-agents tried to steal the American super-robot "Steel Freedom" (which was itself copied from a British design, Ironclad... making it a double-entendre... steal freedom... get it?)
This let an international feel, like the original Star Trek or 1978-era X-Men, creep into the game, as it was an INTERNATIONAL expo.
Whoa
The computer game Freedom Force vs. the Third Reich, in which a Silver Age superhero team time-travels back to the 1940s to meet some Golden Age superheroes and team up with them against the Nazis, is a wonderful evocation of both of those ages of comic books.
Quote from: Brigman on August 26, 2023, 11:09:32 PM
In my campaign, using the inspirations I mentioned up-thread, I started the players at the 1939 international expo at Treasure Island (which was built for this expo). For whatever reason, the PCs were at the expo when German super-agents tried to steal the American super-robot "Steel Freedom" (which was itself copied from a British design, Ironclad... making it a double-entendre... steal freedom... get it?)
This let an international feel, like the original Star Trek or 1978-era X-Men, creep into the game, as it was an INTERNATIONAL expo.
Quote from: I on September 15, 2023, 05:31:01 PM
The computer game Freedom Force vs. the Third Reich, in which a Silver Age superhero team time-travels back to the 1940s to meet some Golden Age superheroes and team up with them against the Nazis, is a wonderful evocation of both of those ages of comic books.
One should be very clear about sources for a Golden Age game. A game that is emulating Star Trek or 1978-era X-Men is very different from one that is emulating actual Golden Age comic books. Likewise, a mashup of Silver Age and Golden Age sounds likely to be more like Silver Age time-traveling back rather than in actual 1940s style.
The purist in me often cringes at mixing retro material for being authentic.
I think it depends on what you're trying to capture really. I have a good collection of the Golden Age Green Lantern reprints, and while I love them, they're... pretty basic, really.
I mentioned up-thread "The Golden Age" series by Robinson and Smith, that was really fun and an influence on my campaign...
Quote from: Brigman on September 15, 2023, 10:09:14 PM
I think it depends on what you're trying to capture really. I have a good collection of the Golden Age Green Lantern reprints, and while I love them, they're... pretty basic, really.
I mentioned up-thread "The Golden Age" series by Robinson and Smith, that was really fun and an influence on my campaign...
Cool,man,tell me more about it
Regarding the racism and sexism of the time period, it may be constructive to simply tell your players "we're not going there." You don't bring it up, and they don't either.
For instance, when I wanted to run a pirate campaign, with a set of players who were racially mixed, I made a point not to bring up slavery. Because the Age of Piracy is also the Age of Slavery, but I knew that if I went there, it would take over the campaign. You can't take a bunch of modern people and say "Kingston is surrounded by slave plantations" and have them not want to do something about it. Especially if they're playing "heroic pirates." So I made sure not to send the party to any slave plantations, and not to bring up the presence of slaves in Port Royal, and we kept it on the high seas.
My pirate game also had a moratorium on rape.
Also, regarding the Golden Age versus the Silver Age, I think one of the defining points of the Golden Age is the lack of political subtext, apart from "Let's win World War 2."
The heavy use of political metaphor in X-Men is definitely a silver age thing. So is Dennis O'Neill's use of contemporary political/social issues in Green Arrow/Green Lantern.
Spider-man's emphasis on Peter Parker's real life struggles is also very much a silver age thing, it was groundbreaking at the time.
Golden Age storylines tended to be much simpler "hero/heroine fights crooks/nazis" type things. They also tended to be very short by modern standards, taking up maybe 8-10 pages, but sometimes only 3-4.
i would like to do,when the time comes,a hideouts & hoodlums 2nd edition rpg golden age supers campaign,featuring the public domain golden age super heroes.
Quote from: Ratguy on April 01, 2025, 12:58:22 PMi would like to do,when the time comes,a hideouts & hoodlums 2nd edition rpg golden age supers campaign,featuring the public domain golden age super heroes.
If you're making a golden-age era game, that would be a natural choice.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 02, 2025, 07:37:44 AMQuote from: Ratguy on April 01, 2025, 12:58:22 PMi would like to do,when the time comes,a hideouts & hoodlums 2nd edition rpg golden age supers campaign,featuring the public domain golden age super heroes.
If you're making a golden-age era game, that would be a natural choice.
Cool,how do I make a golden age era game,using the hideouts and hoodlums 2nd edition role-playing game?
I'm not actually familiar with the system. What I meant was that if you're making a Golden Age game, it would make sense to use the actual public domain supers of that period.