Quote from: Jaeger on December 11, 2022, 08:29:56 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
I'd think Paizo's strategy should be obvious.  Wait for OneD&D to come out and then release Pathfinder Classic, going back to the original but tightening up in a couple places.

I personally believe that Baizuo is creatively bankrupt and psychologically incapable of making such a shift.

That, and the fact that they are pot-invested in PF2. No way they abandon that baby mid-stream...

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 11, 2022, 06:37:32 PM
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I'm not dismissing it. I think they will try and fail spectacularly because table top RPGs are not video games. I can (and have) made my own systems. I don't need WOTC to play my 2nd edition D&D. They might gather a few bucks from quality of life elements in their online apps for the current edition, but I doubt this is going to be a wild success like they imagine it.

They are not, but the current generation of 5e 'story hour' theatre kids run the game like it is one.

The DnDone/OneVTT ecosystem is being purpose built for the new cool kids. WotC has long since told the old guard that they don't need them any more.

WotC is making a bet: That all the new 'fans' that have come to the game recently will allow them to ignore the 'old school' crowd that they tried to bring back into the fold with 5e.

I am of the opinion that in the short run that bet will come through, as all the cool kids will run to the new shiny. But in the long term; I think that there is real opportunity for a company that is willing to emphasize live play at the table.

Also there is the fact that WotC is terminally riddled with corporate cancer...

And yet, WotC is out there making Paizo look flat fucking sane by comparison.

Yes, that's what every goddamn gamer has been aching for, WotC: microtransactions in our fucking RPGs.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 12, 2022, 11:43:49 AM
And yet, WotC is out there making Paizo look flat fucking sane by comparison.

Yes, that's what every goddamn gamer has been aching for, WotC: microtransactions in our fucking RPGs.

True, but WotC has D&D, and the market leader position...

In a sane world all the 4e fuckery should have permanently soured the fanbase against WotC; Yet when 5e dropped they all came running back as fast as they could, begging for more; Because D&D.

RPG fans love, love, love, love, their first mover IP.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on December 12, 2022, 07:36:36 AM
So, basically, WotC wants to turn D&D into a video game? They may be able to make enough profit from such a shift, but I doubt they will be able to keep the majority of their player base, many of whom will probably quit playing ttrpgs altogether. Other companies could conceivably benefit from WotC's move, but I doubt it will be Paizo. However, it could be a boon for OSR or perhaps for Free League's Year Zero Engine.

With 4th Edition, they tried to fend off their video game competition.  Now they want to "become" their own video game competition.

Is WotC going to make their own VTT?

I ask because a few weeks before they announced One D&D, DriveThruRPG and Roll20 announced that they were merging their companies. So, they are either trying to make a company that is big enough to survive the loss of D&D users, or they are trying to make a more valuable company that will collect the most money when Hasbro buys them out.

Wouldn't surprise me to see either (a) WotC buys DTRPG/Roll20 or (b) DTRPG/Roll20 makes Pathfinder 5E.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 12, 2022, 12:36:29 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 12, 2022, 11:43:49 AM
And yet, WotC is out there making Paizo look flat fucking sane by comparison.

Yes, that's what every goddamn gamer has been aching for, WotC: microtransactions in our fucking RPGs.

True, but WotC has D&D, and the market leader position...

In a sane world all the 4e fuckery should have permanently soured the fanbase against WotC; Yet when 5e dropped they all came running back as fast as they could, begging for more; Because D&D.

RPG fans love, love, love, love, their first mover IP.

Brand loyalty in this market is so stupid. The corpos don't care about you, so make your own games or patronize indies. Stop encouraging the corpos!

Quote from: oggsmash on December 11, 2022, 12:38:36 PM
  Sounds like the same sorts of great plans around Star wars, Lord of the Rings, Marvel, etc.   I also suspect there will be a big concern around "sending the right messages" wrapped in there as well.  Fuck these people.

In fairness, execs seem to believe sufficient woke can create a "must buy this or I'll be considered unclean" mindset.

Actual results in the field are mixed. MCU has had some successes with this, Black Panther, some modern successes, Captain Marvel, and some failures, Wakanda Forever.

I do not think this is true in D&D. In fact, I think D&D as a brand is bad for a company like Hasbro to hold because it cannot be monetized long term like most corporate brands are.

But much like "you can't get fired for buying IBM" right now you can't get fired for going woke or over monetizing.

Quote from: Zelen on December 11, 2022, 02:14:03 PM
I expect to see microtransaction art packs for character portraits/icons in DNDone, with limited/no support for custom content.

If you're a Fortune 500 or 1000 company with a brand you want monetized, anything DIY around it is the enemy.

Adventures, 3rd party materials without insane royalties (not DMs Guild level), custom art not sold through you...all the enemy.

But, that is what makes D&D more than a fad. D&D has been a fad twice before and survived. Hasbro is going to try and make the third, and biggest, fad last forever as a cash cow.

Quote from: oggsmash on December 11, 2022, 02:40:44 PM
  Seem to be following the modern corporate model of donning the woke cloak and then doing everything you can to bleed customers dry... has the built in advantage of being able to label detractors as racists (which in the lexicon of modern talk is the WORST THING A PERSON CAN BE) to quell criticism.  Yay.

Woke is the current "moral" shield for immoral acts that all they way back to Adam Smith were recognized as fatal to free markets.

What is interesting is that woke is the most successful shield. Speculations about why probably belong in a different area.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 11, 2022, 08:29:56 PM

I am of the opinion that in the short run that bet will come through, as all the cool kids will run to the new shiny. But in the long term; I think that there is real opportunity for a company that is willing to emphasize live play at the table.

Also there is the fact that WotC is terminally riddled with corporate cancer...

I think the real miscalculation is chasing cool kids is always a short term game. If you do it in a way that doesn't destroy your baseline fan base you can reap a nice bonus when the cool fad comes around to you. If you do it in a way that destroys your baseline you need to make damn sure what you make now makes up for those lost future cash flows and funds something to replace them.

Quote from: PulpHerb on December 12, 2022, 03:30:15 PM
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I think the real miscalculation is chasing cool kids is always a short term game. If you do it in a way that doesn't destroy your baseline fan base you can reap a nice bonus when the cool fad comes around to you. If you do it in a way that destroys your baseline you need to make damn sure what you make now makes up for those lost future cash flows and funds something to replace them.

That is the bet WotC is counting on - that in the past 8 years so many new players have jumped on the kool kids 'DnD' gravy train, that they can leave the old guard in the dust and barely register the loss...

Quote from: PulpHerb on December 12, 2022, 03:30:15 PM
...Brand loyalty in this market is so stupid. The corpos don't care about you, so make your own games or patronize indies. Stop encouraging the corpos!

But it is there.

Aside from licensed IP like Conan, LoTR,  and Star Wars, every profitable niche in RPG's has been taken and occupied by the 90's at the latest.

That's why to go against WotC you can't count on getting lucky like baizuo did - you need to be prepared to play a very long game.

And even then you have to cross your fingers that the people at WotC don't get replaced with competent ones that can turn the game around with a new edition...

Hmmm...now a tech recruiter contacting me about working for WotC is starting to make more sense. Honestly IDGAF if they want to make D&D lunchboxes and hoodies or whatever, that's what you do with successful brands. The issue is the MAIN PRODUCT is starting to suck royal ass. If they actually had a good version of the game I wanted to play, I'd probably be a lot more apt to get a t-shirt with the logo emblazoned on it, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that stuff now. I think this is just a last ditch to squeeze consumers for as much as they can get before people eventually stop caring about the brand entirely. Or maybe it turns simply into a brand, and the game disappears...there are a lot of people who are spending billions for what amounts to nostalgia with zero intention of ever actually using the product (a lot of retrogaming stuff, Star Wars figures, whatever).

I did see some job postings with WotC recently. Jobs on what I can only assume is part of their digital strategy. I would never myself nor recommend anyone I know work with WotC, with how things have degenerated there -- Probably a good idea to shed that hostile corporate culture if you want meaningfully talented people to work for you.

Quote from: Zelen on December 12, 2022, 08:52:52 PM
I did see some job postings with WotC recently. Jobs on what I can only assume is part of their digital strategy. I would never myself nor recommend anyone I know work with WotC, with how things have degenerated there -- Probably a good idea to shed that hostile corporate culture if you want meaningfully talented people to work for you.

The job I was approached with was a project management position for what I understood to be some sort of digital gaming platform. The pay was pathetic for the responsibilities and required experience/qualifications, so maybe they're just trying to appeal to gamers. I have heard places like EA also do not pay a decent wage when compared to industry-standards, so good luck to them trying to find someone competent I suppose. The guy from my PhD program I graduated with actually worked in the industry in Austin and he was banking, so there's money to be made, just not at WotC apparently.

How is a make your-own-adventure-kit a brand anyways? The GM makes or breaks the game, so D&D lunch box makes as littles sense as a "insert 3d printer brand here" lunch box.