https://www.polygon.com/23850698/dnd-dungeons-dragons-autistic-character-asteria
So WOTC takes a game that cononically featured RL autistic players, runs off the bulk of them by "diversifying" and getting rid of the white male players (many of them were autistic), and now mocking them with "representation."
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, WOTC?!?!
At this point, I'm offended at everything WOTC does. I'm glad I mailed my books back and ask fro a refund earlier this year. (They marked the box "return to sender" and sent it back, but I still tried.)
wamkersofthcoastaretryingtojointhepanderverse
"It permeates all of her actions, but doesn't define her."
The amount of attention being drawn to that label sort of belies the premise, doesn't it?
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 27, 2023, 10:57:55 AM
"It permeates all of her actions, but doesn't define her."
Now if they could just define "define" for us ...
Nothing wrong with having an autistic character in a published work, of course; I can see that being interesting in the game, but the article screams tokenism and virtue signaling. And absence of critical thought.
Quote from: Mishihari on October 27, 2023, 01:56:10 PM
Nothing wrong with having an autistic character in a published work, of course; I can see that being interesting in the game, but the article screams tokenism and virtue signaling. And absence of critical thought.
I see you found all the criteria for being a WOTC Adventure writer...
This article makes her sound more interesting than the blurb I saw on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tyheam_Csedr/status/1717289219431789037/photo/1
"Her father had grand plans for her future, but Asteria defied all his expectations and refused to fit into the mold he tried to place her in. Asteria grew up isolated and independent, resenting the unending pressure placed on her to be someone other than herself."
Yes, we've never seen anything like that in the past few decades of entertainment ... ::)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on October 27, 2023, 03:11:51 PM
This article makes her sound more interesting than the blurb I saw on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tyheam_Csedr/status/1717289219431789037/photo/1
"Her father had grand plans for her future, but Asteria defied all his expectations and refused to fit into the mold he tried to place her in. Asteria grew up isolated and independent, resenting the unending pressure placed on her to be someone other than herself."
Yes, we've never seen anything like that in the past few decades of entertainment ... ::)
this is the penultimate definition of "Strong Hollywood Woman"
QuoteDe Armas herself is autistic,
My money is on Self Diagnosed.
I'm an aspie, ask me how many of my PCs have been aspies? I mean, they WILL end up acting kinda aspie because it's ME runing them but they AREN'T aspies.
Ask me how many times I thought: Wish there were more autistic morons like me on TV, movies, etc?
This is just fetishization and empty virtue signaling without ever having to do shit.
Do they think everyone with autism is like, "Look! This game is garbage. But it has a character with autism. I have autism, so I'll just blindly buy it anyway!"
Quote from: Cathode Ray on October 27, 2023, 06:20:55 PM
Do they think everyone with autism is like, "Look! This game is garbage. But it has a character with autism. I have autism, so I'll just blindly buy it anyway!"
Yes. I can see you too have worked for WOTC in their marketing department.
Quote from: Zalman on October 27, 2023, 12:16:11 PM
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 27, 2023, 10:57:55 AM
"It permeates all of her actions, but doesn't define her."
Now if they could just define "define" for us ...
(https://c.tenor.com/bdDYSfxene8AAAAd/tenor.gif)
Eh...this is old news. Let WotC dnd rot. Ignore it. Let the blue-haired sjdubs lie with the corpse of WotC dnd.
boys i suffer from, nay, am rectally afflicted with, a solid touch of the 'tism, of adhd, of tourettes, of the odd, the ocd, the meglomania and the nymphomania....
i think volo or mirt the money lender might have been my representation.
I don't get it. Does the character know she is autistic? How she was diagnosed? Is there a Detect Autism cleric spell?
Quote from: zer0th on October 27, 2023, 11:44:15 PM
I don't get it. Does the character know she is autistic? How she was diagnosed? Is there a Detect Autism cleric spell?
D&D's current implied setting is Current Year Seattle.
As usual, I'll try to take a pointless meta-culture-war thread and make it relevant to gaming.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on October 27, 2023, 03:11:51 PM
This article makes her sound more interesting than the blurb I saw on X/Twitter:
This site is a bit better for coming up with random characters.
https://www.rangen.co.uk/chars/quickchargen.php
It'd actually work well with the
End of the World series of games, which is a fairly thespy system where you're supposed to play yourself. If you didn't want to do that, then the above random character generator could supply most of what you need to get playing.
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/141786/The-End-Of-The-World-Zombie-Apocalypse
Quote from: Cathode Ray on October 27, 2023, 06:20:55 PM
Do they think everyone with autism is like, "Look! This game is garbage. But it has a character with autism. I have autism, so I'll just blindly buy it anyway!"
Yes.
As an aside, I have never understood any of the hoopla over The Deck of Many Things, and the release of this product has been ballyhooed by various WOTC-focused YouTubers as though it is incredibly important. I don't get it. It is another piece of high magic nonsense that I never enjoyed in my games anyway.
"De Armas herself is autistic, and was able to incorporate a lot of her own experiences into the character."
So basically a self insert a la I Am Not Starfire.
Definitely was Not necessary.
Ever
-Ed c.
Also from that article:
"Today's D&D is more welcoming to everyone"
If they make the claim enough times, do they think people will believe it? Despite modern D&D saying unwelcoming things such as "guys like me can't leave soon enough".
Quote from: Krazz on October 28, 2023, 04:18:42 PM
Also from that article:
"Today's D&D is more welcoming to everyone"
If they make the claim enough times, do they think people will believe it? Despite modern D&D saying unwelcoming things such as "guys like me can't leave soon enough".
I wish I had photos of my games back in the early 80s.
Can someone twitter bully WotC into creating their first Hamas based character in the forgotten realms? Just have them talking about freeing Israelia'kah from the evil Jewkibacka Settlers. I just want to see WotC go full leftard now so their investors either pull out or they change their board.
So she must be excellent at maths but lousy at conversation. Stunning and brave...
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
I want to play a character with tourretts. That'd be fun!
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
There was an article in Kotaku over a year ago (https://kotaku.com/dnd-movie-honor-among-thieves-trailer-marvel-1849345237) that had the subtitle: "D&D is hot right now, largely because queer roleplayers have made it shine" and the statement:
QuoteFor roleplayers of queer identities, D&D is often the "action movie," we'll never get: a place where all the main characters can look and sound and dress like us. And it's not merely the singular escape of one person, but rather the collective escape that we share with others. We can process our feelings about a world that wants us to not exist, yet we persevere. We can learn to form friendships and bonds with people after a lifetime of not having the best versions of ourselves put forward. That is a sense of "found family" that an Avengers movie can only provide by drowning it in headcanon—and even then, we'll be accused of making everything about us when so little is. D&D is when it can be about us.
Make of it what you will.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on October 29, 2023, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
There was an article in Kotaku over a year ago (https://kotaku.com/dnd-movie-honor-among-thieves-trailer-marvel-1849345237) that had the subtitle: "D&D is hot right now, largely because queer roleplayers have made it shine" and the statement:
QuoteFor roleplayers of queer identities, D&D is often the "action movie," we'll never get: a place where all the main characters can look and sound and dress like us. And it's not merely the singular escape of one person, but rather the collective escape that we share with others. We can process our feelings about a world that wants us to not exist, yet we persevere. We can learn to form friendships and bonds with people after a lifetime of not having the best versions of ourselves put forward. That is a sense of "found family" that an Avengers movie can only provide by drowning it in headcanon—and even then, we'll be accused of making everything about us when so little is. D&D is when it can be about us.
Make of it what you will.
Exactly when and where in ANY RPG was the rule preventing them from making it about them at their table?
But that's not enough for the narcicist, EVERYBODY must be made to worship them or at least submit.
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
To be fair, more than a few characters even back in the old-school days were not really "people different from their players", they were more like "versions of me that are still recognizably me but badass in a way I'll never be, in a world that lets me prosper doing that". I've done that more than a few times.
If the point of the character is to demonstrate how characters with the psychological qualities currently grouped under the label "autism spectrum" can still be viable PCs in an RPG, well, more power to that, but if WOTC wants credit for trying to improve the actual real-world lot of real people on that spectrum, they can try to climb onto that horse but it doesn't stand nearly as high as they think it does.
From the late 70s right up to recently, a solid one half of players I know have been on the autism spectrum. Sadly, it's the demographic most hurt by the WOTC "diversity" efforts. In many cases, the white males that play D&D are also those that struggle with autism and social disorders and those are the ones WOTC is most hostile towards. This new character isn't just another "diversity" toon but a direct slap in the face of those they've been shitting on. It's like burning down someone's home and then talking about the homeless problem.
Representation is stupid and appeals to those infested by class theory to the point that they see everyone around them as little nuggets chipped out of a class rather than a person who has traits that an observer might identify with a class. They think of humans as formula units of Humanity and anything else in there us false consciousness to be suppressed or expelled. They don't want to make a mark. They want to be seen. They want to be seen as a unit of a class. They want to work this way and play this way.
When I was a wee sprout my favorite character was a humanoid alien bug creature called Bug who made a *tik* noise when he talk, often used a littlrclike stutter. He was a comic book character and freedom fighter in The Micronauts, a comic book based on an imported toy line. He was an acrobatic character with two fingers and a thumb on each hand, he had compound eyes and antennae and was green and wore green armor. He was a tragic character driven away from his home and a silly character. Current DY comic writers would probably see him as mildly bipolar. Not sure why I liked him. In some ways he was a more "on the nose" rip off of Forager, another acrobatic bug-man character from Jack Kirby's the New Gods
I have little to nothing in common with Bug. I did not like him.because he represented me. Obviously I do not have a three fingered hand or unusual anatomy, nor do I have a speech impediment. I was never exiled from my home, and was not acrobatic. Also. I'm not green.
Current theory about representation says I want short heavy-set, sometimes slovenly, sarcastic, near sighted, nasal voiced baritone type guys and will buy into stuff that givse me such an avatar to link myself too because that proves the creators "saw me". According this I'd be a big fan of The Mole Man from the Fantastic Four.
Current theory is bullshït. I don't see a story as a fun house mirror that should return a distorted reflection of me. I am easily interested in strangers and freaks and troubled people trying to overcome adversity either together or separately. They don't need to be dressed up like a fish hook to get me interested. They just need to be neat, fascinating, engaging, attention drawing content. I LIKE getting to know other people. I do not see their differences from me as defects or some avenue of society oppressing me. I don't want to see some other character adjusted to be more like me. No Captain Stumpymerica or Dr strangemanletporkpie for me please.
Quote from: BadApple on October 27, 2023, 09:13:13 AM
https://www.polygon.com/23850698/dnd-dungeons-dragons-autistic-character-asteria
So WOTC takes a game that cononically featured RL autistic players, runs off the bulk of them by "diversifying" and getting rid of the white male players (many of them were autistic), and now mocking them with "representation."
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, WOTC?!?!
At this point, I'm offended at everything WOTC does. I'm glad I mailed my books back and ask fro a refund earlier this year. (They marked the box "return to sender" and sent it back, but I still tried.)
The idea that you think WOTC has run off white male players is so absurd I wonder if you're trolling or just in that much of a bubble.
Breaking news: There are more white male players playing D&D today than there were in the 1980s and 1990s.
Can I roleplay a character who's black, trans, and also has a terrible stutter? Who's also in a wheelchair with a touch of autism? And who also got a dose of gonorrhea?
Quote from: Mistwell on October 29, 2023, 07:59:19 PM
Quote from: BadApple on October 27, 2023, 09:13:13 AM
https://www.polygon.com/23850698/dnd-dungeons-dragons-autistic-character-asteria
So WOTC takes a game that cononically featured RL autistic players, runs off the bulk of them by "diversifying" and getting rid of the white male players (many of them were autistic), and now mocking them with "representation."
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, WOTC?!?!
At this point, I'm offended at everything WOTC does. I'm glad I mailed my books back and ask fro a refund earlier this year. (They marked the box "return to sender" and sent it back, but I still tried.)
Breaking news: There are more white male players playing D&D today than there were in the 1980s and 1990s.
I'll take "bullshit statistic" for $1000, Alex. There are way more people playing D&D than in the 80s... so, yeah, there will be more white males, because there's more of everybody. There is way
less representation of white males in the game, and WotC is
actively discouraging white males from having any say in the game (including writing modules and working for WotC). So your statement is techincally accurate, and fundamentally wrong, at the same time...
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
I've heard it said that when boys play with Batman, they become Batman and when girls play with Barbie, Barbie becomes them.
If generally true, is it surprising that a woman would create a character that became her?
Quote from: DocJones on October 29, 2023, 11:18:12 PM
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
I've heard it said that when boys play with Batman, they become Batman and when girls play with Barbie, Barbie becomes them.
If generally true, is it surprising that a woman would create a character that became her?
So you are admitting that, now that more women are writing the game and modules, they are changing the nature of the game and the expected playstyle to one not as usual for male players?
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on October 29, 2023, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Almost_Useless on October 29, 2023, 10:54:13 AM
Anybody else think it's a little weird that a game centered around pretending you're someone else is being taken over by people who absolutely have to see people exactly like them?
There was an article in Kotaku over a year ago (https://kotaku.com/dnd-movie-honor-among-thieves-trailer-marvel-1849345237) that had the subtitle: "D&D is hot right now, largely because queer roleplayers have made it shine" and the statement:
QuoteFor roleplayers of queer identities, D&D is often the "action movie," we'll never get: a place where all the main characters can look and sound and dress like us. And it's not merely the singular escape of one person, but rather the collective escape that we share with others. We can process our feelings about a world that wants us to not exist, yet we persevere. We can learn to form friendships and bonds with people after a lifetime of not having the best versions of ourselves put forward. That is a sense of "found family" that an Avengers movie can only provide by drowning it in headcanon—and even then, we'll be accused of making everything about us when so little is. D&D is when it can be about us.
Make of it what you will.
Yeah I'm not DM'ing a dude getting railed by another dude. I run my campaigns more like JRR Tolkein not Goerge RR Martin.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on October 29, 2023, 08:17:47 PM
Can I roleplay a character who's black, trans, and also has a terrible stutter? Who's also in a wheelchair with a touch of autism? And who also got a dose of gonorrhea?
You can play whoever you want petal.
Quote from: Garry G on October 30, 2023, 05:56:53 PM
You can play whoever you want petal.
Nonsense! You can play
whatever you roll up!
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 31, 2023, 03:07:54 AM
Nonsense! You can play whatever you roll up!
And I want to roll up...
in a wheelchair! (va-dump-KSSSH!)
Okay, that was terrible, I apologize.
Quote from: Mistwell on October 29, 2023, 07:59:19 PM
Quote from: BadApple on October 27, 2023, 09:13:13 AM
https://www.polygon.com/23850698/dnd-dungeons-dragons-autistic-character-asteria
So WOTC takes a game that cononically featured RL autistic players, runs off the bulk of them by "diversifying" and getting rid of the white male players (many of them were autistic), and now mocking them with "representation."
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, WOTC?!?!
At this point, I'm offended at everything WOTC does. I'm glad I mailed my books back and ask fro a refund earlier this year. (They marked the box "return to sender" and sent it back, but I still tried.)
The idea that you think WOTC has run off white male players is so absurd I wonder if you're trolling or just in that much of a bubble.
Breaking news: There are more white male players playing D&D today than there were in the 1980s and 1990s.
It has run some off and some of their people spout openly anti-white sentiments. That is a clear fact. You can do a weird distortion of that if you like. I suppose when some of their more Hamas supporting cast starts spouting similar sentiments about some other folks out there your point of view is going to be a whole lot less flippant.
But with regards to an autistic Paladin....I am not up to date on every way Autism affects people, but it seems like its going to be one big giant hit on charisma...the defining trait for Paladins.... I could see an Autistic barbarian or fighter, but never, ever, ever a paladin. I also have some trouble seeing anyone with autism going down into a dark dungeon where it goes from very quiet to thunderous cacophony with traps, combat, surprise monsters, etc.
I do think LOTS of people make PCs that are IDEALIZED mirrors of themselves. I do not understand why you make a copy of yourself with the same major flaws and somehow turn those flaws into secret superpowers.
Quote from: oggsmash on October 31, 2023, 10:42:25 AM
But with regards to an autistic Paladin....I am not up to date on every way Autism affects people, but it seems like its going to be one big giant hit on charisma...the defining trait for Paladins.... I could see an Autistic barbarian or fighter, but never, ever, ever a paladin. I also have some trouble seeing anyone with autism going down into a dark dungeon where it goes from very quiet to thunderous cacophony with traps, combat, surprise monsters, etc.
I do think LOTS of people make PCs that are IDEALIZED mirrors of themselves. I do not understand why you make a copy of yourself with the same major flaws and somehow turn those flaws into secret superpowers.
A Wizard, seccluded in his tower doing his research endelssly because the spell doesn't make sense, fuck magic doesn't make sense! Why does it work? How? Why can't he spam the same spell all day long? Why does he "forget" it once used? Why does he need to re-learn it after sleeping? Why can't he learn it if he doesn't sleep?
The spell he's trying to perfect? Cone of silence, he wants it to only lower the volume of sounds above certain threshold but not others.
I have feet callouses, when can I be seen? :'( WotC gatekeeps against me.
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 31, 2023, 08:13:16 AM
And I want to roll up... in a wheelchair! (va-dump-KSSSH!)
You as a player are most welcome to arrive in whatever means of transport necessary to reach the game table.
But if you want your character to be in a wheelchair, you just have to roll 3d6 down the line and get 3 strength, dexterity and constitution like everyone else who wants to qualify for the wheelchair character class.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 31, 2023, 09:38:09 PM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 31, 2023, 08:13:16 AM
And I want to roll up... in a wheelchair! (va-dump-KSSSH!)
You as a player are most welcome to arrive in whatever means of transport necessary to reach the game table.
But if you want your character to be in a wheelchair, you just have to roll 3d6 down the line and get 3 strength, dexterity and constitution like everyone else who wants to qualify for the wheelchair character class.
I'd let the warchair, but it would have zero impact on the game, none. If he gets pushed prone, he gets up immediately when he "stands up". Idiots can do whatever they want, but I'm not changing the rules nor will I create new rules just for one mentally retarded mongoose who wants to be special.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 31, 2023, 09:38:09 PMBut if you want your character to be in a wheelchair, you just have to roll 3d6 down the line and get 3 strength, dexterity and constitution like everyone else who wants to qualify for the wheelchair character class.
Can't I at least use the 4d6-drop-highest method?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on October 31, 2023, 10:46:38 PMI'm not changing the rules nor will I create new rules just for one mentally retarded mongoose who wants to be special.
No new rules necessary. The character having a Strength, Dexterity and Constitution of 3 would simulate it well enough.
Quote from: Stephen TannhauserCan't I at least use the 4d6-drop-highest method?
No. 3d6 in order. As I say to my kids about dinner, you get what you get and you don't get upset.
Of course, Str 5 or less means you can only be a magic-user; Dex 5 or less, only a cleric; Con 5 or less, only an illusionist. So if you have two or more stats of 5 or less, you can't be any character class at all. But you
can be a Str/Dex/Con 3 guy who's 0-level and always will be. In a wheelchair. Roll on!
Quote from: oggsmash on October 31, 2023, 10:42:25 AM
I do think LOTS of people make PCs that are IDEALIZED mirrors of themselves. I do not understand why you make a copy of yourself with the same major flaws and somehow turn those flaws into secret superpowers.
In my decades of gaming, I have known a lot of nerdy, weak guys who often played nerdy, weak wizards where their obscure obsessive knowledge gave them arcane powers.
I don't really want to delve into the psychology of why, but it seems pretty clear that it's much like an idealized mirror. Personally, I've always varied a lot in the characters I play - which might come from being a GM early. But I don't judge people for how their character is compared to them. They can play whoever they want in an elfgame.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on October 31, 2023, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 31, 2023, 09:38:09 PM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 31, 2023, 08:13:16 AM
And I want to roll up... in a wheelchair! (va-dump-KSSSH!)
You as a player are most welcome to arrive in whatever means of transport necessary to reach the game table.
But if you want your character to be in a wheelchair, you just have to roll 3d6 down the line and get 3 strength, dexterity and constitution like everyone else who wants to qualify for the wheelchair character class.
I'd let the warchair, but it would have zero impact on the game, none. If he gets pushed prone, he gets up immediately when he "stands up". Idiots can do whatever they want, but I'm not changing the rules nor will I create new rules just for one mentally retarded mongoose who wants to be special.
Remember back when your PC was special through entertaining roleplay quirks, and not bizarre fetish pandering?
These idiots make kender look good in comparison.
Quote from: jhkim on November 01, 2023, 02:19:56 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on October 31, 2023, 10:42:25 AM
I do think LOTS of people make PCs that are IDEALIZED mirrors of themselves. I do not understand why you make a copy of yourself with the same major flaws and somehow turn those flaws into secret superpowers.
In my decades of gaming, I have known a lot of nerdy, weak guys who often played nerdy, weak wizards where their obscure obsessive knowledge gave them arcane powers.
I don't really want to delve into the psychology of why, but it seems pretty clear that it's much like an idealized mirror. Personally, I've always varied a lot in the characters I play - which might come from being a GM early. But I don't judge people for how their character is compared to them. They can play whoever they want in an elfgame.
High levels of knowledge/intelligence are in fact useful (and where learning magic is involved they are super powers). Your example simply reinforces my point and in no way contradicts it....was that your intent?
Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 01, 2023, 09:09:21 AM
Remember back when your PC was special through entertaining roleplay quirks, and not bizarre fetish pandering?
These idiots make kender look good in comparison.
Hell. Remember when your PC was special through roleplay and not two dozen class tricks.
QuoteBut with regards to an autistic Paladin....I am not up to date on every way Autism affects people, but it seems like its going to be one big giant hit on charisma...the defining trait for Paladins....
That depends how you define Charisma I guess.
It's more than social skill - more like the natural force of self. And of course that also depends on level of spectrum. But I can totally see let's say using 3,5 - autistic sorcerer with 18 Cha, but like -10 to all social roles due to autism, or something.
"First you get the pronouns, then you get the wheelchair, then you get the power!" - Tony Montana
Quote from: zer0th on October 27, 2023, 11:44:15 PM
I don't get it. Does the character know she is autistic? How she was diagnosed? Is there a Detect Autism cleric spell?
....and is she gay and lame?
Quote from: Trond on November 12, 2023, 09:17:28 PM
Quote from: zer0th on October 27, 2023, 11:44:15 PM
I don't get it. Does the character know she is autistic? How she was diagnosed? Is there a Detect Autism cleric spell?
....and is she gay and lame?
Is she gay? Yes. In this book, she's in love with a gorgon sister. This contrived bullshit representation romance makes her lame. So yes again.