I've been thinking about elemental energy types. The standard D&D (Pathfinder) game has four elements: air, fire, water & earth. With four associated energy types: lightning, fire (duh), cold and... acid? Acid is not an energy type. This has always bugged me. So, I've been thinking of associating sonic with earth rather than acid. Earth type creatures would get sonic based attacks and defenses where they currently have acid damage. The game would still have acid based damage of course. But acid spells would all be Conjuration rather than Evocation.
   I realize that sonic is not an actual energy type. But neither is cold. But it seems like a much better fit than acid to my mind.
   Any thoughts?

Sonic energy is something I don't allow. I think its silly. Is it loud? Does it shake you? Can you cover your ears for half damage? Does it travel through walls or the ground? Does it have any properties of sound or is it just yellow magic called sonic?

In my opinion, Fire is the elemental fire attack, gust of wind and wind wall are elemental wind, water sphere and what not are elemental water. Cold attacks are also elemental water if the person is spraying ice. Elemental earth attacks are things like turning the ground to quicksand, transmute stone to mud, or imaging spells like ray of frost to be a rock thrown at your face.

Acid, lightning and sound are just other things that can hurt you.

Well, someone with a better grounding in physics can feel free to spank me, but acid is basically the work of hydrogen ions (H+) which is to say, protons. Chemical reactions certainly involve changes in energy levels. So I don't really have a problem seeing "acid" as an energy type.

'Sonic' energy IRL would I think technically be a form of kinetic energy and so sonic attacks could potentially be considered to be basically bludgeoning damage, and Damage Reduction could apply.

Why have Earth and Air damage at all? Can't they just hit things? They are made out of physical stone.

The flavored damage thing is really just for the Dragons anyway. Wizards don't really get their powers that way. A Warmage can prepare a Lightning Bolt and a Fireball and use whichever they want whenever they want.

So the dragons are:

Red Dragon (Fire): Breathes Fire.
White Dragon (Cold): Breathes Cold.
Black Dragon (Water): Breathes Acid
Blue Dragon (Earth): Breathes Electricity
Green Dragon (Air): Breathes Acid, but used to breathe Poison

So if you wanted to do some sort of elemental damage wheel for the elements, those are your elemental damage hookups.

-Frank

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;467772Well, someone with a better grounding in physics can feel free to spank me, but acid is basically the work of hydrogen ions (H+) which is to say, protons. Chemical reactions certainly involve changes in energy levels. So I don't really have a problem seeing "acid" as an energy type.

I'm no physicist, but this is spot on. Acid burns on living tissue are literally burns, as the high-energy reaction between acid and organic molecules releases plenty of heat.

Quote from: The Butcher;467877I'm no physicist, but this is spot on. Acid burns on living tissue are literally burns, as the high-energy reaction between acid and organic molecules releases plenty of heat.

Fire oxidizes, acid reduces. Sodium Hydroxide chemical burns are burns from a chemical standpoint, Hydrochloric Acid is the other thing.

-Frank

Quote from: FrankTrollman;467882Fire oxidizes, acid reduces. Sodium Hydroxide chemical burns are burns from a chemical standpoint, Hydrochloric Acid is the other thing.

-Frank

No shit, Einstein. :rolleyes: From a physical standpoint, they're both burns, though.

Quote from: The Butcher;467886No shit, Einstein. :rolleyes: From a physical standpoint, they're both burns, though.

ooh Doctor vs. Doctor battle!

Thanks guys, interesting.



I've always thought it would be good if Dragons tied into the Prismatic energy schema (the 7 colours as per Prismatic Wall/Prismatic Sphere), though I hadn't particularly thought this through.

Sonic and Earth? If you want to science it up a bit...
 
Sound is only one manifestation of a larger phenomona: pressure. We can detect a very limited range of pressure waves with our ears, but not onlyl in air. It's possible to hear stuff underwater, or even by pressing one's ear to the ground to listen for the sound of distant machinery, or horses, or centaurs, or whatever. Pressing one's ear to the ground works because the earth transmits sound BETTER than air. Sound transmitted through the ground is louder, faster and is detectable over longer distances.
 
The transmission of pressure through the earth is also what makes earthquakes happen. (And if Earthquakes aren't an ideal Earth element power I don't know what is!)
 
For more variety, dropping a bunch of rocks on someone causes pressure, as does getting hit by a rock. And, although this is a little out of my field of expertise, the reason rocks are so dang hard is because they are resistant to pressure. That pressure-resistance is also why rocks are awesome for compression style buildings (arches, pillars, aquaducts, bridges, cathedrals with flying buttresses and so on.)
 
What does this look like in-game?
I think you could very easily make an attractive array of spells from the pallet of hitting, crushing, squashing, being resistant to those types of damage and being heavy (that is, exuding lots of pressure on the ground, or being "heavy as a rock"). Earthquakes, avalanches, and the resulting avalanches are definitely within the ambit of earth-pressure magic, but beware -- magic on a geological scale* can really make a mess.
 
Technicaly, you could also add in shattering (like when an opera singer blasts a crystal glass) and vibrations in general although typicaly vibrating and sonic-shattering is given to the element of air.
 
Likewise the effects of dynamite and gunpowder are usualy within the ambit of fire. (After all, who ever heard a demolitions expert shout "earth in the hold!" Or the captain of an firing squad shout "ready! aim! earth!") But tropes aside, if you want to gather bullets and concusive explosions for under the banner of your earth-pressure energy magic -- science has your back.
 
*Geological. From the Latin Geo-freeking-logical: v.
1. To topple all the cool cities you thought up and squish all your NPCs.
2. To end a game suddenly, especialy with rocks falling.
 
Alas! My handcrafted world of magic and whimsy was utterly destroyed when Joe's character went geological with the Doomquaker of many dooms.

Quote from: Cranewings;467771Sonic energy is something I don't allow. I think its silly. Is it loud? Does it shake you? Can you cover your ears for half damage? Does it travel through walls or the ground? Does it have any properties of sound or is it just yellow magic called sonic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;467935*snip*
Alas! My handcrafted world of magic and whimsy was utterly destroyed when Joe's character went geological with the Doomquaker of many dooms.

:rotfl:

Quote from: TristramEvans;468216http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon

That shit all sucks, and it isn't what a sonic attack is in D&D. A horrible migraine gun would be an automatic status effect, not a 1d6 bolt of knock back force.

D&D sonics are more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVhuLi_gd5o&feature=related if you made it as cool as it could possibly be, but it wouldn't be because the kid asking for it would be crapping it up by the simple fact he is trying to power game around DR.

Quote from: Cranewings;468247That shit all sucks,

Well, it's no magic missile, I suppose.:hmm: