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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Maese Mateo on April 07, 2014, 02:25:11 PM

Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Maese Mateo on April 07, 2014, 02:25:11 PM
A friend just sent me this (http://existentialcomics.com/comic/23), it's hilarious.:p
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 07, 2014, 03:34:22 PM
Good stuff!

Monster Manuel indeed.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on April 07, 2014, 10:22:43 PM
Thanks. That made me laugh out loud! :D

And I actually felt sorry for Kant...
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Doughdee222 on April 07, 2014, 10:45:12 PM
I had a buddy who went to a game convention and played in an AD&D event. The party is sent on a quest and arrives at the cave entrance. Instead of entering the cave he started a philosophical debate about the ethics and reasons behind what they were attempting to do. The other players went along with this. They spent the entire four hours or so just debating outside of the cave. They never did go in. The DM was amazed by this, or so I was told.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 08, 2014, 04:02:56 AM
"RPG.net, this is relevant to your interests."

JG
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: The Butcher on April 08, 2014, 07:26:50 AM
Pundit's gonna love this.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RunningLaser on April 08, 2014, 09:33:10 AM
Quote from: Doughdee222;741517I had a buddy who went to a game convention and played in an AD&D event. The party is sent on a quest and arrives at the cave entrance. Instead of entering the cave he started a philosophical debate about the ethics and reasons behind what they were attempting to do. The other players went along with this. They spent the entire four hours or so just debating outside of the cave. They never did go in. The DM was amazed by this, or so I was told.

This leaves me cold.  I would have politely excused myself and left for greener pastures if that went on for more than 30 minutes.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Ravenswing on April 08, 2014, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: Doughdee222;741517I had a buddy who went to a game convention and played in an AD&D event. The party is sent on a quest and arrives at the cave entrance. Instead of entering the cave he started a philosophical debate about the ethics and reasons behind what they were attempting to do. The other players went along with this. They spent the entire four hours or so just debating outside of the cave. They never did go in. The DM was amazed by this, or so I was told.
Hey, whatever works!  If they were all having fun, I figure I'd just lean back and let them debate ...

Quote from: RunningLaser;741565This leaves me cold.  I would have politely excused myself and left for greener pastures if that went on for more than 30 minutes.
Dungeon crawling leaves me cold; a career of it's just like playing the same pinball game, hour after hour, session after session.  It takes all kinds.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: BarefootGaijin on April 08, 2014, 11:37:07 PM
Now and again a session where you sit at a table in the inn discussion tactics is amusing. The GM throws something at you and you spend the night deciding what to do, and not doing anything very much.

All in character though. Quite nice.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 09, 2014, 12:31:27 AM
Foucault: "I don't know why you are so certain it is they who are evil."
Kant: "BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE MONSTER MANUAL!"

(It's knowledge a priori!)
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RPGPundit on April 10, 2014, 07:08:37 PM
I've seen it.  I think its pretty spot on at showing how all the crapulent civilization-betraying philosophers of the 20th century are essentially Swine.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on April 11, 2014, 12:06:58 AM
This comic reminds me why I avoided postmodernism in graduate school.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Marleycat on April 11, 2014, 01:05:25 AM
Quote from: RunningLaser;741565This leaves me cold.  I would have politely excused myself and left for greener pastures if that went on for more than 30 minutes.

I figure about 5 minutes. If I want philosophy rants I play MtAs, lurk at RPG.NET or remember college. If want to game, I PLAY DnD, MtAw or something similar.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Snowman0147 on April 11, 2014, 02:27:17 AM
I know it is trying to be humorous, but at the same time I am thinking those people at the table are assholes.  Seriously there is only one guy in that group that is acting like a character in a dungeon and dragon setting.  The rest are just wasting time.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 11, 2014, 02:50:38 AM
If most philosophy after Plato was only footnotes to what he wrote, most philosophy after Kant is either rebuttals or attempts to find loopholes to what he wrote. ;)

JG
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Bedrockbrendan on April 11, 2014, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;742059I figure about 5 minutes. If I want philosophy rants I play MtAs, lurk at RPG.NET or remember college. If want to game, I PLAY DnD, MtAw or something similar.

Absolutely agree, and I minored in philosophy. I don't have any desire to listen to that stuff at the game table.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RunningLaser on April 11, 2014, 10:05:34 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;742059If want to game, I PLAY DnD

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;742096I don't have any desire to listen to that stuff at the game table.

Bingo.  I'm there to play a game.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on April 11, 2014, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Brad;742053This comic reminds me why I avoided postmodernism in graduate school.

Kant is pretty much as far away from postmodernism as one can get.  He's the embodiment of 'modernism' ("Sapere aude!").  And he is, of course, the only one that actually knows how to play D&D.

The existentialists, whatever their faults, were not postmodernists either.  

It pains me to see the charlatan Derrida classified as a 'philosopher'.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Snowman0147 on April 11, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
Poor Kant...  He got killed by orcs because everyone else didn't know how to play the game.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Rincewind1 on April 11, 2014, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;742155Kant is pretty much as far away from postmodernism as one can get.  He's the embodiment of 'modernism' ("Sapere aude!").  And he is, of course, the only one that actually knows how to play D&D.

The existentialists, whatever their faults, were not postmodernists either.  

It pains me to see the charlatan Derrida classified as a 'philosopher'.

I'm more riled by Satre being Chaotic Good, anyone being a hardline fan of Stalin's is Neutral at best.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Snowman0147 on April 11, 2014, 01:25:18 PM
The more I read these comics the more I think it pokes fun at these people.  They seem to do the dumbest things ever.  I read one comic that two people found a genie and they wasted their three wishes on things that can't happen.  Now they are still stuck in the desert with no water.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on April 11, 2014, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;742155The existentialists, whatever their faults, were not postmodernists either.

What

To clarify, only an existentialist would eschew the postmodern label, which makes it all the more laughable as they're just Postmodern 2: Electric Boogaloo.

(and of course Kant isn't a postmodern...yeesh)
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on April 11, 2014, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: Brad;742178What

To clarify, only an existentialist would eschew the postmodern label, which makes it all the more laughable as they're just Postmodern 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Existentialism (Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky, Sartre, Camus, etc.) predates Postmodernism (Baudrillard, Lyotard, Derrida, Foucault [arguably], etc.), and is distinct from it.

While existentialism (and phenomenology and pragmatism and other things) influenced postmodernism, they are not the same thing.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 12, 2014, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;742034I've seen it.  I think its pretty spot on at showing how all the crapulent civilization-betraying philosophers of the 20th century are essentially Swine.

More like the other way around, right?

JG
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RPGPundit on April 13, 2014, 04:01:59 AM
Quote from: James Gillen;742247More like the other way around, right?

JG

All Swine are crapulent civilization-betraying philosophers?
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 14, 2014, 12:04:03 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;742351All Swine are crapulent civilization-betraying philosophers?

More like "the Swine" are to gaming what deconstructionism is to philosophy.

JG
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Chivalric on April 14, 2014, 09:34:18 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;742034I've seen it.  I think its pretty spot on at showing how all the crapulent civilization-betraying philosophers of the 20th century are essentially Swine.

Don't worry Pundit.  Neuroscience will do to philosophy what chemistry did to alchemy.  The pragmatists and logical positivists will win out in the end.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on April 14, 2014, 01:20:51 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;742182Existentialism (Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky, Sartre, Camus, etc.) predates Postmodernism (Baudrillard, Lyotard, Derrida, Foucault [arguably], etc.), and is distinct from it.

While existentialism (and phenomenology and pragmatism and other things) influenced postmodernism, they are not the same thing.

Sure.

Only if you're a postmodern.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Shipyard Locked on April 14, 2014, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: NathanIW;742533Neuroscience will do to philosophy what chemistry did to alchemy.  

Doesn't neuroscience (specifically the depressing brutality of its truths) have the potential to be more destructive to the course of civilization that philosophy though?
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Chivalric on April 15, 2014, 02:30:36 AM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;742581Doesn't neuroscience (specifically the depressing brutality of its truths) have the potential to be more destructive to the course of civilization that philosophy though?

Yes.  Just like chemistry can be far, far more destructive to the course of civilization than alchemy.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Exploderwizard on April 15, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
This comic doesn't tell us who's in charge of the sheep dip. It's rubbish Bruce.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Bill on April 15, 2014, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: James Gillen;741726Foucault: "I don't know why you are so certain it is they who are evil."
Kant: "BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE MONSTER MANUAL!"

(It's knowledge a priori!)

Roleplayer vs Rules lawyer....
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on April 16, 2014, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: Brad;742579Sure.

Only if you're a postmodern.

Hrm... :pundit:

I now feel the need to clarify two things:

1. I am not, in any shape or form, a 'postmodernist'.  I am thoroughly 'modern'.  My philosophical heroes include Hobbes, Hume, Rousseau, Voltaire, and Kant.  (Regarding the existentialists, I find Nietzsche and Camus insightful, but don't hang out in their club house most days.)

2. You are ... somewhat clueless about the history of philosophy.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Chivalric on April 16, 2014, 06:05:26 AM
I like that your user name is Akrasia and then you responded to Brad's trolling :D
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 17, 2014, 05:35:53 AM
The DM didn't even let Kant roll the dice. He might have got lucky and won! That De Beauvior is a DM fiat bitch.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Dan Vince on April 17, 2014, 08:39:12 AM
Quote from: James Gillen;741726Foucault: "I don't know why you are so certain it is they who are evil."
Kant: "BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE MONSTER MANUAL!"

(It's knowledge a priori!)

I have to disagree here.
The DM, who decides the alignment of NPCs, is not bound by the Monster Manual. Ergo there's no reason to assume monsters are exactly as described in the Monster Manual.
Also Kant is metagaming.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on April 18, 2014, 12:53:17 AM
Quote from: Dan Vincze;743162I have to disagree here.
The DM, who decides the alignment of NPCs, is not bound by the Monster Manual. Ergo there's no reason to assume monsters are exactly as described in the Monster Manual.
Also Kant is metagaming.

knowledge a priori = metagaming. ;)

JG
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on April 18, 2014, 03:28:04 AM
Quote from: NathanIW;742970I like that your user name is Akrasia and then you responded to Brad's trolling :D

Ha! I choose my handle for a reason. :p
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RPGPundit on April 20, 2014, 04:25:52 AM
Almost all logical positivists I've ever met are people who absolutely refuse to admit they're engaging in a limited belief paradigm and aren't actually all that interested in truth.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on May 12, 2014, 12:39:25 PM
Now there's one for the analytic philosophers:

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/28
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Dan Vince on May 12, 2014, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;748797Now there's one for the analytic philosophers:

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/28

I laughed.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on May 12, 2014, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;7429442. You are ... somewhat clueless about the history of philosophy.

Okay, believe whatever you want.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 12, 2014, 10:11:32 PM
The Wittgenstein bit particularly slayed (slew?) me.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Chivalric on May 13, 2014, 03:26:11 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;743759Almost all logical positivists I've ever met are people who absolutely refuse to admit they're engaging in a limited belief paradigm and aren't actually all that interested in truth.

Given how concerned they are with verifiability and falsifiability, I'm guessing the truth you wish they were interested in is some sort of woo-woo magic truth or something.  It's hard caring about the truth of poets, theologians and sorcerers when you're busy providing the philosophical underpinning of the type of research that made things like computers and satellites possible.  For all their faults, the logical positivists (and the revision of their ideas by later pragmatists) are onto something that actually works in the real world.

I'm also suspicious that having a "limited belief paradigm" is what you call it when people refuse to believe in magic or aliens or jeebus before they have evidence of it actually existing.

EDIT:  Carnap's admonition to not meta game was awesome.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 13, 2014, 06:24:12 AM
Quote from: Brad;748942Okay, believe whatever you want.

...

Quote from: Brad;742178What

To clarify, only an existentialist would eschew the postmodern label, which makes it all the more laughable as they're just Postmodern 2: Electric Boogaloo.

(and of course Kant isn't a postmodern...yeesh)


Short of Heidegger tricking out a Delorean or Foucault having access to the TARDIS, this is simply not possible. So either you're suggesting that effects can follow from a future cause, or you don't know what you're talking about.

To say nothing of Kant belonging to a school of thought that didn't exist until decades after his death.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on May 13, 2014, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: LibraryLass;748990To say nothing of Kant belonging to a school of thought that didn't exist until decades after his death.

What
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 13, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Brad;749018What

Kant died in 1804, numbnuts. There was barely modernism yet, let alone postmodernism.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 13, 2014, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Brad;749018What

Kant died in 1804. Modernism was not yet even a thing that existed in 1804, let alone postmodernism. It would be like characterizing Jack Kirby as a webcomics author, or Poe as a Beat poet.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: tenbones on May 13, 2014, 05:09:44 PM
The first thing I learned after getting my degree in philosophy was that the mere mention of 'philosophy' as a discussion topic leads to the inevitable circle-jerkery that ensues especially once you go into graduate "studies" of philosophy (that are essentially pointless)

Either that... or the vast majority of people that don't actually understand philosophy don't give a fuck enough about it to care to discuss it.

These comics were...okay.

Knights of the Dinner Table - far better and ironically more philosophical.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on May 13, 2014, 08:14:35 PM
Quote from: Brad;749018What

Indeed. :pundit:
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Akrasia on May 13, 2014, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: tenbones;749143The first thing I learned after getting my degree in philosophy was that the mere mention of 'philosophy' as a discussion topic leads to the inevitable circle-jerkery that ensues especially once you go into graduate "studies" of philosophy (that are essentially pointless)

Cool story, bro! :pundit:
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: James Gillen on May 14, 2014, 12:07:20 AM
"Whereof one cannot kill, therefore one must run away in silence."
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on May 14, 2014, 09:40:39 AM
Quote from: LibraryLass;749138Kant died in 1804. Modernism was not yet even a thing that existed in 1804, let alone postmodernism. It would be like characterizing Jack Kirby as a webcomics author, or Poe as a Beat poet.

And who said Kant was a postmodern..? No one in this thread.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 14, 2014, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: Brad;749296And who said Kant was a postmodern..? No one in this thread.

You.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on May 14, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Brad;749296And who said Kant was a postmodern..? No one in this thread.

I'm sorry. I assumed upthread you were being sarcastic in an effort to look better-informed than Akrasia.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Brad on May 14, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
Quote from: LibraryLass;749416I'm sorry. I assumed upthread you were being sarcastic in an effort to look better-informed than Akrasia.

No, in fact, Kant is one of my favorite philosophers.

I think the main thing I've taken from this thread is that Continentals have a completely different view of historicity of postmodernism than the Analytics. Not to mention vastly different from Socratics.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: aspiringlich on May 14, 2014, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: Brad;749456No, in fact, Kant is one of my favorite philosophers.

I think the main thing I've taken from this thread is that Continentals have a completely different view of historicity of postmodernism than the Analytics. Not to mention vastly different from Socratics.

What do you mean by "view of historicity of postmodernism"?
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Chivalric on May 16, 2014, 09:19:40 PM
He probably just meant history rather than historicity.  Sentence makes perfect sense once you make that change as I doubt Brad actually thinks that certain philosophers didn't exist at all.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: RPGPundit on May 16, 2014, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: NathanIW;748976Given how concerned they are with verifiability and falsifiability, I'm guessing the truth you wish they were interested in is some sort of woo-woo magic truth or something.  

No, what I'm saying is that logical positivists ignore all kinds of things that can't be proven through logic, and more than occasionally have made absurd leaps of faith based on something that makes sense in a closed logic-circuit but does not in fact reflect material reality.

I'm a huge fan of reason, and I don't accept anything I can logically verify as untrue, but to turn that around and suggest that the only things that are true are those that you can absolutely prove through logic is a recipe for a severely dysfunctional human being.  And a severely dysfunctional society! It would discount, for example, a significant amount of modern sciences; which explains why while most scientists are generally strong advocates of the scientific method and critical thinking, very few real scientists are logical positivists these days; the latter are more often found frequenting internet forums and occasionally writing books about debunking bigfoot, about how global warming can't be absolutely proven and therefore must not exist, or about how absolutely all transcendent experiences ever must be a lie because certain verses of a particular denominational interpretation of a single religious book are logically irrational.

RPGPundit
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on June 15, 2014, 11:21:18 AM
And one for the ladies:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/32
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: Marleycat on June 15, 2014, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: LibraryLass;758270And one for the ladies:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/32

That comic is consistently hilarious.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: The Butcher on June 15, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
Quote from: LibraryLass;758270And one for the ladies:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/32

Love it.

Looking forward to the RPGnet shitstorm about it. :D
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: TristramEvans on June 15, 2014, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: LibraryLass;749138Kant died in 1804. Modernism was not yet even a thing that existed in 1804, let alone postmodernism. It would be like characterizing Jack Kirby as a webcomics author, or Poe as a Beat poet.

Poe would have made an awesome beatnik.
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: crkrueger on June 15, 2014, 03:17:41 PM
Quote from: LibraryLass;758270And one for the ladies:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/32

Joan of Arc playing Judith Butler would have been funnier. :D
Title: Dungeons & Dragons & Philosophers
Post by: LibraryLass on June 15, 2014, 08:09:33 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;758304Poe would have made an awesome beatnik.

He would have.