I know that it has lizard people and rock people. I know that there's some magical radiation made by dwarves that made every build dungeons. I know somehow circles are involved instead of levels. I know that FASA published it a decade and a half ago. Otherwise, the thing is a complete mystery to me.

How does it differ from a fantasy heartbreaker (or is it one)? What makes it an interesting setting? How differently from say, D&D does it feel in play?

How different from which "D&D"? There are like seven of them.

Anyway the bulk of my personal experiance with D&D is AD&D 1e. It felt very different. It had talents, which are quite a bit like feats actually. At the time D&D didn't have any of that. It had a mad funky dice system that brought all the crazy polyhedrons into play- and was just plain fun to use. Combat was a blast. It had more races than 1e. It had well thought out reasons for the existance of dungeons. Everyone in my group loved it. I'm looking at my 1st edition ED hardcover right now- We used the fuck out of it; today, it is held together by packing tape across the spine.

Definitely not a fantasy heartbreaker.  It's post-Cthulhu-pocalypse D&D.  A well written setting meshed to a well designed, if intimidating, system.

The setting is weird though.  I like how it's presented in the core book and in a small handful of the supplements.  But somewhere along the line I felt that it really "lost the plot" as it devolved into a struggle of plucky Rebels vs. evil Empire, rather than concentrate on the more horrific elements and smaller scale survival in a ravaged land.  I suppose I might've been in the minority.

Its system is somewhat complex, mechanically.  Lots of numbers and those numbers must first be converted to a handful of dice before you can attempt to accomplish anything. The conversion was simple, but most people had to refer to this intimidatingly large chart showing what "step" value = what dice to roll.  Each die can also "explode", so consistent probabilities weren't exactly easy to determine.  It was a roll over mechanic, btw.

It is a class and level based system, but levels don't work like D&D levels. PCs advance skills and talents individually, during the course of play.  When a PC has a certain number of Talents and Skills at a certain rank, then the PC is promoted to the next circle of their discipline (compare to D&D where you get experience points but don't see any improvement until you "level up").  This is still my favourite class/level system.

The magic system is excellent; crunchy and yet somewhat flexible.  However the (1e) book makes the system seem far more complex than it actually is.    There's an entire chapter dedicated to magical theory that reads like the TimeCube web site.  It hurts just thinking about it.  I refused to play anything but warrior types for a long time simply because I didn't realize you could just ignore that chapter and learn the game mechanics separately.  I'm not sure if that same amount of "fun" is to be had in the new editions of the game.

I really used to love this game, but there are other things in the current generation that are superior so I'm unlikely to dust it off and give it a whirl.  IMHO, it was the best example of D&D Done Right, until 3.0 came along.

ED was one version revision away from being fantastic.  Not a heartbreaker though by any means.  It was essentially (not mechanically) the fantasy version of Shadowrun.   If Fasa hadn't tanked it'd still be going.  

I still maintain that the Book of Horrors is still one of the finest Monster Manuals from any system.

Which version of the game would people suggest seeking out for someone looking to get into it?

I've only played the first edition- which is great, and as far as I know has the best art of the three versions. You can get a used copy of the hardcover off amazon for under 20$ (US). I would also pick up the companion. In my opinion the other books are best left alone, except for "Creature's of Barsaive" which is  an okay monster book, just a little heavy on fluff and a bit light on the actual number of monsters (there are like 50 total). The regional and racial suppliments did nothing for me. I have never looked at the "Book of Horrors" though, and it may well be as excellent as Kryyst says.

Also you need a GM screen for this game. The combat and stuff comes pretty easy after a few sessions, but the stuff on the gm screen is really necessary. I don't know if you can find one of those these days though.

I originally got away from the game because, although I liked it a lot, I felt that the setting was too pervasive. As I've said before, you could easily make your own setting, but the book is all Barsaive, Barsaive, Barsaive on like every page, which gets a bit old, really. I ended my Three year ED campaign by dropping a moon onto Barsaive. Felt good.

Quote from: WarthurWhich version of the game would people suggest seeking out for someone looking to get into it?

I suggest the Classic edition by RedBrick. Trust me, the two core books are enough to keep you gaming forever. They also fixed what needed to be fixed: No more Step calculation in mid-combat!

EDIT: Don't forget to check the official website. You'll find good downloads in there.

Quote from: JongWKI suggest the Classic edition by RedBrick. Trust me, the two core books are enough to keep you gaming forever. They also fixed what needed to be fixed: No more Step calculation in mid-combat!

EDIT: Don't forget to check the official website. You'll find good downloads in there.

Wow, those look really nice but they are kind of expensive.

Quote from: AosWow, those look really nice but they are kind of expensive.

They are 524 pages each. You can also get them as softcovers for $10 less. If you want them even cheaper, DriveThruRPG.com has the PDF.

Well, IIRC, there are several games that combine somre or all of the concepts D&D 4E is going with. So, I don't think that Earthdawn is the only influence.

Quote from: JongWKThey are 524 pages each. You can also get them as softcovers for $10 less. If you want them even cheaper, DriveThruRPG.com has the PDF.

Oh, I'm not disputing their value. Like I said, they look really nice. I just can't afford a $100.00 layout- or even a 60$ layout for any game right now, much less on one I already own.

Quote from: McrowWell, IIRC, there are several games that combine somre or all of the concepts D&D 4E is going with. So, I don't think that Earthdawn is the only influence.

This is he ED:WTF? thread, you want the other one.

Earthdawn Classic actually sounds like a very good revision.  I should've payed attention back when it was released.  I'm now re-intrigued about the game.

Does anyone here have printed copies from Lulu?  I've never bought Lulu products and I'm curious about their quality.  I have a lot of fear about the biding on a 524 page book that costs $50.

Quote from: architect.zeroEarthdawn Classic actually sounds like a very good revision.  I should've payed attention back when it was released.  I'm now re-intrigued about the game.

Does anyone here have printed copies from Lulu?  I've never bought Lulu products and I'm curious about their quality.  I have a lot of fear about the biding on a 524 page book that costs $50.

I have the Redbrick editions of the Players and GMs books. They're nice, solid, sturdy books. I haven't done more than read them and put them back on the shelf, but no signs of weak bindings.

Now, the content is another matter. This was my introduction to the Earthdawn system, after reading lots of stuff on the net about it being D&D done right, rules-medium game, really no harder than D&D, etc. Rules-wise, it's way more complex than its peer 2E D&D. The core mechanics aren't so bad, and I don't find the unique value-generation system difficult at all. It's all the sub-systems grafted onto the core that take it into the realm of rules-heavy. Your players are going to have to read a couple hundred pages to run their PCs.

Then there's the setting material. I bought the Nations of Barsaive book along with the core books, and it's hundreds of pages of background and political fluff. None of the content is written at the level of a boots-on-the-ground encounter. And most of the background and setting detail is political - which is weird considering how geared the PCs are to combat and outdoor survival. All you hear about is how cool Kaers are as dungeons, and yet they don't have a single one in a 300 page setting book. Instead, you get 70 pages on the political wranglings of lizard-man merchant houses.

So after dropping over $150 on Earthdawn books, I have a system that I'd have to dramatically revise and pare down in order to teach my players, and impractical setting material that I cannot use in actual play. Too much work for me.

QuoteDoes anyone here have printed copies from Lulu?  I've never bought Lulu products and I'm curious about their quality.  I have a lot of fear about the biding on a 524 page book that costs $50.

The binding is excellent. I've had the two core books for about six months, and they still look like new. The paper used for the hardcovers is slighty thinner than the one used for the softcovers, but it's still of good quality and the book doesn't look so thick as I feared.