Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 30, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
The irony is that female space marines would probably look identical to male space marines. A bunch of those armored minis could be female and you would never know by looking at them.


https://www.deviantart.com/sigvardsteel/art/Female-Space-Marine-338739042

I wouldn't take 4Chan fanfic as any kind of serious essay on female Space Marines.


Female Space Marines would have huge boobs and curvy hips and their power armor would be form fitting and sexy because exaggerated appearance sells, and activists whining about representation and "practical armor"* don't buy hundreds of dollars of GW product.


*Fuckin Space Marines are already ludicrous with brightly colored armor and chainswords and don't bother wearing a helmet if it looks cool.

Oh right. What was I thinking? This is the same setting that has chainswords.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 30, 2020, 08:08:52 PM
Oh right. What was I thinking? This is the same setting that has chainswords.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 30, 2020, 09:18:01 AM

It's why I laughed at the handful of people bitching about the Sisters of Battle getting front-row honors in the 9E trailer, because long-time 40k players know the Sisters have been getting the short end of the stick for MANY editions. Most of us don't mind in the slightest that GW has brought the bolter bitches back into the fray, and we welcome the challenge.

When I was picking my faction for starting with the 9th edition release, I picked Sisters partly because GW is increasing support for them.

Theres been sporatic bitching about Warhammer Skaven by feminist too. Really. There isnt anything these sociopaths wont take offense at.

Quote from: Omega on October 01, 2020, 08:32:33 AM
Theres been sporatic bitching about Warhammer Skaven by feminist too. Really. There isnt anything these sociopaths wont take offense at.

The Skaven have a ridiculously patriarchal society where all females are forcibly transformed into giant bloated lobotomized brood mares.

Why is this the case? Chaos magic doesn't need you to be born female to turn you into a brood mare.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 02:29:04 PMWhy is this the case?

Because Skaven are evil. Not 100% this was a serious question or just trolling. 

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 02:29:04 PMWhy is this the case?

Wrong question: Why is it a point of contention? Why is everybody else in the universe on the backfoot to your personal demands for how all fiction must be represented? When did you get into the position to start making demands? And what makes you qualified to do so?

The answer is people with too much time on their hands and are so deeply fragile that they cannot handle even theoretical elements they consider problematic.

You can tell these people never read the Infernals' backstory in Exalted 2E.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 01, 2020, 04:12:30 PM
You can tell these people never read the Infernals' backstory in Exalted 2E.

Pretty much everybody agreed that shit was disgusting and unnecessary.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 01, 2020, 02:53:16 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 02:29:04 PMWhy is this the case?

Because Skaven are evil. Not 100% this was a serious question or just trolling. 

I'm really sick of "the patriarchy" being used as generic villains. That doesn't change whether the designers are SJWs or not. I'm sick and tired of seeing the male sex villainized as toxically masculine psychopaths obsessed with oppressing the female sex and competing over who has the biggest penis.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 01, 2020, 03:58:02 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 02:29:04 PMWhy is this the case?

Wrong question: Why is it a point of contention? Why is everybody else in the universe on the backfoot to your personal demands for how all fiction must be represented? When did you get into the position to start making demands? And what makes you qualified to do so?

The answer is people with too much time on their hands and are so deeply fragile that they cannot handle even theoretical elements they consider problematic.

I don't play Warhammer so I don't actually care.

Here's a thought experiment. What if the roles were reversed? What if skaven were feminazis who used males as only lobotomized brood studs? Do you think that would alter their appeal among male players?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 04:39:36 PM]

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 01, 2020, 03:58:02 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 02:29:04 PMWhy is this the case?

Wrong question: Why is it a point of contention? Why is everybody else in the universe on the backfoot to your personal demands for how all fiction must be represented? When did you get into the position to start making demands? And what makes you qualified to do so?

The answer is people with too much time on their hands and are so deeply fragile that they cannot handle even theoretical elements they consider problematic.

I don't play Warhammer so I don't actually care.

Here's a thought experiment. What if the roles were reversed? What if skaven were feminazis who used males as only lobotomized brood studs? Do you think that would alter their appeal among male players?

They already have a race that's kinda like that in D&D. They're called Drow. They're one of the most popular races in the game.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 04:39:36 PMHere's a thought experiment. What if the roles were reversed? What if skaven were feminazis who used males as only lobotomized brood studs? Do you think that would alter their appeal among male players?

Yes. Again Drow Exist: No complaints from male players for......decades?

I also agree that 'Male oppressor' races are boring, but Skaven are not really that. The nature of their females matters very little to their identity as largely hateful, frightful little nothings that want to eat everything else because they hate everybody else slightly less then they hate each other. The nature of their women comes not from any patriarchy but more akin to 'magic' versions of cloning pods. Gender doesn't really exist to them.

Unlike say classic 'Enslaver' orcs or something that kidnap elven ladies to ravage or whatever, Skaven don't really have a space in their mind for sexual pleasure whatsoever. They are more like biological machines focused on consuming all rather than living beings.

They are furry versions of this:

What I mean is, why even mention that all the females are reduced to slavering broodmares? Why not have skaven armies consist of an equal mix of males and females because they lack sexual dimorphism? Unlike the drow, this wouldn't affect their general depiction because they aren't otherwise characterized as rabidly patriarchal.

It feels like the broodmare thing is just a lazy excuse for why there aren't any female skaven models. I suspect the real reason there aren't any female skaven models is because the artists would try to make them "sexy" with boobs covered by chainmail underwear or something, then realized how stupid that would have looked and gave up.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 01, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
I also agree that 'Male oppressor' races are boring, but Skaven are not really that. The nature of their females matters very little to their identity as largely hateful, frightful little nothings that want to eat everything else because they hate everybody else slightly less then they hate each other. The nature of their women comes not from any patriarchy but more akin to 'magic' versions of cloning pods. Gender doesn't really exist to them.

Gender does exist to them, otherwise they wouldn't only force females to be breeders. They'd use chaos magic to mutate anyone into a breeder.

They are male oppressors. It's stated that the females are only accessible to high-ranking skaven, like harems. The Gotrek & Felix novels feature a moment where a lower-ranking skaven is rewarded by being allowed to mate with a female.

This patriarchy is incongruous precisely because it's irrelevant the overwhelming majority of the time.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 01, 2020, 06:16:58 PMUnlike say classic 'Enslaver' orcs or something that kidnap elven ladies to ravage or whatever, Skaven don't really have a space in their mind for sexual pleasure whatsoever. They are more like biological machines focused on consuming all rather than living beings.

You mean tyranids? The skaven behave nothing like tyranids. They have individual egos, a religion, an oppressed sex class, ridiculous amounts of backstabbing... In fact, the highest-ranking tyranids like dominatrices and norn-queens are explicitly gendered as female to the point that some magos biologis research notes speculate the former is the "female" counterpart of the "male" hive tyrant.

I'm sick and tired of seeing single sex/gender races like skaven and asari. In the overwhelming majority of cases, they don't serve any purpose besides either fetish fuel or sheer laziness. It's a pointless and unnecessary erasure of an entire sex class. One should be allowed to criticize this trope without being dismissed as a loony SJW.

Why can't the skaven use chaos magic to cause dudes to grow uteruses? Why can't there be female representation among skaven characters, like that one female grey seer from 1st edition or the four-breasted cheerleaders in Blood Bowl? Why do the tyranids get better female representation than skaven do and nobody complains about that? Is "skaven cannot have female representation because we refuse to cede any ground to SJWs" really a molehill worth dying on when GW retcons their own shit all the time for the most frivolous reasons?

This whole argument makes about as much sense as arguing that there are no such thing as female imperial guard or genestealer hybrids because there aren't any models for them, even though the lore states that many of them are female. The only reason nobody is arguing that there cannot be any female imperial guard or genestealer hybrids is because their codices never included single paragraphs saying all females were reduced to brood mares like the skaven do.

But, again, I'm not actually invested in this so I don't care if GW doesn't make any changes. I don't expect them too.

If there were skaven players who wanted female representation, although I never heard of any, then why do you think they're playing the game wrong?

The reason why there is resistance is simple and cynical: 1) the typical nerdy aversity to change of any kind and 2) refusal to cede any ground whatsoever to perceived SJW interests.

If GW retconned the skaven so that they always had female representation rather than being male oppressors, then would you actually be upset about it? I highly doubt you would care one bit unless GW announced a press release where they made a big deal virtue signaling about it.

Again, I don't care because I don't like skaven. I'm a cat person.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 01, 2020, 08:41:39 PM
What I mean is, why even mention that all the females are reduced to slavering broodmares?

....Why not? Again your talking like somebody in a position to make demands. I feel your arguing in bad faith.

That's an awful lot of words for someone that "doesn't care."