Chain of command in military games.

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 05:46:03 AM

If you run military games how do you run chain of command among your players. Some players balk at being given orders by a fellow player, so how would you handle that?
I suppose you could have the players all of equal rank and have an NPC giving the orders, but is there another way of doing chain of command within the player characters?

flyingmice · October 23, 2007, 08:31:57 AM

Quote from: AnthrobotIf you run military games how do you run chain of command among your players. Some players balk at being given orders by a fellow player, so how would you handle that?
I suppose you could have the players all of equal rank and have an NPC giving the orders, but is there another way of doing chain of command within the player characters?

In the "In Harm's Way" series, the default is to have the PCs start off at the same rank, and they earn Notice by performing their missions very well. Eventually, one PC earns enough notice to be promoted and posted elsewhere, and new PCs are created around him. Alternatively, you just hand command over to the promoted PC. In any case, they earned it.

You could also auction off command with character points if you prefer.

-clash

JohnnyWannabe · October 23, 2007, 09:14:38 AM

If you are playing a military game and you all agreed to play a military game, then players should expect other players to give their characters orders. I've played and ran many games where PCs outranked other PCs and no one boohoo'ed - Twilight 2000, Terran Story, Recon, Pendragon, Warhammer and D&D, just to name a few.

RPGPundit · October 23, 2007, 12:09:16 PM

Eh, unless you're talking about idiots with an anti-authoritarian chip on their shoulder, most of the times the social hierarchy takes care of this itself. The guys that like to be the leader and make the decisions for the other Players will end up high-ranked, and the ones who don't care about that will not be. If that doesn't happen, the wanna-be leader guy will just "top from the bottom" and the doesn't-wannabe-leader guy will just let him (even though his character is a captain and the other guy is a seargent), because without that guy telling him what to choose he'd be fucking lost.

RPGPundit

JohnnyWannabe · October 23, 2007, 01:25:08 PM

Yeah, I've played in a number of games (most of them good ones) where players who are poor leaders had PCs that were "in command." It actually made for a better game. Their glaring incompetence made for an all round good time. Very amusing stuff.

Gunslinger · October 23, 2007, 04:32:46 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditThe guys that like to be the leader and make the decisions for the other Players will end up high-ranked, and the ones who don't care about that will not be.

Apparently you've never been in the military.

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 05:29:11 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceYou could also auction off command with character points if you prefer.

-clash

Thats a good point (if you'll forgive the pun).

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 05:39:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditEh, unless you're talking about idiots with an anti-authoritarian chip on their shoulder, most of the times the social hierarchy takes care of this itself. The guys that like to be the leader and make the decisions for the other Players will end up high-ranked, and the ones who don't care about that will not be. If that doesn't happen, the wanna-be leader guy will just "top from the bottom" and the doesn't-wannabe-leader guy will just let him (even though his character is a captain and the other guy is a seargent), because without that guy telling him what to choose he'd be fucking lost.

RPGPundit

Yes, I'm writing about "idiots with an antiauthoritarian chip" on their collective shoulders. A friend of mine wants to run Robotech. However his players are whining that militaristic games don't work well because the players don't like taking orders from other players. After much argument with them my friend asked my advice. I told him to run the game with all the players at the same level of rank and have an NPC give the orders. If these players don't like it then, I told him to come to my group and we'd play the game. I wondered if there were other ways of handling the situation with his whining players?

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 05:42:21 PM

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeIf you are playing a military game and you all agreed to play a military game, then players should expect other players to give their characters orders. I've played and ran many games where PCs outranked other PCs and no one boohoo'ed - Twilight 2000, Terran Story, Recon, Pendragon, Warhammer and D&D, just to name a few.

Unfortunately this is not the case with these players. I'm beginning to think that they just don't fancy playing Robotech and are being uppity about militaty games as an excuse!

jhkim · October 23, 2007, 06:45:14 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceYou could also auction off command with character points if you prefer.

A potential problem with this is that it guarantees that the least competent character (i.e. the one with the fewest point in presumably useful other stuff) is the one in command. That's perhaps an accurate assessment of some people's military experience (and a trope of some fiction), but not one that everone wants.

I've generally just had a given character in command. The key to working is that commander is willing to delegate and trust his top people. We all agreed to this in principle in the games, and things worked fine.

flyingmice · October 23, 2007, 07:43:21 PM

Quote from: jhkimA potential problem with this is that it guarantees that the least competent character (i.e. the one with the fewest point in presumably useful other stuff) is the one in command. That's perhaps an accurate assessment of some people's military experience (and a trope of some fiction), but not one that everone wants.

I've generally just had a given character in command. The key to working is that commander is willing to delegate and trust his top people. We all agreed to this in principle in the games, and things worked fine.

From the OP, I judged that the normal ways - like you and others described - would not work, so I suggested less standard ways. It turns out I was correct.

-clash

RPGPundit · October 23, 2007, 10:32:40 PM

Quote from: GunslingerApparently you've never been in the military.

Fortunately in RPGs, unlike in the military, you generate the character that fits the level of the gaming group social hierarchy you want to fit into, generally speaking.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · October 23, 2007, 10:34:59 PM

Quote from: AnthrobotYes, I'm writing about "idiots with an antiauthoritarian chip" on their collective shoulders. A friend of mine wants to run Robotech. However his players are whining that militaristic games don't work well because the players don't like taking orders from other players. After much argument with them my friend asked my advice. I told him to run the game with all the players at the same level of rank and have an NPC give the orders. If these players don't like it then, I told him to come to my group and we'd play the game. I wondered if there were other ways of handling the situation with his whining players?

Well that is a pretty complicated situation; the default easy answer would be "don't play a military game". Or you could always have them be some kind of "special agents" in the RDF/REF/SC/whatever that operate outside of the regular chain of command, maybe with all of them having a particular equivalent rank (lieutenant or whatever) so certain NPCs can give them orders, but they don't regularly have to give or take orders from each other.

RPGPundit

Anthrobot · October 24, 2007, 04:57:30 AM

Quote from: RPGPunditOr you could always have them be some kind of "special agents" in the RDF/REF/SC/whatever that operate outside of the regular chain of command, maybe with all of them having a particular equivalent rank (lieutenant or whatever) so certain NPCs can give them orders, but they don't regularly have to give or take orders from each other.

RPGPundit

Cheers. I'll put this by my mate and we'll see if he can get his whining players conscripted!

Spike · October 25, 2007, 08:12:29 PM

Quote from: GunslingerApparently you've never been in the military.

Actually: in my expirence, those that like to lead tend and give orders, regardless of ability to actually... you know... lead, tend to be more ambitious and more willing to work the promotion system to get that rank (regardless of military, paramilitary, or ordinary corporate management) then those without the desire to give orders and lead people, leading to faster promotions.

We call that.... ambition. Perhaps you have heard of this thing, yes?