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Magic in 5e - what I like thus far... (reserved to add things we don't like later)

Started by tenbones, July 14, 2014, 03:47:02 PM

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Omega

#30
July 16, 2014, 04:15:40 PM
Quote from: tenbones;769651Understood.

But I think this is pretty easily fixable. So not a "real" problem to me.

Certainly. Its just right out the ahem...gate, the spell is abuseable.

As a DM I can think of a few counters.

1: Clerics, Paladins and Druids are going to be pretty much immune to this spell as their patron deity isnt likely to allow the spell to nab one of theirs.

2: Spell doesnt work on people with generic names. Trying to gate John Smith is going to fail.

3: You have to actually be able to pronounce the name. Lots of luck with those elven, gnoll and kua-toa name. "I summon -gargling sound- to me!"

4: Every time you use the spell it attracts some really powerful beings attention. EVERY time.

5: Magic dead zones. Gate cant open if theres no juice at the target location to draw from.

etc.

Will

#31
July 16, 2014, 04:17:33 PM Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 04:20:16 PM by Will
Quote from: tenbones;769651Understood.

But I think this is pretty easily fixable. So not a "real" problem to me.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Oberoni_Fallacy

I mean, I'd take 'it's a mistake, but one I can overlook,' but bad design is bad design. ;)
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CitrusMagic

#32
July 17, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: Omega;769634Its still abusable in various ways and at face value totally skews any setting where its allowed as worded.

Wait till your enemy is asleep.
Have a fellow mage ready to nail them with holds, etc.
Get them to a plane that is hostile. Even a moments exposure to the plane of fire unprotected is likely going to be like facing a fireball.
 


 Do you know whats also like facing a fireball? The spell Fireball and its only 3rd level. Does that mean Fireball is broken?
I mean seriously Gate is a ninth level spell. A spellcaster that can cast 9th level spells can also resurrect the dead, stop time, level cities, fly, kill people with a mere word, create matter etc etc. Im pretty sure they are skewing the campaign world already.

Marleycat

#33
July 17, 2014, 01:04:06 AM Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 01:12:34 AM by Marleycat
Quote from: Omega;769683Certainly. Its just right out the ahem...gate, the spell is abuseable.

As a DM I can think of a few counters.

1: Clerics, Paladins and Druids are going to be pretty much immune to this spell as their patron deity isnt likely to allow the spell to nab one of theirs.

2: Spell doesnt work on people with generic names. Trying to gate John Smith is going to fail.

3: You have to actually be able to pronounce the name. Lots of luck with those elven, gnoll and kua-toa name. "I summon -gargling sound- to me!"

4: Every time you use the spell it attracts some really powerful beings attention. EVERY time.

5: Magic dead zones. Gate cant open if theres no juice at the target location to draw from.

etc.

Interesting that it isn't typical wizard spell correct? I would assume it's available and works far better for a Conjurer yes? Protip in 5e no wizard is a generalist. And well evil aligned clerics anyone?

We are discussing a 9th level spell.....only 1 slot so you bet it's their go to move.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

jibbajibba

#34
July 17, 2014, 01:26:56 AM
Quote from: Omega;769634Its still abusable in various ways and at face value totally skews any setting where its allowed as worded.

Wait till your enemy is asleep.
Have a fellow mage ready to nail them with holds, etc.
Get them to a plane that is hostile. Even a moments exposure to the plane of fire unprotected is likely going to be like facing a fireball.

How do you defend against being yanked away at any moment?

A personal problem I see with the spell is... How do you differentiate between Joe the fighter and Joe the mage who are on the same plane and dont have a last name, which is common in some settings.

The entry needs better wording

I'll stick with the AD&D Gate description. Opens portal to a powerful being - Gets beings attention - Being then has the choice to step through based on the casters alignment, companions, situation, etc. And can just say. "NO." or send a minion through.

to say Gate is broken is like saying that in traveller I can go to a tech Level 15 world by a personal cloaking device and a PGMP12 plasma weapon then I can sneak up on someone and shoot them in the back of the head from 4 feet away.
technology/magic is abusable. Vastly powerful technology/magic is vastly abusable thems the breaks
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Omega

#35
July 17, 2014, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;769918Interesting that it isn't typical wizard spell correct? I would assume it's available and works far better for a Conjurer yes? Protip in 5e no wizard is a generalist. And well evil aligned clerics anyone?

We are discussing a 9th level spell.....only 1 slot so you bet it's their go to move.

The twist here is that its now a little easier to get to the level you could cast it.

Of course you have to actually find the spell somewhere and copy it half the time. Or all the time if the DM isnt allowing free spells on level up.

Opaopajr

#36
July 17, 2014, 06:15:48 PM
Quote from: Omega;770071The twist here is that its now a little easier to get to the level you could cast it.

Of course you have to actually find the spell somewhere and copy it half the time. Or all the time if the DM isnt allowing free spells on level up.

First, RAW Wizards get 2 free spells of their choosing, spell level up to slots they have, upon leveling.

Second, it is on the Basic Cleric spell list. It's available.

However, the Gate spell says the creature may do as it pleases upon arrival, including leave -- as in may go back through your Gate back to its home. You would have to cast it in front of a portcullis, 1" before a wall, or similar, as Gate brings you in and then places you in the nearest unoccupied space.

Like I said, I'm giving it a fair shake RAW before I mercilessly bust out my metaphorical Sharpie on it.
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