Wow!  Talk about taking woke idiocy to a new level...

As you may recall, a few months ago I posted regarding the outlawing of Seppuku in Edge Studio's 5e conversion of the Legend of the Five Rings RPG.  I finally had a chance to see the text and it's even worse than I thought.  Towards the beginning of the core rulebook, they have two full pages devoted to cultural sensitivity and respect for Asian cultures. 

Among other things they forbid speaking "Asian-sounding gibberish or using performative accents."  GMs are encouraged to have trigger warning conversations before games and be mindful not to offend anyone who might be Buddhist, Daoist, or Shinto.  The members of those faiths whom I know would chuckle heartily at such warnings. 

And there's this gem: "If you are not of a background or identity being marginalized/misrepresented at your table, do not argue with players of those backgrounds you have offended.  No one is sensitive for no reason.  Pain from racism is real and valid.  Drop your armor class and seek to understand before causing further damage from your words."  So you could be a white expert who corrects the ignorant American born Chinese or whatever, but you're automatically wrong?  What if the Asian is misrepresenting the culture?

Interestingly, after lecturing you on striving for historical accuracy and cultural respect, they state "We firmly believe that the glorification of suicide as a method of redemption is wrong and can be harmful to players."  So much for respecting culture and tradition.  I guess if it offends your superior woke Western values, it doesn't count.  So do the writers support abortion?  Can't that be harmful to players, future or current?  They also note "we ask that GMs do not include sexual assault or suicide (including seppuku/ritual suicide) in their games.  We never know what trauma our fellow players have been through, but the consequences of being insensitive and jovial about such topics can leave lasting wounds far after the conclusion of a game session."  First off, I would generally know these things about my players since I don't play with random strangers.  Second, who alive has direct experience with seppuku?  Third, who is jovial about these things?

They claim the book has undergone "extensive review" by Asian contributors.  So I checked the full list of contributors and saw two or three obviously Asian names.  None are recognized scholars or academics.  And hilariously in their list of inspirational books at the front, they reverse most of the Asian names, putting the given name before the surname.  So much for accuracy and sensitivity.

There's more but I think the point has been made.  What a freakin' joke.

Insane and kind of hilarious.

What happens if the American born Chinese player tells the European-American GM to commit seppuku?

Can't argue but can't comply. Does not compute!

I agree completely.  I miss the old AEG days of L5R.

Also, I lol'd at "Wokeugan" way too much.

That's just asking for making most possible offensive YT Actual Play of it.

So now we need a totally-not-L5R unwokefied retroclone?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 16, 2023, 03:56:39 PM
So now we need a totally-not-L5R unwokefied retroclone?

Nah, just do what I'm doing: running 4th edition L5R right now. Better setting, better system, better dice even*. It's the most complete edition of the game by far and runs pretty spiffy with just a few house rules. It's still readily available on DrivethruRPG under EDGE's banner, and they haven't even slapped one of those WotC-style "sensitivity" disclaimers on it. Guess they're not too good for my politically incorrect dollars, heh.

In the unlikely event anyone ever complains, I'll point out the following: Japan has never asked for permission to remix European culture in their many RPG video games, I don't need permission to remix theirs. Furthermore, Japan isn't some helpless baby culture in need of protection, they are a powerful nation who have committed their fair share of atrocities. Handling them with kid gloves is actually way more patronizingly racist than simply acknowledging the genre-defining reality of seppuku.

* In the case of the Fantasy Flight version EDGE inherited. Fuck proprietary dice.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 16, 2023, 10:06:58 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 16, 2023, 03:56:39 PM
So now we need a totally-not-L5R unwokefied retroclone?

Nah, just do what I'm doing: running 4th edition L5R right now. Better setting, better system, better dice even*. It's the most complete edition of the game by far and runs pretty spiffy with just a few house rules. It's still readily available on DrivethruRPG under EDGE's banner, and they haven't even slapped one of those WotC-style "sensitivity" disclaimers on it. Guess they're not too good for my politically incorrect dollars, heh.

In the unlikely event anyone ever complains, I'll point out the following: Japan has never asked for permission to remix European culture in their many RPG video games, I don't need permission to remix theirs. Furthermore, Japan isn't some helpless baby culture in need of protection, they are a powerful nation who have committed their fair share of atrocities. Handling them with kid gloves is actually way more racist than simply acknowledging the genre-defining reality of seppuku.

* In the case of the Fantasy Flight version EDGE inherited. Fuck proprietary dice.

Isn't EDGE the same publisher of wokeugan?

I've got a policy about not giving my hard earned pesos to woketards because they hate my guts.

"Wokeugan."   

Genius.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 16, 2023, 10:10:18 PM
Isn't EDGE the same publisher of wokeugan?

I've got a policy about not giving my hard earned pesos to woketards because they hate my guts.

I don't care enough to go that far on this occasion. Buying a 4th edition product is a "vote with your dollars" signal to the management that there's still a market for the real deal, not the watered down version.

Besides, L5R was dead in the water until Fantasy Flight and then EDGE stepped in. I might disagree with some of their corporate trend-chasing cowardice, but at least they have a chance of bringing Rokugan to the attention of new people. A fraction of those new people will then investigate the game's history and come to like real L5R better.

It's kind of like how D&D 5e helps some younger folk discover the OSR, or Dial of Destiny causes people to marathon the actually good Indiana Jones movies for the first time.

A SHAMEFUR DISHSPRAY OF WOKENESS!

I guess that the good old samurai practice of sticking your enemy's severed head on a spiked board (after washing its face and arranging its hair) and having tea with it is also banned.

Sounds very different from the last "Oriental Adventures" campaign I played in where all the NPC names were taken from a Chinese menu. The arch villain in the campaign, Moo Goo Gai Pan, was holding a Mortal Kombat style tournament. In fact, we had to start out playing 0th level characters, (soldiers of General Tsao) charged with capturing one of the more reluctant competitors. It was a lot of fun and pretty brilliant. The second someone tries to complain about it being offensive, just have they/them's character encounter the wise mentor Crab Rangoon. People pretend to care about shit right up to the point where it costs them as much as a Big Mac. So guaranteed the greasy fat fuckers will never say no to Crab Rangoon.

Quote from: Lunamancer on November 17, 2023, 03:24:39 PM
Sounds very different from the last "Oriental Adventures" campaign I played in where all the NPC names were taken from a Chinese menu. The arch villain in the campaign, Moo Goo Gai Pan, was holding a Mortal Kombat style tournament. In fact, we had to start out playing 0th level characters, (soldiers of General Tsao) charged with capturing one of the more reluctant competitors. It was a lot of fun and pretty brilliant. The second someone tries to complain about it being offensive, just have they/them's character encounter the wise mentor Crab Rangoon. People pretend to care about shit right up to the point where it costs them as much as a Big Mac. So guaranteed the greasy fat fuckers will never say no to Crab Rangoon.

Awesome.  FWIW I literally just wrote a biography of General Zuo.  It will be published early next year: https://www.usni.org/press/books/struggle-empire

And yes, the point is to freakin' have fun.  And who knows such games can serve as gateways to more serious study of other cultures, as they did for me.  But don't beat me over the head with virtue signaling and moralizing.

Quote from: Lunamancer on November 17, 2023, 03:24:39 PM
People pretend to care about shit right up to the point where it costs them as much as a Big Mac.

Exactly!

Sounds like a hilarious campaign done in the spirit of fun. If I were in China and some group of locals was running a goofy Canadian campaign, I'd be all over it.

This reminds me of the Avatar: The Last Airbender RPG. There was a whole section slapped in the book that read like a Reddit mod's take on the Avatar lore. Talking about how the Fire Nation was xenophobic and homophobic, and how the Air Nomads were super progressives that communally raised children and lived accepting lifestyles. It's so randomly political that it just breaks any immersion with the world contained within.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 16, 2023, 10:06:58 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 16, 2023, 03:56:39 PM
So now we need a totally-not-L5R unwokefied retroclone?

Nah, just do what I'm doing: running 4th edition L5R right now. Better setting, better system, better dice even*. It's the most complete edition of the game by far and runs pretty spiffy with just a few house rules. It's still readily available on DrivethruRPG under EDGE's banner, and they haven't even slapped one of those WotC-style "sensitivity" disclaimers on it. Guess they're not too good for my politically incorrect dollars, heh.

The OP mostly talks about disclaimers and commentary in the book. What are the actual changes in setting and system content? (NOTE: Personally, I've only briefly done a one-shot in Rokugan, and have never been interested in it as a setting, so this is just idle curiosity on my part.)